PGA Championship Ruling

[BC MIST]

Corey Pavin hit a bunker shot on 6 that began rolling towards a hazard, but along the line the ball was rolling was a rake. His caddie picked up the rake and the ball went in the hazard. Tim Herron hit a chip that rolled on a similar line towards the rake which had been replaced. The ball stuck under the rake and when the rake was lifted, the ball stayed at rest.

The commentators said that if Herron's ball had rolled into the hazard, after being at rest, that he could just replace it.

The final results were not shown, but:
1. Pavin broke 1-2 which says that the player or his caddie are not allowed to do anything to influence the movement of the ball. (2 strokes), plus the water hazard drop for a total of 3 strokes.

2. Herron incurred no penalty, but, if his ball had rolled into the hazard, after being at rest, would he not incur a penalty for going into the hazard, rather than just replacing the ball, contrary to what the commentators said?

[jvincent]

This is covered under Rule 24.

24-1. Movable Obstruction

A player may take relief without penalty from a movable obstruction as follows:

a. If the ball does not lie in or on the obstruction, the obstruction may be removed. If the ball moves, it must be replaced, and there is no penalty provided that the movement of the ball is directly attributable to the removal of the obstruction. Otherwise, Rule 18-2a applies.

Since the ball was at rest and then moved as a direct result of moving the obstruction (rake) it should be replaced.

I didn't check the decisions to see if this scenario was covered in the decisions but the rule would seem to cover it exactly.

[BC MIST]

This is covered under Rule 24.



Since the ball was at rest and then moved as a direct result of moving the obstruction (rake) it should be replaced.

I didn't check the decisions to see if this scenario was covered in the decisions but the rule would seem to cover it exactly.

What you describe here is not the hypothetical situation I outlined above. It is true that if the balls moves when the rake is moved, it must be replaced. But, if the ball remains at rest when the rake is removed and then rolls into the hazard some time later before he makes his next stroke, the ball is in the hazard, subject to penalty, versus being replaced on the point from which it was at rest.

[jvincent]

OK I get what you mean now.

I thought you meant it was at rest when it was against the rake and rolled when the rake was moved.

I agree, if the ball is at rest after the rake is moved and subsequently rolls, then he would be subject to a penalty.

[spidey]

if his ball had rolled into the hazard, after being at rest, would he not incur a penalty for going into the hazard, rather than just replacing the ball, contrary to what the commentators said?

I don't think so.

Note to 24-1:
Note: If a ball to be dropped or placed under this Rule is not immediately recoverable, another ball may be substituted.

Also: 24-1(a):

If the ball moves, it must be replaced, and there is no penalty provided that the movement of the ball is directly attributable to the removal of the obstruction.

[gbower]

I see that Pavin took an 8 on the 6th hole so if his bunker shot was his second shot into the hazard he would have been hitting 4 to the green and two putt plus 2 penalty strokes would make his 8.
As far as Herron's ball, if it started moving after it had been placed and remained for a time and then moved I'm sure he would then have the hazard penalty applied. I'd really be wanting to hit the shot as soon as possible.

[BC MIST]

I don't think so.

Note to 24-1:
Note: If a ball to be dropped or placed under this Rule is not immediately recoverable, another ball may be substituted.

Also: 24-1(a):

If the ball moves, it must be replaced, and there is no penalty provided that the movement of the ball is directly attributable to the removal of the obstruction.

When the rake was moved, the ball DID NOT MOVE. Therefore, the ball was AT REST and any later movement cannot be attributed to the lifting of the rake. This is similar to replacing my ball on #10 at Greensmere, lifting the marker, walking to the opposite side of the hole to line up the putt, and then the ball rolls down the slope. I don't get to place it back because the ball was at rest for a significant period of time.

Herron incurred no penalty, but, if his ball had rolled into the hazard, after being at rest, would he not incur a penalty for going into the hazard, rather than just replacing the ball, contrary to what the commentators said?The assumption is that the ball has been at rest for at least a few seconds before it rolls into the hazard.

[spidey]

When the rake was moved, the ball DID NOT MOVE.

Ah, the nuance escaped me. I didn't see the telecast.

Herron incurred no penalty, but, if his ball had rolled into the hazard, after being at rest, would he not incur a penalty for going into the hazard, rather than just replacing the ball, contrary to what the commentators said?The assumption is that the ball has been at rest for at least a few seconds before it rolls into the hazard.

Presumably, if his ball moved after being at rest, he should not get relief from the hazard.

If he moved his ball, then he gets to put it back without penalty from the hazard, but with penalty for moving his ball.

Perhaps, even if it was apparently at rest, it was deemed to be moving?

[BC MIST]

Presumably, if his ball moved after being at rest, he should not get relief from the hazard.

If he moved his ball, then he gets to put it back without penalty from the hazard, but with penalty for moving his ball.

Perhaps, even if it was apparently at rest, it was deemed to be moving?

Again, all of this is hypothetical, had his ball rolled into the hazard he could have used the "stroke and distance" part of the rule and dropped the ball at the point from which it initially rolled. After the drop it would have rolled more than 2 club lengths so he would drop/roll, drop/roll and then place the ball on the spot where it hit the ground on the second drop, and if it did not stay there, on the closest spot from which it would NOT roll. This is one of the few occasions where the ball can be dropped CLOSER to the hole that the spot from which relief is going to be taken.