Phil: Oakmont is dangerous for the players

[B Nation]

I can't believe he said that the rough is a physical hazard. You always have the option to take your medicine and chip it back into the fairway. If you are going to take a full swing at a ball buried 7 inches in the rough, then you run the risk of getting hurt, just like if you try to hit a ball behind a tree, rock, or root.

Does anyone think his point has any merit?

http://blogs.golf.com/golfcom/2007/0...akmont_is.html

[Hacker]

That's BS!!

No one is being forced to hit a shot if they don't want to. Take the unplayable and go back to where you hit your last shot from.......

[dH]

Phill can say what he wants, their is penalty and than just getting overboard, isnt' that how he hurt his wrist originally? Either way he's one of the top players in the world and that is his oppinion, what do we know sitting at our computers from the peanut gallery....

[LobWedge]

I agree with some of what Phil has to say here. These guys play on tour the other 40 or so weeks of the season. It's a lot to risk a major injury in one tournament at the risk of missing a bunch of others, whether it's the US Open or not.

With fairways averaging less than 24 yards wide and greens rolling at 15+, there's very little risk capping the rough at 4". Just short enough to make it less stressful on the wrists, elbows, shoulders, back, etc., but long enough to kill the spin on shots coming out of it. I bet that there's a better chance of a pro making par by muscling the ball out of 6" of rough to the fairway, and then having a shot with a shorter club from a clean lie, than there is by going at the pin with a long or mid-iron from slightly shorter rough from further away. The ball from the clean lie will spin, the ball from 4" of rough won't.

[jonf]

Boo hoo. Phil is just whining, particularly because he has an existing wrist injury. He should really just take his medicine and not play. He's going to hurt his rist a lot worse than it already is, and then complain that it was the course's fault. No Phil, its your fault for being an idiot and not taking the week off.

[Golfbum]

In a way Phil is right on his thoughts about the setup for this years US Open. Why does the USGA continue to try to torture the best golfers in the world but taking hard courses and making them unplayable at times?

Remember the greens during the final round at Shinnicock? Burnt up, brown and so damn fast that the USGA decided they had better water a few of them down after some groups had putted the balls off the front edges. Now when you look at that, how fair is that? Your group had to putt on a tabletop and my group had a green that was watered down and slowed down somewhat.

Mike Weir said he felt sorry for the members of Shinnicock as the greens were basically unplayable and would be for some time after that US Open.

Lefty Phil actually hit a tee shot on a Par 3 into the front bunker on purpose as he figured it would be easier to keep the ball below the hole on his second shot. How stupid is that? One of the best players in the world forced to hit into a bunker in order to try to make par on a Par 3.

The USGA states it wants to identify the best player in the world during the US Open. Well if that is the case why did Jack not win every Open he entered during his prime years? How come Tiger has not won every US Open for the past 5 years?

The USGA identifies the player who gets some lucky bounces during the 4 days of play. The USGA identifies the player who has the toughest mindset, that week. Not necessarily the best players in the world.

Does that make the winner any less of a Champion? No it doesn’t. However why continue to grow rough that is 6 inches high? Without the spotters the rounds would take 6 hours as guys would be losing tee shots and heading back to the blocks to reload.

The R&A learned its lesson when they tricked up Carnoustie a few years ago. Rough up to the players knees. Fairways wide enough to have two compact cars side by side. It was disaster and the R&A was smart enough to recognize that fact. Sure they change some Par 5’s into Par 4’s of 500 yards. I have no problems with that as the players can drive it 350+ on the fairways in most Open Championship venues. Due to lack of irrigation the fairways are fast and firm. The R&A does not seem to be bent on keeping the winning score over par, like the USGA does.

IMO the PGA of America does a great job when it comes to setting up the courses they use for the PGA Championships. Tough but fair and not tricked up by rolling fairways, double cutting and rolling greens so speeds reach close to 15 on the Stimpmeter.
The best player that weeks wins, simple enough.

The members of the PGA Tour have to take into consideration that they need to continue playing after the US Open. Risking a season ending or possibly a career ending injury to satisfy the minds of the USGA is downright stupid on the players and the USGA’s part.

I enjoy watching the best players in the world struggle to make pars. But watching train wrecks happen is not fun. If you watch the telecast of the US Open you will see some scary shots played. Shots that just should not happen but do happen because of the way the USGA sets up the US Open courses.

Just my two cents worth.

[jonf]

In all fairness, I don't think they meant for Shinnecok to get as bad as it did. I think they simply miscalculated and ended up with greens that were faster than they had planned. The trouble is, you can't go out and water them, because it is unfair to the golfers.

As people have mentioned, there is always the option to pitch out. The USGA is not forcing players to take dangerous shots. They are forcing them to hit accurate drives and make good decisions. With rough that long, they're probably better off chipping out anyway...that way they have a chance of actually holding the green.

I for one think its great to see someone actually bringing the "danger" back to the course. Rough that is actually difficult to get out of, greens that are tough to hold/putt. A course that actually punishes bad shots.

[runner]

P.M. should not be there in the first place. If he has an injured wrist he wont play at his best so has no chance of winning, has every chance of playing from the rough, thus further injuring his wrist, and potentially getting a career ending injury. So why is he there??

[John]

"In a way Phil is right on his thoughts about the setup for this years US Open. Why does the USGA continue to try to torture the best golfers in the world but taking hard courses and making them unplayable at times?"

I don't think this course is by any means unplayable with alot of the guys hovering around par and a few under. Why wouldn't the USGA make these courses play harder, the Majors are meant to be won by players at their peak and those on top of their game. The cream of the crop rightfully rises up at Major championships.

[John]

I also think that Phil is a cry baby, upset about his wrist so he's blubbering like the little fatty that he is.

[Golfbum]

I don't think this course is by any means unplayable with alot of the guys hovering around par and a few under. Why wouldn't the USGA make these courses play harder, the Majors are meant to be won by players at their peak and those on top of their game. The cream of the crop rightfully rises up at Major championships.

Sadly the bottom of the barrel players sometimes get to the top during Majors.
Orville Moody, US Open winner and not much else. Paul Lawrie, Open Championship winner. Craig Perks, Players Championship, and during the first round last week in Memphis he was +14 after 14 holes.

When golf courses get tricked up the chances of winning sometimes come down to some quirky bounces. Is that how you identify the best player that week? "Oh I won because I got that great bounce onto the green on 15 and made a solid boogie"



I am not saying that Major Championship courses should not play tough. I am saying most Major Championship courses do not need to be tricked up.

[John]

One good bounce doesn't win someone a golf tournament. In all those cases those guys still outplayed everyone else in the field!! I don't know how you can say "sadly bottom of the barrel players win the masters.." they won because they outplayed everyone else plain and simple.

[jeffc]

i'd say more often than not the best players will win. everyone once in awhile someone will play above their heads at the right time and win a major.

I think the course is set-up fine but it is a fine line and hopefully they will stay on the right side of that line.

[Mattchew]

it is boarderline for sure right now....Yes in the U.S. open bad shots should be penalized...but there are some great shots that are ending up running past 50-60 feet. But I really dont think that they need 6-7inch rough...4 inchs would do just as well.

[dH]

Boo hoo. Phil is just whining, particularly because he has an existing wrist injury. He should really just take his medicine and not play. He's going to hurt his rist a lot worse than it already is, and then complain that it was the course's fault. No Phil, its your fault for being an idiot and not taking the week off.

Did you care to find out where Phil hurt his wrist?? It explains lots.

[jonf]

Sadly the bottom of the barrel players sometimes get to the top during Majors.
Orville Moody, US Open winner and not much else. Paul Lawrie, Open Championship winner. Craig Perks, Players Championship, and during the first round last week in Memphis he was +14 after 14 holes.

When golf courses get tricked up the chances of winning sometimes come down to some quirky bounces. Is that how you identify the best player that week? "Oh I won because I got that great bounce onto the green on 15 and made a solid boogie"



I am not saying that Major Championship courses should not play tough. I am saying most Major Championship courses do not need to be tricked up.

Give me a break. If you want to give the title to the top player in the world, what the hell is the point in competing? I guarantee you that all those no-name players who won were the BEST players in the world for that week. Everyone is playing the same course, everyone faces the same conditions. You mention Lawrie and this Moody guy. What about Rich Beem and Mike Weir? They won the majors that are a lot less about punishing condition, and have also faded into relative oblivion. The fact is, the top 3 guys in the world won't win every week, no matter what the tournament is, and that is the reason why we watch.

Also, I'd like to know Tiger's winning percentage in majors vs regular tournaments. You might find that Tiger is even better in majors than in the rest of the tournaments. Which, of course, would suggest that the best player has a better chance of winning a major than other tournaments.

[jvincent]

Did you care to find out where Phil hurt his wrist?? It explains lots.

True, but he didn't need to spend so much time practicing hacking out of the rough.

In fact one could argue if he had simply practiced hitting the fairway with irons/hybrids he wouldn't have had to practice gouging out of the rough.

[spackler]

True, but he didn't need to spend so much time practicing hacking out of the rough.

In fact one could argue if he had simply practiced hitting the fairway with irons/hybrids he wouldn't have had to practice gouging out of the rough.

With how hard the fairways are, and how much they tilt, I think practicing out of the rough was probably a fairly prudent strategy. The field fairways hit stat today was 49.7%.

[PEI Golfing]

Dear Phil and Monty,

Since you both have made an early and unexpected exit from the U.S Open I thought you might have some free time on your hands.........
Perhaps you would be able to join me for some early practice rounds at Carnoustie in preparation for the upcoming British Open.

Sincerely yours,

Jean Van de Velde

[Hank Hill]

Dear Phil and Monty,

Since you both have made an early and unexpected exit from the U.S Open I thought you might have some free time on your hands.........
Perhaps you would be able to join me for some early practice rounds at Carnoustie in preparation for the upcoming British Open.

Sincerely yours,

Jean Van de Velde

Nice! I wonder if Harrington or Scott would like to make up that foursome?

Poor old Monty though, looks like he will forever be remembered as the best player to never win a major. Really sad for him as he has so many 2nd place finishes, I was gutted last year when he choked on the 72 hole. He hasn't got many chances left, perhaps on home soil he might win it in some fairytale ending, perhaps not, his record at Carnoustie is not that great i'm afraid.

[big mac]

I wish he would really stop crying!

[Hank Hill]

Dear Angel

You ***!

Love Phil