loch march for high-handicapper?

[haligolfer]

Hi,

I'm interested in playing Loch March, but am wondering if it's too tough for my game. I've only been playing for 2 seasons and typically shoot in the 97-103 range. I tend to spray the ball off the tee, but am decent from 100 yards in. I'm OK playing Outaouais, Meadows and Hammond, but Stonebridge killed me. Any advice or comments on Loch March? Are the fairways reasonably forgiving? Thanks!

[jvincent]

Loch March is a lot more forgiving off the tee than Stonebridge.

It has several holes where water is in play but if you miss the fairway on the other holes it's not so bad. Unless you miss by a mile.

Just play from the white or red tees and you'll be fine.

[Weazl]

Don't play from the tips and you'll be ok, its well worth the 65$, gorgeous course.

[mpare]

I don't know how far you hit the ball, but assuming it is not particularly long I would advise playing the shorter tees. You'll have a lot more fun.

[Domo]

I am a new player as well (this is my second season). Typically I shoot around 100.

Played LM for the first time on Friday a.m. from the blues. Had a bad day off the tee, and it turned out to be a loooong day. It looks like there is a lot of room, and if you hit it straight there is. If not, the course is challenging. I found it very difficult when not in the fairway, and depending on the pin locations, even when you are! My buddy, who typically plays around 90 and is a long hitter, was in the same boat and wound up with a triple digit score (in fact the same as me). Maybe the heat did us in - it was already very hot at 8:30 a.m. when we were on #6. Or could have been the earlier bugs (pack some repellent if going out early or if it isn't sunny). Or more likely, we could have just been having a bad day...

All that said, it is one of the nicest public course I've played (haven't been to Stonebridge yet) and well worth the $65. Well kept, some of the nicer looking holes I've seen and despite the beating it laid on me, I am looking forward to getting back for another round.

I say give it a try and simply manage your game and you'll enjoy it.

[jvincent]

I am a new player as well (this is my second season). Typically I shoot around 100.

Played LM for the first time on Friday a.m. from the blues.

That's a good indication that you should have played from the whites.

As you point out, it can be tough from the blues since there are some tough holes from back there. Moving to the whites will take some pressure off hitting driver.

[Domo]

A fair comment. I typically have the length to play the Blues (have done so at Marshes, Emerald Links and Cedarhill, though the latter's blues are more like Whites elsewhere) and play to around 100. Truth be told, I don't think I hit more than 6 drivers after a "hint of what is to come" opener on #1 and a shocker on #5. Would playing the whites take pressure off my 3-wood, 3-h, and 4-h too? It was one of those days where if the tee shot succeeded the approach did not or the pitch/chip went awry.

That said, and as it pertains to you haligolfer, speaking from experience as a rookie golfer on this course, it is good advice to play from the whites on a course that is new to you with guys who don't know it either. Better safe than sorry as they say.

[Tanglegrip]

Loch March is one of the more challenging course in the area, it is usually well conditioned and you will find the greens fast. Marchalls and staff are usually very courteous and friendly.

I played it today with as 25 handicapper and I'm playing to a 16.5. We're both 220 - 250 off the tee and usually pretty straight. We played from the blues and did okay, 94 for me and 100+ for my FC, in other words close to our handicaps.

Like any course you will be penalized for getting off the fairway, or for poor position even if you're in the fairway (#8 is a classic example). You will have some long forced carriers over water (#7 & #13) especially.

If you don't mind the $65 green fee then by all means go for it. There are worse golfers out there playing the course!

As others have indicated play from the whites to start. Look at the hole and decide the best position to be in and then enjoy yourself.

[BillD]

Forgive me for being frank, but all of those posting that are shooting between 94 and 100 have no business playing the blue tees at any course

[haligolfer]

Played from the whites this afternoon. Very nice course, challenging but not brutal. Shot a little over my usual, but not too bad. Definitely some tough holes. Staff were great, and conditions were very good. Cheers.

[GarthM]

Forgive me for being frank, but all of those posting that are shooting between 94 and 100 have no business playing the blue tees at any course

I agree 100%. Unless you can break 90 consistently from the whites, do not move back to the back tees.

[rezadue]

This sort of subject has come up a few times and again I have to diagree. Just becasue someone is a high handicap does not mean he can't hit a driver 200+ yards and just because some is a low handicapper does not make him a bomber.

The High handicap person can easily get his handicap if he can not putt or chip.

And if one does not play from the back tees, one is not forced to use their longer clubs and therefore one does not learn how to hit those clubs.

As well, in some cases playing from the blues can take out some trouble off the tees on certain holes.That being said, there are some tees that don't make sense unless you are an accurate bomber.

I agree 100%. Unless you can break 90 consistently from the whites, do not move back to the back tees.

[Kilroy]

I have to agree with the previous posters. I feel that high handicappers that hit the ball far will get into far more trouble from the back tees at average courses (Cedarhill being an exception). You don't belong on the rear tees if you break 100 only occasionally.

[Marcos]

I believe that you should play within your capacity.We have a system at our club where people tee off according to their scores.If you play 105 and up you play from the advanced tees,if you play beetween 95 and 105 you play from the less advanced tees and so on and so on.Not everyone does this but i have seen a few people that hit it far but not straight play from the more advanced tees.This takes the machoness out of the guys and everyone has a good time and pace of play does not suffer.I am a 13.5 cap and would never play from the back tees because its not my game.My drives are 200 yards but 90% in the fairway and i scramble a lot to score.I think that scoring should be more important than hitting it long and if playing from the appropriate tees helps you become a better player then everyone is a winner.

[rezadue]

Well, in that case allow me to use a real life example of what I mean to contradict your statement:

At the moment I am a 21.3 handicap. Mostly brought on by many chips and putts around the green.

On Friday I played Manderley Central/North Combo. I played from the blue tees.

Central 1- Driver used 15 yards short of the drainage ditch. Dead straight, in the middle of the fairway. Had I played from the white tees, I would surely have been in the water.

From there I hit a 5 wood on the fairway ( right side) leaving me with a 120 yard pitching wedge shot. I pulled that shot into the bunker on the left side of the green. Bunker shot barely made it to the fringe. The pin was on top of a ridge on the left side of the green. I putted too hard and made it down the slope. The putt coming back up was an inch short.

So, it took me two shots to get within 120 yards of the green and another 5 to get in the hole. Double bogey caused solely by the short game. Had I played from the whites, I would have had to take a drop and a penalty stroke.

Central 9 - Driver off the tee , just short of the drainage ditch. Again if I had played from the white tees, I would have been in the ditch for the penalty shot. As it was I hit a 4 iron to the back of the green and 2 putted for par. WooHoo.

North 1- Driver off the tee, pulled slightly to the top of the mound on the left side of the fairway (the one just short of the ditch). Once more, white tees would have meant water. 5 iron back into the fairway, followed by shanked wedge, a thinned wedge to the bushes on the back of the green, penalty drop, a chip on and two putts. For a total of triple bogey. Again 2 shots to get within one hundred yards only to take five strokes and a penalty shot to finish.

These are some exmples of this high handicapper playing from the back tees and benefitting from the back tees.

By playing from back there, I have learned how to hit my long irons and fairway woods from the fairway. I can now try to reach the odd par 5 in two.

My only issues are with my short game, which solely is caused by me thinking score when I get close to the green. If I can learn to turn my brain off, I can and do score much lower. Otherwise when I get around the green it becomes all about what I can get and I screw things up.

I have to agree with the previous posters. I feel that high handicappers that hit the ball far will get into far more trouble from the back tees at average courses (Cedarhill being an exception). You don't belong on the rear tees if you break 100 only occasionally.

[Domo]

Obviously I agree with Rez on this one. I am a high handicapper (26) and my last five rounds have played from the blues. In some cases (Cedarhill, Emerald Links) I am scoring better than I did from the whites. As mentioned, I do have the length to play from the Blues (Driver = 250ish, 5-iron 180ish). Truth be told, it probably helps because my trouble zone is 30-70 yards out, where consistency is tough for me. Moving back, say, 40 yards, gets me to 70-110 yards -much easier for me to rely on.

When you play Marshes, does moving to the whites change your tee selection on the par fives? You'll still use Driver every time (or at least I will).

As a new golfer, a repeatable swing and consistency are my biggest weaknesses. It seems that when the long game is on, the putter is not and vice versa. But I am seeing improvements weekly. Changing my tee box won't help that at all and because I have never been accused of slow pace of play (the starter congratulated our threesome at the turn at LM for our fast play) I don't think I have to change this. My goal, as is Rezadue's, is to learn the game by using all my clubs. I practice frequently (3-4 times/week) but how can I really improve my Driver and 3-wood if I don't use them when playing? Kind of takes the fun out of it, and that's why I play. To challenge myself and have fun doing it.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents from the blue tees. I am certain there are far more that disagree than agree with me...

[Tanglegrip]

Forgive me for being frank, but all of those posting that are shooting between 94 and 100 have no business playing the blue tees at any course

Obviously I disagree since I play from both the blues and whites depending upon the course and how I am playing.

I do know the course fairly well at Loch March having played there 27 times in the last 3 years. I also think that I know my own capabilities. I'm currently a 16.5 handicap and last year was as low as a 12.6. Maybe this doesn't qualify me to play from the blues in your opinion but I do think that each player needs to make the decision on what tees to play based on how they are playing at the time.

My games immediately before this were at Mountain Creek (79 from the whites), Arnprior (87 from the blues, my first time on the course) and Renfrew (90 from the blues). Getting off the tees from the blues was not a problem. I think that being around the corner, in the fairway, 170 from the pin on #12 at Loch demonstrates that fact.

In fact short chips and putts were more the problem as I missed 4 birdie putts on the first 6 holes. If I could putt better my round would have been in the high 80's, maybe still not good enough for you but certainly a round that would have made me very happy. Regardless of whether I play the blue tees or the white tees I'm still going to have to chip and putt better when I get to the green if I want to get into the 80's consistently.

Also as we were a twosome with a foursome in front of us we certainly we're holding anyone up. The couple of times we were off the fairway from the tee we hit provisionals. We do not spend 5 minutes looking for a lost ball, more like 1 - 2 minutes. I finished the round with the same ball I started with, my FC lost 2 (1 in the water on #13).

Playing a course from a different set of tees gives you a different perspective on the course, gives you different shots, and lets you use different clubs. It also gives you a chance to improve the areas of your game that you may not use as much just playing from the forward tees. So for my $65 I prefer the challenge of the blues if I'm getting off the tee well, especially on a course as demanding as Loch March.

Golf is after all a test of a player's skill, obviously you have it in abundance while I am still trying to acquire it.

[BillD]

No i don't have an abundance of talent. Currently sitting at 8.3 handicap. My course, Emerald Links has too much of a spread between blue and whites, roughly 800 yards more from the blues so i dont play from them. I have before but it is not enjoyable for me. What i see far too much of at Emerald are men playing the blue tees who dont have either the length or the ability to play from them. I believe if you are starting to learn the game and you are above a 12 handicap, you should definitely be playing white tees. It will build confidence and there is plenty of time to move back to the blues. Perhaps i should have clarified more in that at many courses the spread between blue and white is not that significant so in those cases it really wouldn't apply. Still, i truly believe that anyone above a 12 handicap should be learning the game from the white tees. Have you never been at a course where the group in front was playing the blues and they couldn't break 100 to save their lives?

[XTOUR]

I agree BillD. I'm a newbie golfer and noticed on some courses that the Blue tees are not that much farther than the whites. I can drive the ball pretty good but I'm inconsistent. Playing from blue tees would intimidate me on some holes just because of having to hit tight fairways if the tees were a good distance back from the whites. But then again it would also teach me course mgt and probably save me some strokes. Rez's comments are also a good example of my game. It depends on the course as to which tees to play from. A higher slope rating should determine it don't you think?

Scott

[BillD]

Bottom line and i guess what i was trying to say is that i have seen far too many instances of a foursome playing blue tees who are spraying the ball everywhere and really holding up the pace of play. I believe you should be a fairly accomplished Golfer before starting to play the blue tees. The game is hard enough from the Whites if you ask me.

[Bullet]

I play high 90's to low 100's. I feel that I learn more from the white tee's then stepping to the back tee's. Golf has a lot to do with course managment. If I feel that my drive could get me in trouble cause of my range, well then I should look at using another club. It's that simple. Don't low handicappers leave the Driver in the bag if they feel it's better managment? White tee's are there for high handicappers. I have played from the blues when I'm playing with low handicappers and I'm not holding up play.

[Tanglegrip]

BillD you do raise a good point and yesterday's round exemplified it. There was one player in the foursome in front of us that should not have been playing from the blue tees as he was not long enough or accurate enough . Should he have gone off the whites while his 3 buddies went off the blues, probably but with human nature how it is that's not going to happen very often.

We got around in 04:15 and it was a great day to be out on the course. Sure we could have got around in 04:00 or under, but that's no big deal. I've had other worse rounds being held up by groups in front, 05:00+ at a number of courses. Unfortunately that's how it goes some days.

Both XTOUR and Bullet also raise good points. If the driver is going to get you in trouble maybe you should leave it in the bag. I know that I couldn't hit mine consistently for the first year I played. I worked it out on the range and used my 3 wood off the tee instead whenever I played.

As I said earlier, know your own capabilities. If you can drive it straight and a decent distance I don't see a problem with a high or mid handicap playing from the blues. For those that can't then by all means use the white tees.

[Solo II guy]

Forgive me for being frank, but all of those posting that are shooting between 94 and 100 have no business playing the blue tees at any course

Agreed. I can never figure out why people do this to themselves. If you can't get at least 4-5 GIRs per round then you should not play from the blues. GIR is perhaps the best indicator of whether you are playing too far back. It's not the tee shot, but how accurate your approach is. If you have to struggle to make a 4 iron approach shot (instead of a 6 iron) because you played from the blues, then this is a good sign you should be playing from the whites.

This IMHO, is the number 1 cause of slow play as people spend way too much time looking for lost balls as they spray it from the tips, and then only make it on the green in Par. People here who are defending themselves by saying it's their short game are missing the point slightly, if you tee'd fropm the whites, your 180 yard shot for a GIR becomes a 140 yd shot from the whites, and thus you wouldn't have so much troubles converting pars.

I shoot high 80's to high 90's depending on the day and would not dream of teeing off the blues unless the course is really short, like Cedarhill.

[jeffc]

the big difference is often at the par 3's, which generally become significantly harder at most courses when played from the blues as opposed to the whites. I'd agree as well, that anyone who can't break 90 regularly should play from the whites. I often do and am not short by any means with my clubs (and I'm a 12). I just want to enjoy it and not beat myself up.

By moving up it means you can hit a shorter club off the tee, a 3 wood, hybrid or long iron. Hitting driver will bring the trouble into play on a lot of courses and will allow you to keep the ball in play more. Also, that way, your not hitting an approach at an uncomfofrtable distance (say less than 100 yds).

The odd course like Stonebridge is too short from the greens (e.g whites), especially the east. Rather than look at the tees, look at the yardage. It's a better indicator of the tees you should be playing.

[rezadue]

On most courses, there is no reason not to hit 3W or hybrid off the tee and play from the blues.

Case in point is Champlain #10. Even with it being a 600 yard par 5 if you can hit 150 yards you are on in 4 and can two putt for bogey.

As long as you have length to get past the initial trouble ares which are sometimes put in front of the blue tees ( For Example the pond in front of the back tees at Pakenham Canyon #9 ) There is no reason to play from there if you are inclined to do so. Keeping in mind that you must uphold the pace of play .

At a 20 handicap, I enjoy playing the blue tees on most courses (example: I would not play the Marshes from the back tees) and don't hold up pace of play and have enough length to pass the iniotial trouble. So I play it to my hearts content. And in doing so, I am improving hitting my longer clubs.

I do agree that the only big difference if a par 3 where you could generally go fron 150 yards to 190 yards. But then again, there are some par 3 which are already that length from the white tees (Champlain #11 203 yards).

[jeffc]

On most courses, there is no reason not to hit 3W or hybrid off the tee and play from the blues.

Case in point is Champlain #10. Even with it being a 600 yard par 5 if you can hit 150 yards you are on in 4 and can two putt for bogey.

For me, there is a good reason to hit driver on that hole. It's called par. I rarely start a hole thinking I will make bogey at best.

There are lots of holes like that where you need to hit driver, otherwise you are left with 180-200 yds in on greens that can't hold an approach like that.

[rezadue]

For me, there is a good reason to hit driver on that hole. It's called par. I rarely start a hole thinking I will make bogey at best.

There are lots of holes like that where you need to hit driver, otherwise you are left with 180-200 yds in on greens that can't hold an approach like that.

I am not saying that is what one must do. But I am saying you can still play bogey golf if you only get 150 yards. And last time I checked bogey golf=90....

For me, It is a Driver, then either a 3W or 5W off the fairway, followed by anywhere fropm a130-170 yards left on my third shot and being a 20 handicap, I have par'ed that hole before.

[juniorgolfer]

I feel that unless your shooting in the 80's at least you shouldn't move to the back tees. If your shooting around 100 and playing the blues your only making the game harder for yourself and adding more pressure. Theres nothing wrong with shooting 90's but wouldn't it be nice to do that from the whites so as you improve you have tees to move back to to challenge your game? And one of my biggest pet peeves is people who know they aren't of ability to play a certain tee but due because of the people there playing way. Personally, i think it takes more of a man to say you know what guys im gonna walk up and play the whites. It's not about how you are off the tee or with your 4 iron but if its your short game thats holding you back then do yourself a favor and either get out and practise or step up a tee box and leave shorter shorts into greens. By playing the blues and shooting 100 thats only making things harder then they should be

[Solo II guy]

Shooting around 100 means that you are shooting more double bogeys (or worse) than bogeys. You will see your skills improve much quicker when you are trying to scramble for par saves, getting that up-and-down, and other clutch high pressure shots. Confidence in your shotmaking is how to drop strokes. This is easier to do from the whites.

Getting on in par and 2 putting for a double bogey from the blues does nothing for your game.

I'm more impressed with someone's game when they shoot high 80s/low 90s from the whites, than someone that just barely squeaks by with a 100 from the blues

[juniorgolfer]

Shooting around 100 means that you are shooting more double bogeys (or worse) than bogeys. You will see your skills improve much quicker when you are trying to scramble for par saves, getting that up-and-down, and other clutch high pressure shots. Confidence in your shotmaking is how to drop strokes. This is easier to do from the whites.

Getting on in par and 2 putting for a double bogey from the blues does nothing for your game.

I'm more impressed with someone's game when they shoot high 80s/low 90s from the whites, than someone that just barely squeaks by with a 100 from the blues

Ditto