cause of graphite shaft breaking?

[Snoopy]

Hi all,
As you can see this is my first post after having lurked for a while...anyway here goes...

A friend recently gave me a used Callaway Warbird Driver with the original stiff shaft. I used it for 2-3 rounds before the head snapped off right at the hosel.

So I brought it back to my friend who put a brand new shaft on it...a proforce 65 gold with stiff tip. I picked it up the next day and went out to the range, and after about 15 drives, the head flew off again, this time the shaft snapped about one inch above the hosel.

My friend insisted that graphite shafts are impossible to break via normal swings and that I must have hit the ground with my club. Who knows, maybe i grazed the ground a couple of times with the Callaway shaft (although I don't recall it) ...but I know that in the 5 minutes that I used the new shaft that I never hit the ground!!

So do you think either shaft was faulty? Or is it just my swing that is faulty

One thing that my friend did mention was that he grooves the shaft before applying epoxy so that it would bond better and that that "is not something that clubmakers do". Of course that left me wondering why he would do it then!!! But the fact that the shaft broke a couple of inches above where he would have grooved it leads me to believe that wouldn't be the cause, but i'm not sure...

I also read somewhere that mis-hits can cause the shaft to weaken over time..well i thought the grand total of 15 drives I hit with it before it broke were decent..I certainy didn't have any major mis-hits.

Btw, I have used regular flex graphite shafts in the past without any problems..

Also, i'm an average hitter...my normal decent drive is about 240 in the air with a *very* high ball flight...and the stiff shafts seem to keep the ball down so I would like to stick with them.

Thanks for reading and I welcome your thoughts.

Snoopy

[donh]

Snoopy,

Sorry to hear that you're snapping shafts. An average golfer should not be able to snap a shaft unless you're hitting something unusual. I consider myself a somewhat long hitter (260-320 range) having a swing speed in the 120 mph range and I've never snapped a club.

It's a stretch here (I don't make clubs), but my observation is that there's probably a good reason why other clubmakers DO NOT make these extra grooves on the shaft. I suspect that the new shaft was "weakened" by these grooves.

Have your guy put in a new shaft without the extra grooves. Assuming an adequate epoxy, there's no need for the grooves. A light sanding of the tip prior to applying the epoxy and you're good to go.

Best of luck,

[Chieflongtee]

Originally posted by donh



Have your guy put in a new shaft without the extra grooves. Assuming an adequate epoxy, there's no need for the grooves. A light sanding of the tip prior to applying the epoxy and you're good to go.

Best of luck, [/B]

Good answer dohn. When installing a graphite shaft in a clubhead the only requirement that is needed is to have the hosel" coned" and deburred. In this case this would not apply as there already was a graphite shaft in there. Nowadays when you buy a clubhead it's already been coned therefore no need to worry about it. Never heard of "grooving" the shaft The light sanding is to remove the "paint part" so the epoxy bond is stronger. If interested read the following article:
http://www.golfworks.com/article_dis...p?ArticleID=53

[faldo]

Andre, you seem to be the best "Techie" on-line.

Is it simple or even possible to shorten graphite shafts?? My two drivers are both more than 5" longer than my 3-wood.
I find them mostly un-manageable & the 3-wood is my best club.

Is that too much of a discrepancy?? I'm guessing it's too much of a swing change to control??

Any thoughts,

Thanks,
George

[Chieflongtee]

George. I don't have much time this morning but will try to answer your question. It is a pretty simple procedure to shorten a graphite shaft. However you need the proper tools. Either a graphite shaft wheel cutter or a saw with a special blade. Anyway if you are inexperienced have someone do it for you. Are your drivers 5 inches longerthan your 3 wood or 1/2 an inch. If it's 5 inches then your drivers are obviously too long for you. If it's 1/2 inch I would not worry about it. The old standard for graphite shafts for a driver before this "hitting the ball farther frenzy" started was 44 inches long.
See the following article:
http://www.golfworks.com/article_dis...p?ArticleID=45

[CBrown]

I recall hearing many reports related to shaft issues near the clubhead with the older Callaway woods (original Big Bertha in particular). As a result, Callaway got really good at doing quick turn-around on factory reshaft jobs ... but then again, Callaway has always had a good warranty program anyway. The bore-thru shaft (lack of a hosel) is a bit complicated for some amateur club-makers and the problem often just gets worse once someone who doesn't know what they're doing has done a bad reshaft job ...

[cruxradio]

I just had a Warbird 3wood reshafted with EI-70 stiff, this is an amazing club! I watched the clubmaker do the entire process of installing the borethrough shaft, I don't think I'd be able to repeat the process myself even with all the right tools.

[powerlefty]

I've assembled a few clubs (metal woods) with graphite shafts. I have never heard tell of "grooving". The only thing I have seen is that removal of the gloss finish on the shaft is very important for the part of the shaft which will be epoxied. This is so that the epoxy has a large surface area to adhere to. As for puting grooves in the graphite shaft, this would actually cut graphite fibres in the shaft and weaken the shaft. In fact there are special cautions issued that even when changing grips and cutting off old grips you need to use a hooked blade so you don't cut into the shaft.

The only instance I have ever encountered breaking a graphite shaft was in a 1-iron. It broke after a few dozen swings and I attribute it to a radically different swingweight the club had with a graphite shaft than with iron shafted irons.

[Slammin' Stever]

Never ever groove graphite. Graphite shafts are either weaved or wrapped. In both cases the fibers are intermeshed so to speak to add strength. They are designed to hold up to the stresses that are placed on them when flexed and impacted. By cutting grooves in them you have actually broken the graphite strings or fibres. Much the same way if you were to cut away some of the fibers on a hemp rope. Over a period of time these will give way due to the forces applied to them. If you were to waited too long to pull a grahite shaft off a head and over cook it. The heat will penetrate the graphite and you will notice that the graphite fibers weaken and sort of "puff up". This is the the fibers weakening and "unwinding".

Lots of things add too breakage or prevent breakage of a graphite shaft. Hosel preperation, shaft preperation, too much epoxy, wrong (cheap) epoxy can also be calprits. Long drivers have for years realized the longer the ferrule the less likely the breakage around the hosel. Alot of deep bore OEMs clubs use the smaller ring collars. I have seen an awfull lot of breakage with this combinations. The stress on full bores at impact are usually where the neck of the component head meets the small ferrule. Even if the collar has been pre-coned it still may not be suitable for shafting graphite without the proper prepping.

Faldo,

Your driver can be alot longer then your fairway woods since you are hitting your ball on the upswing compared to the downswing of the arc with your fairway woods. I have used any where from a 44.5" to a 48" driver. Just remember it is generally a traded off the longer the club you will get more distance but you may sacrifice direction. Finding the correct combination for you individually is the trick.

Try choking down on your woods. If you can hit them straighter and longer then just have them shortened at the butt rather then pulling your old shafts, cutting and re-shafting them.

Cutting them on tip could change the whole dynamics of your shafts. You could loose the "snap" or the "kick" in your shafts and thus you will get no height or distance.

Hope this helps.

[faldo]

Great info guys...

Thanks to Steve & Andre

[Chieflongtee]

Slamming Stever resumed it best. That's why a graphite shaft SHOULD NEVER BE TWISTED OFF WHEN REMOVED . But one thing should be kept in mind. The 3 wood is a heck of a lot more forgiving club than the driver because of the difference in loft. The higher the loft (i.e 15 degrees for a 3 wood) the less sidespin therefore more backspin therefore more balls in play.
Faldo, I'm still waiting for my tea.

[faldo]

Geez Andre, I sent it via Fed-Ex. I hope they didn't screw up the address???

Take care,

[Slammin' Stever]

Andre,
You are very correct about twisting of the head during pulling a shaft...an absolute "No" "No".....even with if the shafts are made with Titanium tipped reinforcements like that of the Harrison series.

I think faldo is sending you "ice tea"!!!:

Stever

[1972Apex]

One thing I would like to point out is that Callaway is very reasonable and quick if you send clubs with a broken shaft to them to reshaft. Often, even with older clubs like your Warbird they will do the job for free. I just got back a reshafted S2H2 8-iron which was 12 years old. Callaway only charged $20 for the new shaft and installation including shipping back and forth. They even polished up the clubhead. Plus when Callaway replaces the shaft they warranty it. If you sent it back a week later with another broken shaft they would not try and claim you must have hit the ground with it.

[el tigre]

I also read somewhere that mis-hits can cause the shaft to weaken over time..

Absolutely true. I've had two driver shafts break/bend due to a mis-hit. The graphite shaft broke on my old Integra on a mis-hit where the clubhead meets the hosel. The steel shaft on my Callaway Steelhead Plus bent on a mis-hit in the same place. I believe both mis-hits resulting from teeing the ball too high and too close, so I am now more careful with this.

Callaway has always had a good warranty program anyway.

Also true. Took my Steelhead Plus to CBs, and Callaway replaced the shaft at no charge.

[Slammin' Stever]

You are correct I have heard that most OEM companies have been good in the past for repairs. However I have seen quite a few offset low hosel OEM graphite shafts break. In some cases there have been golfers who have gone almost through a whole bag of broken shafts. Ping is still made in the old US of A. However, I have heard that most OEM's who use to repair their clubs in the states have now moved the facilities offshore to china. This is because of cost cutting measures. Now the waiting time on a club to come back is up there and also the quality of workmanship could be questionable.

I guess the best senerio is to get clubs that don't break. If you swing 110 g's and up and are using graphite, do not skimp on the quality of the graphite shaft, or else get use to sending your best performing, most reliable..."take the club out of your bag and play it all the time" club along way from home for repair.


Stever

[Ty Webb]

I have the same problem. I bought a used Callaway Steelhead Plus 3 wood with a UST graphite shaft. Two swings and it snapped about an inch above the hosel. I had it replace with a PK fibre shaft at a reputable local dealer. Three swings and it snapped right at the hosel. My Steelhead 5 wood works fine!

Is this a problem with my swing or the club? It is getting expensive.

Ty

[Snoopy]

Thanks for all the replies everyone...a lot of useful information.

Originally posted by Proforged
One thing I would like to point out is that Callaway is very reasonable and quick if you send clubs with a broken shaft to them to reshaft.

Proforged: I think I'll try sending the club back to Callaway like you did. How did you go about initiating this? i.e. did you call or email and arrange this with Callaway beforehand, or did you go through a dealer, or what?

[1972Apex]

Snoopy I took mine to the Chuck Brown's outlet in Bells Corners and they sent it off to Callaway. Took just under two weeks to get it back. Make sure you write a note explaining that the original shaft broke and then the replacement broke after just a few hits. If you have the original shaft to send along to back up the story they will probably do the work cheaper. Just tell them you tried to have someone reshaft it at first rather then send it back to them but obviously he did a poor job.
If you decide to go local, I would have no hesitation in recommending Slammin' Stever at Straight Ball Golf.

[Chieflongtee]

QUOTE]Originally posted by Ty Webb
I had it replace with a PK fibre shaft at a reputable local dealer. Three swings and it snapped right at the hosel. My Steelhead 5 wood works fine!

Is this a problem with my swing or the club? It is getting expensive.

Ty [/B][/QUOTE]
Ty. SK Fiber shafts are guaranteed therefore you should get a free replacement shaft from your clubmaker especially if the shaft broke a couple inches above the hosel(it is not a coning issue). Needless to say I would stay away from mats in the driving range when practicing your fairway woods. BTW I do have in my bin a Callaway RCH 96 regular shaft. If ever that's the way you want to go send me a pm. I'll let you have it for peanuts. André

[Ty Webb]

I appreciate that Andre. I have contacted the dealer and he told me to bring it in. I was hitting off the grass via a tee. No divot, etc.

The ball took off and when I looked at the club. No head. It was sitting right where the ball was. Weird.