Casting, Coming over the top..... bleah

[yun]

How's it goin' all?
I was wondering if anyone had any tips to help coming over the top on the ball. Recently I've been finding that I've been fighting this, and I don't know what I've been doing different from before - and it doesn't happen all the time either... it just seems to appear from time to time. I'll be firin' shots straight to the pin on one hole, then i'll pull a 9 iron 20 yards from the pin, or slicin' my drive hard. It's drivin' me nuts!! Help!

Yun

[Snoopy]

I also do that a lot..when I do, the next shot I make sure I check my alignment, especially having my shoulders parallel to target line rather than open (tilting a little to the right instead of reaching out with the right hand to grip the club). I also make sure I make a long, slow backswing to ensure that I complete my turn, therefore enabling the club to come from the inside. I also try not to rush the downswing -- I try to feel a brief "pause" at the top of my backswing while initiating the downswing with a move of the left knee. Hope that helps!

[Chieflongtee]

In his little red book Harvey Pennick suggested practicing hitting towards the toe of the club for a while to cure the over the top move.

[Curious George]

A complete turn is important, so is keeping your right elbow in tight. Try doing 3/4 swings where the right elbow always stays tucked in. Another thing you can do is move your right foot back a few inches (a closed stance) so that you get the feel of coming from inside to out. Go to a driving range and force yourself to shoot at 1 or 2 pm (noon is your target), and see if you can generate a draw. Do this until the "feel" is there, and then try to replicate in normal stance.

If you can't generate a draw with your foot back (ex: it pushes out), then your face is not closing.

Just a thought.

[Andru]

If your swing is nicely from the inside on most occasions and you tend to come over the top once in a while. It's usually rythm.

You're probably swinging too hard. You hit the ball with the golf club not a golf swing.

Body moves slow, club head moves fast.

Cheers

[curls]

Originally posted by Curious George
Another thing you can do is move your right foot back a few inches (a closed stance) so that you get the feel of coming from inside to out. Go to a driving range and force yourself to shoot at 1 or 2 pm (noon is your target), and see if you can generate a draw. Do this until the "feel" is there, and then try to replicate in normal stance.

If you can't generate a draw with your foot back (ex: it pushes out), then your face is not closing.

Just a thought.

Regarding this... I was trying this a few weeks ago (dropping the back foot back about 2-3"), and it did help immensely. But, only for one round. I corrected my stance to normal, but find myself hooking the ball a lot, or at minimum, drawing EVERYTHING, very severely.

Since my feet are in line with the target, and I am obviously getting my body around enough (?), what is causing this draw and/or hook? Is my clubface possibly "too" closed and causing everything to draw? If I was to open by clubface a few degrees, but swing as I've been swinging, would this possibly negate the effects of the hook?

Another problem I've been having is that is hit my driver and/or irons into the ground a bit too early (like 1-3" before the ball, even with a normally palced ball in relatin to my stance). Is this a tempo problem?

Thanks for any help,
~Eric

[faldo]

I can tell you for sure that you should never be hitting the ground before the ball, except in the sand

The PRO's all take their divots AFTER hitting the ball. They drive the ball into the ground, then the natural loft of the clubface drives the ball out with backspin. That's the only way to put spin on the ball & why most of us never accomplish it, even occasionly.

Either your clubs are too long for you (possible)
or
You lift your body up on the backswing & then struggle to return to the exact same plane that you started on (likely).....

Think smooth, smooth, smooth

Tempo is probably not the cause.

My 2$.

Good luck,

[Curious George]

CURLS:

You know, we can't fix the problem through words. Someone (like a pro) watching your swing can fix it much faster.

A friend of mine had that hitting the ground too soon problem. His ball position (where it was in relation to his feet) was terrible: far too forward on all irons. Make sure the ball is middle of your stance for your 9 through 7 (even 6)...also beware your eyes can fool you: what looks to be in the middle is often forward.

The other problem I've had with hitting the ground first was steep angles of attack. If your takeaway is not slow, low and wide (as described above), and you take the club away with your hands/arms instead, your club will come in quite steeply and strike the ground too soon. This can also happen if you don't transfer your weight and stay on your back leg too much. It can also happen from poor ball position.

Also keep your stance the same (as faldo mentions) so you don't raise and lower with your knees too much.

The consistent hook/draw problem means you ARE coming from the inside and you are closing the face enough. The problem could be from coming too far inside (which is less likely) or closing the face too much (which is more likely). See a pro about a good grip, or "weaken" your grip (you can learn what strong/weak means from books/videos too). This MIGHT turn it into a nice draw.

As you can tell, quick fixes over the internet won't necessarily diagnose the problem. By listening to hackers over the internet (I'm referring to myself, no one else), you may be ingraining problems that will take time to undo. You would be smarter (and will enjoy the game, and save money at courses) by investing in lessons or swing analysis.

[Andru]

Curls

If you closed your stance and everything was working well. Why did you change back to a 'normal' stance. Three time winner in 2003 Kenny perry, Rocco Mediate have fixed closed stances.

If you hit the ball where you want it with a closed stance do so. Golf is about getting the ball in the hole not looking like a leadbetter student.

One thing you didn't mention was the ball flight.

Is your Ball..

A) Starting left and hooking left
B) Starting straight and hooking left
C) Starting right and hooking left.

Cheers

[curls]

My ball does both A and B, but never has done C.

I did try reverting back to the closed stance but it produced the same results. Wierd, eh?

Also, I am planning on getting some lessons next spring or maybe as a Christmas gift from my fiancee. I can't afford them this summer and won't have enough time to practice the new techniques this fall anyways.

Thanks for some of the tips, though!
~Eric

[Andru]

Eric

Next time you're at the range try creating the C ball flight.

Forget about positions and stances just set up and use your talents.

Easy stuff. Tee up a ball and use your 5 iron. then move up to the big stick.

1) Find a target down range
2) Set up to hit at this target
3) First ball, pull it dead left
4) Second ball push it dead right. Don't aim right, aim straight route the club on the way down to push it right.

Tryt o find the middle somewhere. You'll be surprised at how well this works.

[curls]

Originally posted by Andru
Eric

Next time you're at the range try creating the C ball flight.

Forget about positions and stances just set up and use your talents.

Easy stuff. Tee up a ball and use your 5 iron. then move up to the big stick.

1) Find a target down range
2) Set up to hit at this target
3) First ball, pull it dead left
4) Second ball push it dead right. Don't aim right, aim straight route the club on the way down to push it right.

Tryt o find the middle somewhere. You'll be surprised at how well this works.

I'll try that. Should I try the 5 iron until I find the middle "sweet spot", and then try the same thing with the driver? Or alternate? Or, I guess, it doens't really matter.

Thanks.
~Eric

[Andru]

I would start with whatever club you hit best. For me it's the 5 iron you may find the 7 better. You should for sure work up to the driver.

If you've never hit a dead push or a draw that starts right then curls the push to the right shot will feel really strange. It's actually closer to the feeling you want in a swing.

One other thing lay a club along the target line about 3 feet in front of your teed up ball this is a good guide. to help you hit left and right. Then hopefully right down the middle.!

Cheers

Let me know how it goes

[Curious George]

Definitely C is what you should be aiming for. The others mean either over the top, with closed face, or straight, with closed face.

[natgolfer]

Assuming grip, stance and setup are all OK, the over the top motion that most of start with, can be cured, in time. It is very difficult to do, if you just hit balls. As your mind controls your body you must change your subconscious programming from outside in to inside out. How?

Using a full length mirror stand perpendicular to it. Go to the top of your perfect backswing and stop dead. Now, looking at the image in the mirror, very, very slowly, lower your arms vertically downward until your right/trail elbow touches your right/trail hip. This is your first perfect start to the downswing and now that you know how this first move of your downswing should feel, you just have to repeat, repeat, repeat.

This correct motion should be repeated in slow motion as many times a day as you can, for as many days as you can. The new downswing start will eventually filter in and an increasing number of inside path shots will start happening.

If you are at a range and have time, repeat the slow motion swing 4 times consciously working on the correct motion, and then hit four balls thinking of something other than a swing key-ie., "Mary had a little lamb..." Repeat this set of 8 balls, four times(32 balls in total) and take a break. In reading about the brain, I learned that for maximum retention to take place, 80%, the correct motion must be repeated a minimum of 4 times. Repeating the correct motion 1000 times, results in the same percentage retention. Taking 4 swings not thinking about the arms dropping down, is what you must do on the course while playing, as conscious thoughts or consciously using swing keys will always result in less that ideal performance.

The above may sound unorthodox, but, and I speak from experince, it works. No-one can learn a new dance step at full speed, the first time. You learn it slowly, one step at a time, and then increase the speed of it. Why should your golf swing be any different?

BTW: If your club head path is on line and the club face is square to the line at impact, your ball will hook left, not go straight. An inside path with a square club face will hook even more. Ideally, you want the club face square at separation, not impact. Because the ball is on the club face for approximately 3/4 of an inch, the slight rotation of a square impact position, will result in a closed separation position and you will hook. The perfect impact position is a 3 degree inside path to the ball, with a 2 degree open club face. This ball will start slightly right of your target and curve back to your target. This is a true DRAW. Everything else is a hook.

[Andru]

Nat

That's a sound strategy for some, others prefer to learn at a running pace. Not everyone is the same. I've taken dance lessons with my wife and had to switch to private lessons because we learned better at full speed. I needed to hear the music at full speed to feel the rhythm.

Some people learn with mechanics others learn with feel.

I wasted a year of my golfing life trying to groove mechanics. It didn't work. It's funny I learned how to hit a tennis ball moving at 75-85 MPH with top spin, cross court without grooving a swing it happend naturally. I simply applied the same hand eye coordination to golf and I've never had better control of the ball.

Once you learn how the club face is oriented in the palm of your hand you can do anything with the ball because the club head becomes an extention of your hand. So if you can play hand ball, tennis, hockey, squash, ping pong or any ball and stick sport you can play golf quite well.

over the top can work if you choose, ask Bruce Lietske.

[howdy doody]

hey fellas this is my first post
talking about swings i just taped myself last week for the first time and i must say it helps me TREMENDOUSLY to understand what i am doing wrong. i was coming over the top because i was casting my shoulders first but everyone is different. buy or borrow a camara and record yourself, study your swing on pause and you can move forward or back one space to see what you are doing. Golf is expensive but this is the best investment you can make when it comes to understanding what you are doing wrong. i took four lessons before i taped myself and now i realize that had i taped myself in the first lesson i would not have wasted money on three of the lessons. my instructor could not help me understand what i was doing wrong but the visual aid of the camera made it click in just a few minutes, now i can truly change my swing

[RobC]

I've often tried to concentrate on keeping my back shoulder (for you, the right) as stationary as possible during the entire swing to help keep everything in order. This simple, single thought works for me.

Here's something else to check out: http://www.golfhound.com/instruction...s.phtml?id=205

[LobWedge]

I'm not a big fan of training aids in general because they tend to make use of items that you attach to your body or are some kind of device that you can't actually hit a ball with. The heavy clubs (Momentus, etc.) or Medicus type hinged clubs get close to the real thing by allowing ball contact but can mess up your feel.

One very intriguing item that lets you use your own clubs to hit balls is called the Inside Approach (www.insideapproach.com).

Basically, if you swing from over the top, the foam tube gets in the way and you knock it off of the stand. It's supposed to help promote a sweeping inside path under the tube. I'm seriously thinking of getting one. (maybe Santa will bring me one)

[Rough Stuff]

The Inside Approach looks like a practical thing, but whats with those ads where Jack Nicklaus comes on to improve his game...that's really weird.