Golf Cheaters and what do you do?

[ToucanSam]

I was playing in a club championship and was teamed up in a group where the other 3 guys were all buddies. We were playing a Par three and one of the guys was taking a practice swing with his wedge prior to chipping onto the green. he proceeded to actually hit his ball on the practice chip and it went across the grren and into the water. He declared that because he wasn't actually attempting to hit the ball he shouldn't be penalized. if this is in fact the ruling then he should be slapped with another penalty for improving his lie by placing a new ball down in the spot his other ball was hit from shouldn't he?

We all began to argue the ruling and eventually his buddies agreed with him and he proceeded to chip the ball into the hole for a birdie! I became furious that the rules were not followed and there was no marshall around to help the situation. He began to start chirping at me on the way to the next tee and we almost came to blows before I backed off and said to him that if that was what he was going to card on the hole than I hope he could be proud of himself.

Over the next few holes he became unglued (I think he was 3 over after 13 holes) and shot 15 over through the final 6 holes. I just smiled as he duffed his way around the course as I knew that the proceeding has attributed to his poor play.

Question: What is the actual rulling in this circumstance? Was I correct?

[Big Johnny69]

If I'm not mistake, I'd have to look it up, the guy is correct. If he was taking a practice swing, with no intention of hitting the ball, he does not incur a penalty. But the down side is, he does incur a penalty for finishing the hole with a different ball.

If I can find it, almost this exact scenario was described in a recent issue of a golf magazine. I'll see if I can dig it up.

[GarthM]

Nope one stroke penalty and replace the ball in it's original position. No additional penalty if you can't get the original ball back. Unfortunately happened to a guy in my group yesterday at Rivermead while putting.

18-2a/20 Ball in Play Moved Accidentally by Practice Swing


Q. A player makes a practice swing and accidentally moves his ball in play with his club. Has he made a stroke?

A. No. He had no intention of moving the ball — see Definition of “Stroke.”
However, he incurs a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2a for moving his ball in play, and the ball must be replaced.

[Big Johnny69]

You sure there isn't another portion to that ruling that deals with losing a ball when taking a practice stroke? I'm almost positive they put forth that scenario in a recent golf magazine........I haven't been able to find it yet though.

[GarthM]

Note 1 to Rule 18 specifies that if the original ball is not immediately retrievable, another may be replaced. You still get a one stroke penalty for moving a ball in play without making a "stroke". Note 1 does not apply if you lose the ball in a manner other than by moving it, i.e. you throw it in anger and it goes in the pond...

[Big Johnny69]

Note 1 to Rule 18 specifies that if the original ball is not immediately retrievable, another may be replaced. You still get a one stroke penalty for moving a ball in play without making a "stroke". Note 1 does not apply if you lose the ball in a manner other than by moving it, i.e. you throw it in anger and it goes in the pond...

Thanks Garth, perhaps the situation I'm referring to in the magazine is a little different then.

[LobWedge]

Note 1 to Rule 18 specifies that if the original ball is not immediately retrievable, another may be replaced. You still get a one stroke penalty for moving a ball in play without making a "stroke". Note 1 does not apply if you lose the ball in a manner other than by moving it, i.e. you throw it in anger and it goes in the pond...

True, but Rule 15 may come in to play here. I'm checking.

Geoff, I believe that you were referring to Decision 15-2/1 where the player accidentally tosses his ball into the lake when he tossed it in the direction of his caddie.

[Big Johnny69]

True, but Rule 15 may come in to play here. I'm checking.

Geoff, I believe that you were referring to Decision 15-2/1 where the player accidentally tosses his ball into the lake when he tossed it in the direction of his caddie.

Might have been that. I know usually in the issue they present many different similar scenarios, and perhaps one was losing a ball while taking a practice swing and one was losing a ball while tossing it at the caddy. Either way, good to know.

[BC MIST]

Question: What is the actual rulling in this circumstance? Was I correct?

After he skulled the ball into the water and declared "no penalty," you say something like, "I believe here is a penalty, but play another ball out and we will get a ruling at the end of the round." At that point it does not matter what he says and getting into an argument will only hurt you.

Because he is a dink, I would watch how and where he drops the substituted ball and if he does this incorrectly, call him at the end when you are getting a ruling for the first incident.

Then, call the cops for an escort home.

[Hank Hill]

Can't remember who it was, but last year one of the PGA pros managed to accidentally throw his ball into a pond while marking it on the green and had to send his nutritionist into the water to get his ball in order to avoid a penalty for not finishing a hole with the ball he started with.

[big mac]

Sticky rule "toucanSam"---I'll say you won because you didn't hit him with your putter! Congrats

[LobWedge]

One stroke penalty per 18-2a. Nothing else. The missing ball is covered by the note at the bottom of the rule.

Note 1: If a ball to be replaced under this Rule is not immediately recoverable, another ball may be substituted.

[ToucanSam]

Correct me if I'm wrong - I hit a ball onto the green and after I mark the ball I accidently drop it and it rolls into a water hazard and is unretrievable. As a result I am penalized one stroke because I didn't finish the hole I started on.

What happens if I crack my ball when I hit it to the green and as a result the ball won't roll straight? Can I replace the ball in this instance? Or must I finish the hole with the same cracked ball?

[LobWedge]

Correct me if I'm wrong - I hit a ball onto the green and after I mark the ball I accidently drop it and it rolls into a water hazard and is unretrievable. As a result I am penalized one stroke because I didn't finish the hole I started on.

What happens if I crack my ball when I hit it to the green and as a result the ball won't roll straight? Can I replace the ball in this instance? Or must I finish the hole with the same cracked ball?

Rule 15-1 says you must hole out with the ball you started the hole with. If you mark your ball and lift it, and then lose it before you hole out, it's a 2 stroke penalty.

In the case where your ball is physically damaged as covered in Rule 5-3, you may replace it without penalty during the course of a hole, provided that your marker or fellow competitor has a chance to examine it, and agrees with your claim.

[BC MIST]

If your ball is cracked, cut or visibly out of round, you may substitute another ball on that hole. However, if it is scraped because it hit a rock or was played from a bunker, it may NOT be replaced.

[AAA]

and agrees with your claim.

That is not a requirement.
If he doesn't agree he can refer it to the committee but the player may play on.
However, in such a situation it would be advisable to invoke 3-3.

[Big Duffer]

the worst part is that you created this big fuss, ruined the guys game and it appears you weren't even sure if you are correct? In the future you can simply call him in it.. if he doesn't accept your ruling, which clearly you weren't even certain was correct, leave it at that and bring it up after when an official comes around.. it's just a game

[Sandpiper3]

Yup, I find its always easiest to use the two ball rule when your not certain, then all the parties that arent 100% will be taken care of before you sign your card at the end of a round and that avoids the confrontational part of it and potentially ruining other players' games.

[smithers40]

yeh man rule 3-3 is always the way to go...i had it in club championship with some questionable ground under and it wasn't marked but i was sure i would get it at least as temporary ground under and he was sure i wouldn't but i said ill jus play 2 balls and let the pro decide and he was so animate about me not getting it but i jus played the 2 balls and ended up getting the relief and saving my par on the hole