Muckler Fired!

[LobWedge]

Edmonton doesn't want Redden. He's overpriced and we are shopping for expensive forwards, not a useless crack head who gives the puck away all game. Lupol isn't going anywhere either, but wouldn't it be fitting, a coke head for a coke head.

Woah, easy! Gotta be careful of what your accusing here. As far as I know, neither of them has been arrested and/or suspended on drug related issues. That could be slander.

[Txxxxxxx]

Woah, easy! Gotta be careful of what your accusing here. As far as I know, neither of them has been arrested and/or suspended on drug related issues. That could be slander.

HAHAHA!! I know people who work for the Oilers directly and word on the street is you know...

Just because someone hasn't been arrested for something, doesn't mean they don't do it.

[jeffc]

actually the rumour on the street is that they are interested....

as for Muckler, good article in the Sun today about the difference between the Leafs and the Sens when it comes to winning, or at least wanting to:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...72726-sun.html

[jvincent]

Now that is a classic post. I'm sure the Leafs Nation will be all up in arms.

[jeffc]

Now that is a classic post. I'm sure the Leafs Nation will be all up in arms.

why? cause it's true?

[Txxxxxxx]

actually the rumour on the street is that they are interested....

as for Muckler, good article in the Sun today about the difference between the Leafs and the Sens when it comes to winning, or at least wanting to:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...72726-sun.html

Actually, it's not. Maybe the people who don't know are saying the Oilers are interested, but nothing coming from the Oilers head office where my gf's brother works says anything less than they are not willing to pay one player as much money as he is making for the performance they would expect to get from him.

[Txxxxxxx]

Rumour says that Messier and Gretzky are coming out of retirement and signing with the Oilers next week.

[jvincent]

why? cause it's true?

Yep. The truth hurts if you're a Leafs fan.

[Chambokl]

Thanks Jeff.. I stand corrected. I don't know why I thought he was from Vancouver. Played his Jr in Manitoba.

I still don't think he would go to Edmonton. Who wants to go play in Edmonton... Ask Pronger.... that is another story...lol

I still say Redden likes Ottawa way too much to want to move...

[jeffc]

so here's the deal....even if Redden likes Ottawa, I highly doubt Ottawa will pay him 6.5M a year after next season. They'd let him walk before that. Of course there are lots of teams out there that will pay him that so whether he is here 1 more year or no more years he might be as good as done here. If he wants to take a pay cut and make maybe 4M a year, that might fly but that would mean a longer contract - maybe3-4 years.

No trade clauses are by and large meaningless and only allow a player to pick where he wants to be traded not if he wants to be traded. If the Sens want to deal him and he likes the location then it will happen.

[3Jack]

Edmonton doesn't want Redden. He's overpriced and we are shopping for expensive forwards, not a useless crack head who gives the puck away all game. Lupol isn't going anywhere either, but wouldn't it be fitting, a coke head for a coke head.

So tired of hearing this about Redden. Do we have first hand knowledge of this addiction?

Personally, I think this a cheap shot. He may be a crack head, he may not be a crack head. But until it's absolute public knowledge or until he checks into a detox facility, it makes me uncomfortable to subscribe to such.

[Txxxxxxx]

So tired of hearing this about Redden. Do we have first hand knowledge of this addiction?

Personally, I think this a cheap shot. He may be a crack head, he may not be a crack head. But until it's absolute public knowledge or until he checks into a detox facility, it makes me uncomfortable to subscribe to such.

People are free to think what they want. As I said before, it's not like everyone who uses illegal substances is arrested for it.

Kevin Stevens ring a bell? That guy would get a bloody nose if he scratched it.


How many people knew Theoren Fleury was an alcoholic before he first admitted he needed help? Probably his teammates and people who were close to him, OR, perhaps people who saw him in the bar all the time.

Another example of how professional athletes do what they want is even if married, these guys are on the road all the time. How faithful do you think they are? Tons of puck bunnies running around. Look at Pronger...The reason he asked for a trade out of Edmonton is because he got a girl pregnant here in Edmonton, and NO, it wasn't his wife. She wasn't even here with him...

Food for thought...

[3Jack]

We have all heard the stories and rumours, and you can think what you like, but it doesn't mean it's right of us to expouse potentially slanderous theories in a public forum.

[Txxxxxxx]

We have all heard the stories and rumours, and you can think what you like, but it doesn't mean it's right of us to expouse potentially slanderous theories in a public forum.

Whether or not it's a theory or not is up to what you want to believe.

Public figures deal with "rumours" all the time. Is it also slander to say Redden is a horrible hockey player? I mean clearly the Senators don't think that of him, nor does the Canadian Hockey Association because I mean afterall, he was named to Team Canada. In the end, it's a free country and people are allowed to say and believe what they want.

[Colby]

An article in today's sun has a list of front runners for the coaching position...

John Paddock, Randy Cunnyworth, Dale Hunter, and Pat (can you fricken believe this) Quinn.

Pat Quinn would be a world of headaches as he likes to be the boss. He can motivate players somewhat, but his coaching style is too old.

[Txxxxxxx]

An article in today's sun has a list of front runners for the coaching position...

John Paddock, Randy Cunnyworth, Dale Hunter, and Pat (can you fricken believe this) Quinn.

Pat Quinn would be a world of headaches as he likes to be the boss. He can motivate players somewhat, but his coaching style is too old.

I say John Paddock will be the new coach. He already knows the players and their tendencies. It would be the logical choice.

[Shivas Irons]

Edmonton doesn't want Redden. He's overpriced and we are shopping for expensive forwards, not a useless crack head who gives the puck away all game. Lupol isn't going anywhere either, but wouldn't it be fitting, a coke head for a coke head.

It has been reported that Kevin Lowe was trying to land either Timmonen or Hartnell - both D-men so it looks like the Oiler's ARE in the market for a D-man & I wouldn't surprised if they land Redden and deal Torres.
To my knowledge despite the persistent rumours their use of drugs is not confirmed. Don't these guys have random testing anyway?

[Shivas Irons]

. Maybe the people who don't know are saying the Oilers are interested, but nothing coming from the Oilers head office where my gf's brother works

According to the Edmonton Journal, Oilers GM Kevin Lowe spoke with Nashville GM David Poile...

"I did call David and tried to do a deal. ... I was hoping we'd trade a few more calls, but he had to do what was best for Nashville," Lowe told the newspaper. "I had interest in one of the players. I don't know if I was interested in a package."
"We want to reward our fans for being loyal and create a splash like we did a couple of summers ago (Chris Pronger and Michael Peca coming in via trades)," Lowe said.

[3Jack]

Whether or not it's a theory or not is up to what you want to believe.

Public figures deal with "rumours" all the time. Is it also slander to say Redden is a horrible hockey player? I mean clearly the Senators don't think that of him, nor does the Canadian Hockey Association because I mean afterall, he was named to Team Canada. In the end, it's a free country and people are allowed to say and believe what they want.

There's a difference between a trade rumour, and a crack cocaine addicition rumour. Rather than 'slander', I should have used the term defamation, as defamation covers any communication that tends to lower the esteem of the subject in the minds of ordinary members of the public.The perspective measuring the esteem is highly contextual, and depends on the view of the potential audience of the communication and their degree of background knowledge. Probably true statements are not excluded, nor are political opinions. Intent is always presumed, and it is not necessary to prove that the defendant intended to defame.

[Txxxxxxx]

There's a difference between a trade rumour, and a crack cocaine addicition rumour. Rather than 'slander', I should have used the term defamation, as defamation covers any communication that tends to lower the esteem of the subject in the minds of ordinary members of the public.The perspective measuring the esteem is highly contextual, and depends on the view of the potential audience of the communication and their degree of background knowledge. Probably true statements are not excluded, nor are political opinions. Intent is always presumed, and it is not necessary to prove that the defendant intended to defame.

That covers about every comment or opinion you can possible hear at the water cooler.

[Txxxxxxx]

According to the Edmonton Journal, Oilers GM Kevin Lowe spoke with Nashville GM David Poile...

"I did call David and tried to do a deal. ... I was hoping we'd trade a few more calls, but he had to do what was best for Nashville," Lowe told the newspaper. "I had interest in one of the players. I don't know if I was interested in a package."
"We want to reward our fans for being loyal and create a splash like we did a couple of summers ago (Chris Pronger and Michael Peca coming in via trades)," Lowe said.

Okay? Not sure why you quoted me..... I was speaking in terms of Redden. Your reply mentions the Nashville Predators....Am I missing something?

[spackler]

Edmonton doesn't want Redden. He's overpriced and we are shopping for expensive forwards, not a useless crack head who gives the puck away all game. Lupol isn't going anywhere either, but wouldn't it be fitting, a coke head for a coke head.

Whether or not it's a theory or not is up to what you want to believe.

Public figures deal with "rumours" all the time. Is it also slander to say Redden is a horrible hockey player? I mean clearly the Senators don't think that of him, nor does the Canadian Hockey Association because I mean afterall, he was named to Team Canada. In the end, it's a free country and people are allowed to say and believe what they want.

People are definitely allowed to believe whatever they want, and mostly say what they want, but there is a protection built into the law to prevent people from deriding others unfairly. In the same way that people are innocent until proven guilty, you're not allowed to report something as true or possibly true unless you have some sort of proof to back it up. I have heard the same rumours as you, I'm sure most people on the board have too, but unless you have proof, it is defamation to write it.

Calling him a poor hockey player is a subjective opinion which everyone is entitled to have and express. Calling him a cokehead and crackhead accuses him of engaging in illegal personal conduct that would greatly impact his ability to earn a living. If a newspaper were to print that, or radio and tv were to air it, it would torpedo his free agency next year. If they were to do that and could not prove it, Redden would be able to sue them for money lost as well as damages on top of it. And he'd win. That's not to say it's not true, but you need to be able to prove it's true before you comment.

I'm actually a bit surprised Dan has allowed that post to remain as he would also be liable in the unlikely event that Redden saw this and decided to sue.

[Txxxxxxx]

It has been reported that Kevin Lowe was trying to land either Timmonen or Hartnell - both D-men so it looks like the Oiler's ARE in the market for a D-man & I wouldn't surprised if they land Redden and deal Torres.
To my knowledge despite the persistent rumours their use of drugs is not confirmed. Don't these guys have random testing anyway?

Why was Kevin Stevens never caught? Maybe because he's never been tested? RANDOM testing means RANDOM. It doesn't mean every player in the league gets tested for banned substances each year.

There are many things that our hockey "heroes" do in their own time that would probably turn most people off. Like I said before, just because it hasn't been announced on National television, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I don't really think it's something any of us can argue.

As for Edmonton's search for a D-Man..That is correct. Lowe is shopping for sure, but I don't think Timmonen or Hartnell have the same sort of contract Wade Redden brings to the table. They do need a defenseman, but they also need to address their lack of offensive production issues. Signing a player like Redden, who has been scrutinized, would probably leave them with very little salary cap to sign high profile forwards.

The only time Redden has ever been mentioned in the Oilers front office is last season. They were pondering the idea of trying to get him on board before the trade deadline depending on what the team's record was. That would only make him a rent-a-player and the team would not be responsible for the entirety of his contract. The new salary cap chokes a lot of teams, so it's hard to sign more than one or two big names. Edmonton needs to sign 4 or 5 high production players in order to compete next season.

[Txxxxxxx]

People are definitely allowed to believe whatever they want, and mostly say what they want, but there is a protection built into the law to prevent people from deriding others unfairly. In the same way that people are innocent until proven guilty, you're not allowed to report something as true or possibly true unless you have some sort of proof to back it up. I have heard the same rumours as you, I'm sure most people on the board have too, but unless you have proof, it is defamation to write it.

Calling him a poor hockey player is a subjective opinion which everyone is entitled to have and express. Calling him a cokehead and crackhead accuses him of engaging in illegal personal conduct that would greatly impact his ability to earn a living. If a newspaper were to print that, or radio and tv were to air it, it would torpedo his free agency next year. If they were to do that and could not prove it, Redden would be able to sue them for money lost as well as damages on top of it. And he'd win. That's not to say it's not true, but you need to be able to prove it's true before you comment.

I'm actually a bit surprised Dan has allowed that post to remain as he would also be liable in the unlikely event that Redden saw this and decided to sue.

The issue I have with this is the message board is a place to converse. It's a membership thing, not the local newspaper. So in that regard, I view this the same as conversation between a membership. There are very limited situations where anyone is liable for defamation. If I'm outside talking with my friends after a game or in a bar and call someone a crack head or coke head, they can not sue me for defamation of character, because freedom of speech comes into play, no matter how famous they are.

When Chris Pronger's incident was publicized in the newspapers and throughout the media, he just laughed and shook it off, of course denying any wrongdoing. How do you think Tabloids get away with what they publish about famous Hollywood icons and their personal lives. They take a picture and write their own story about it. Tom Cruise might be sipping a cup of coffee and they would turn it into "Cruise's morning drunk fest"

Dan is more than welcome to delete any posts in respect to Redden if he wants. It's his board.

[spackler]

The issue I have with this is the message board is a place to converse. It's a membership thing, not the local newspaper. So in that regard, I view this the same as conversation between a membership. There are very limited situations where anyone is liable for defamation. If I'm outside talking with my friends after a game or in a bar and call someone a crack head or coke head, they can not sue me for defamation of character, because freedom of speech comes into play, no matter how famous they are.

When Chris Pronger's incident was publicized in the newspapers and throughout the media, he just laughed and shook it off, of course denying any wrongdoing. How do you think Tabloids get away with what they publish about famous Hollywood icons and their personal lives. They take a picture and write their own story about it. Tom Cruise might be sipping a cup of coffee and they would turn it into "Cruise's morning drunk fest"

Dan is more than welcome to delete any posts in respect to Redden if he wants. It's his board.

I understand what you're saying, but this is getting to be a very grey area in the law. Even though it is a 'conversation' and nobody is assuming you have the same credibility as a newspaper like the Citizen, it's more than 'conversation' because it is written and then published to the web, where as soon as the web crawlers pick it up, it's cached for evermore. People are actually starting to sue people over linking to defaming content, never mind publishing it on their own site.

Tabloids are very clever at how they write headlines and stories so that they don't step over the line. They pay lawyers millions for that and every story is vetted before it is published.

[Txxxxxxx]

I understand what you're saying, but this is getting to be a very grey area in the law. Even though it is a 'conversation' and nobody is assuming you have the same credibility as a newspaper like the Citizen, it's more than 'conversation' because it is written and then published to the web, where as soon as the web crawlers pick it up, it's cached for evermore. People are actually starting to sue people over linking to defaming content, never mind publishing it on their own site.

Tabloids are very clever at how they write headlines and stories so that they don't step over the line. They pay lawyers millions for that and every story is vetted before it is published.

Like I said before, if Dan feels this is defamation he's more than likely to delete the posts where Redden's name is mentioned. I can even do it myself if he wants.

[Colby]

* * * Mod Post * * *

This thread is about Muckler getting fired and what that means to the Senators. Any further discussion that may be considered slanderous will be removed. Keep it on topic.

[Txxxxxxx]

***Edited all posts mentioned you know who and you know what

HAHAHAHAH!

[Txxxxxxx]

Why did "censored" show up when I put a bunch of *'s ?

[jeffc]

As for Edmonton's search for a D-Man..That is correct. Lowe is shopping for sure, but I don't think Timmonen or Hartnell have the same sort of contract Wade Redden brings to the table. They do need a defenseman, but they also need to address their lack of offensive production issues. Signing a player like Redden, who has been scrutinized, would probably leave them with very little salary cap to sign high profile forwards.

first you say that they are shopping for expensive forwards now a D-Man. Why not just say they are shopping for a new team. So much for the inside information.

As for Timmonen, they just signed him to a $6M contract - so it looks like they are looking for someone in that range.

as for the other stuff - slander refers to the spoken word, libel the written. And don't think there aren't laws around this stuff. It's free speech - but there are limits.