2007 Citizen Amateur

[jvincent]

But if he could've gotten a few putts to drop he would've been closer to 80.

Damn straight.

I've got a blade putter drying in the workshop right now for this weekend's rounds to see if I can break my funk with the flat stick.

[lms]

Not bad, 3 off the lead is mjf.

How does one shoot +36 at their home course, or +50 for that matter.

http://www.flagstick.com/ottawa_amateur/mens_scores.htm

http://www.flagstick.com/ottawa_amat...ies_scores.htm

[mberube]

Guys if you have never played in those types of tournaments please don’t judge. There are certain players that posted enormous numbers yesterday at are members of this forum. Some of them can shoot low and have honest handicaps as some of you have played with them in the past.

Just a heads up. Some players may be very embarrassed of posting these scores but hats off to those that hung in there and finished the round.

Mike

[mjf]

Not bad, 3 off the lead is mjf.

Hmmm... Kinda makes me wish I hadn't bogeyed 3 of my last 4 holes!

[Big Johnny69]

Guys if you have never played in those types of tournaments please don’t judge. There are certain players that posted enormous numbers yesterday at are members of this forum. Some of them can shoot low and have honest handicaps as some of you have played with them in the past.

Just a heads up. Some players may be very embarrassed of posting these scores but hats off to those that hung in there and finished the round.

Mike

I fully understand what you are talking about Mike, but this is where some people have an issue with the Citizen. Yes tourney golf is tough and yes its possible to have a bad day. But not all the entrants that shoot high scores have honest handicaps. You can't honestly tell me the guy that shot 122 is a legitimate single digit. When I was going through my really bad stretch last year, even playing out every hole and then adjusting my score after the fact I was never close to 122, 100 maybe on a really bad day with the swing issues I had, but I still managed to get around the course nowhere near 120+. For instance in a club event last year, my game was way off, and yet I still managed to get around in 93. If you are a single digit and having a bad day, at some point you go into damage control, be it half swings, bump and runs etc. Bad days will happen and the scores near 100 are possible, but 122, c'mon.

Blow up holes are possible at SB and some of these other courses listed for the Citizen, but if you play 9 holes in 71 there is something wrong there. The player shot par for the entire course on one nine. Now barring an inury, that shouldn't happen. Hell, I never even shot that high for a nine even when I started playing golf.

I know this will probably open a can of worms, but I'll leave it at that.

[John]

I've got to agree with Geoff no single digi cap should shoot that score.

[jeffc]

i'd have to agree with you Geoff. carding a 71 at SB on one of the 9's is unfathomable for a 7 or less handicap.

[mberube]

I fully understand what you are talking about Mike, but this is where some people have an issue with the Citizen. Yes tourney golf is tough and yes its possible to have a bad day. But not all the entrants that shoot high scores have honest handicaps. You can't honestly tell me the guy that shot 122 is a legitimate single digit. When I was going through my really bad stretch last year, even playing out every hole and then adjusting my score after the fact I was never close to 122, 100 maybe on a really bad day with the swing issues I had, but I still managed to get around the course nowhere near 120+. For instance in a club event last year, my game was way off, and yet I still managed to get around in 93. If you are a single digit and having a bad day, at some point you go into damage control, be it half swings, bump and runs etc. Bad days will happen and the scores near 100 are possible, but 122, c'mon.

Blow up holes are possible at SB and some of these other courses listed for the Citizen, but if you play 9 holes in 71 there is something wrong there. The player shot par for the entire course on one nine. Now barring an inury, that shouldn't happen. Hell, I never even shot that high for a nine even when I started playing golf.

I know this will probably open a can of worms, but I'll leave it at that.

Geoff, I did not mention anyone and no I don’t know the guy that shot 122. I will not pretend that 122 seem fishy for a single digit HDCP but I’m not one to judge since I did not play in the tourney. Was this guy hurt, sick…. I have no idea and I don’t have right to judge since I don’t know him.

All I’m saying is that some single digit HDCP players that I know posted abnormal numbers. It’s embarrassing to post that number on the Internet but even worse to question your integrity on this forum the next day.

[1972Apex]

I fully understand what you are talking about Mike, but this is where some people have an issue with the Citizen. Yes tourney golf is tough and yes its possible to have a bad day. But not all the entrants that shoot high scores have honest handicaps. You can't honestly tell me the guy that shot 122 is a legitimate single digit. When I was going through my really bad stretch last year, even playing out every hole and then adjusting my score after the fact I was never close to 122, 100 maybe on a really bad day with the swing issues I had, but I still managed to get around the course nowhere near 120+. For instance in a club event last year, my game was way off, and yet I still managed to get around in 93. If you are a single digit and having a bad day, at some point you go into damage control, be it half swings, bump and runs etc. Bad days will happen and the scores near 100 are possible, but 122, c'mon.

Blow up holes are possible at SB and some of these other courses listed for the Citizen, but if you play 9 holes in 71 there is something wrong there. The player shot par for the entire course on one nine. Now barring an inury, that shouldn't happen. Hell, I never even shot that high for a nine even when I started playing golf.

I know this will probably open a can of worms, but I'll leave it at that.

I hate to say this buddy, however your handicap is low enough to get into the Citizen and judging from your posts lately under pressure that could have been you shooting that 122...
And don't tell me a low handicapper can't shoot that type of number because I saw you do it on your own home course last summer when you were going thru these same struggles. The only pressure you had that day was me and I shot a mediocre 82...

[Big Johnny69]

Geoff, I did not mention anyone and no I don’t know the guy that shot 122. I will not pretend that 122 seem fishy for a single digit HDCP but I’m not one to judge since I did not play in the tourney. Was this guy hurt, sick…. I have no idea and I don’t have right to judge since I don’t know him.

All I’m saying is that some single digit HDCP players that I know posted abnormal numbers. It’s embarrassing to post that number on the Internet but even worse to question your integrity on this forum the next day.

I hate to say this buddy, however your handicap is low enough to get into the Citizen and judging from your posts lately under pressure that could have been you shooting that 122...
And don't tell me a low handicapper can't shoot that type of number because I saw you do it on your own home course last summer when you were going thru these same struggles. The only pressure you had that day was me and I shot a mediocre 82...

Like I said, it would open a can of worms.

What would I have shot, I don't know. I'm sure we'll find out next year. And if I shoot a 122 I will be the first to come on here and man up to it. Pressure does strange things to people, but I have been coping with it better. This is my third year of competitive golf, and the Intersectionals coming up will be my first big test and you'll have a ringside seat to that Apex.

And in my previous reply you'll see that I said high numbers are a legit possibility. It does happen. And I'm well aware of some of the names and the scores they posted. But in general if you look at their score cards it was a bad hole or two that got them. But like I said also, a low capper can find a way to minimize the damage.

But in my opinion the Citizen should have qualifiers to determine the field. Who cares what your handicap is, if you are one of the low XX of players on said day you're in.

And as for me shooting 122 on my own course, I'm sorry my friend, not even close. The highest I shot last year before adjusted for ESC I believe was a 97 or so. Might've been 100 I don't remember. But with ESC it brought it down to an 89. A wonderful thing that ESC isn't it?

[mjf]

While I agree that somebody shooting 122 is a bit over the top, I have to admit that I've been in the 90s at least once this year. Who knows how I would have shot that day if it was tournament day.

On the other hand, if this had been a handicapped event, I wonder if people would be calling me a sandbagger since my index was around 7 when I entered. According to the Pope of Slope web page, the odds for me beating my index by 4 strokes are 121:1 if I'm reading it correctly.

Stuff happens...

[jvincent]

Geoff, I did not mention anyone and no I don’t know the guy that shot 122. I will not pretend that 122 seem fishy for a single digit HDCP but I’m not one to judge since I did not play in the tourney. Was this guy hurt, sick…. I have no idea and I don’t have right to judge since I don’t know him.

I just looked at what I believe to be the scoring record for the person in question based on the info provided and the posted scores suggest he's a legit 6.2. For whatever reason he had a horrible day.

I'm sure there could have been reasons (injury or illness) that resulted in the 122 but we will probably never know.

I think the issue is that what do you do with that person next year? Should they be allowed in or should they be required to take a year off?

Remember, the field was full this year.

[Big Johnny69]

While I agree that somebody shooting 122 is a bit over the top, I have to admit that I've been in the 90s at least once this year. Who knows how I would have shot that day if it was tournament day.

On the other hand, if this had been a handicapped event, I wonder if people would be calling me a sandbagger since my index was around 7 when I entered. According to the Pope of Slope web page, the odds for me beating my index by 4 strokes are 121:1 if I'm reading it correctly.

Stuff happens...

Stuff indeed can happen Mike. I myself once shot even par at my old course (twice) and was both times around a six when it happened. I'd be more inclined to believe a 6 or 7 shot a 73 or 74 then a six or seven shooting 120+. But like you said, it happens.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not calling this guy out, I'm simply stating this is one of the aspects (letting people in the tourney with false caps) that has bothered some people about the Citizen tourney.

And John makes a good point, what should happen in a situation like that?

[Big Johnny69]

mberube, you said you didn't play, but I thought I saw your name on one of the big score sheets? Another mberube perhaps???

[jvincent]

On the other hand, if this had been a handicapped event, I wonder if people would be calling me a sandbagger since my index was around 7 when I entered. According to the Pope of Slope web page, the odds for me beating my index by 4 strokes are 121:1 if I'm reading it correctly.

Stuff happens...

Yes, but if you look at your scoring record there are a bunch of sub-80 rounds in it recently so you are trending down.

[golfisforfun]

I am sorry but 122 is just plain bad. Only 3 shots better than a triple bogey average on each hole. Maybe the guy was injured, and if so, that is unfortunate. But there were a lot of scores that are just too poor for single digit golfers.
And yes, maybe they are members of this group but I don't know them and I am sure they are great people but the bottom line is, anybody who is a single digit handicap golfer should not shoot over 100 on a course like Stonebridge.

No, I am not playing in this tourney, and no, I don't know what the pressure is like in the Ottawa Citizen Amateur. I do know that it should be fun just like any other tourney because it isn't like this is a springboard to a great career in pro golf. It is just a tourney that single digit handicaps golfers are supposed to play in and maybe golf fans in Ottawa might go out and watch...

But who is going to go watch when we see scores in the 100's...

[jvincent]

mberube, you said you didn't play, but I thought I saw your name on one of the big score sheets? Another mberube perhaps???

It's his evil twin that plays out of Tecumseh.

[mberube]

mberube, you said you didn't play, but I thought I saw your name on one of the big score sheets? Another mberube perhaps???

Same name different guy. I’m from HP he is from Tecumseh. I wish it was me but with a different score… Next year dude!

Good thing I did play this year. My HDCP rose from 4.4 to 6.7. I’m the one who would have probably shot a horrendous number. It's that type of season.

[mberube]

I am sorry but 122 is just plain bad. Only 3 shots better than a triple bogey average on each hole. Maybe the guy was injured, and if so, that is unfortunate. But there were a lot of scores that are just too poor for single digit golfers.
And yes, maybe they are members of this group but I don't know them and I am sure they are great people but the bottom line is, anybody who is a single digit handicap golfer should not shoot over 100 on a course like Stonebridge.

No, I am not playing in this tourney, and no, I don't know what the pressure is like in the Ottawa Citizen Amateur. I do know that it should be fun just like any other tourney because it isn't like this is a springboard to a great career in pro golf. It is just a tourney that single digit handicaps golfers are supposed to play in and maybe golf fans in Ottawa might go out and watch...

But who is going to go watch when we see scores in the 100's...

It has nothing to do with who is watching. It has everything to do with personal achievements, pride and ego. None of these guys will make a career out of golf but it does not mean that they are not proud of their game and wish they could have a glimpse of greatness once in their golf life.

[funk-like]

In terms of the 122, I don't think any of us are in a position to comment, unless we know what happened. I would guess it was an injury, and it got worse as the day progressed. Maybe he was worried he would not be allowed to enter next year if he pulled out? This is just speculation.
In terms of the other scores, I know a +1 who shot 80 and a 1 who shot 84, and I am a 5 and I shot 86. The conditions were tough, the pressure is real, and there are some PGA events where the pros shoot 80, or 82 or something like that so it can happen to anyone.
For those that question the Citizen in terms of qualifying, or the 'sandbaggers', or calling the tournament an advertising ploy, I guess I would say if you don't like it, don't enter, don't follow it and don't worry about it.
For those that have the guts to enter, and have your name and whatever score you shoot posted for all to see, I say congrats on doing that - its tougher to do than sitting back and being an armchair quarterback the day after.
To my fellow competitors - Play well and have fun and don't worry about the comments of others.

[jvincent]

Maybe he was worried he would not be allowed to enter next year if he pulled out?

This is the problem I have. What about the two guys he was playing with? Certainly they must have been impacted by his play. Was it fair to them for him to continue, what if they got put on the clock? If it's going that poorly and withdrawing is the best thing for you to do, then you should do it and accept the consequences.

For those that have the guts to enter, and have your name and whatever score you shoot posted for all to see, I say congrats on doing that - its tougher to do than sitting back and being an armchair quarterback the day after.

Agreed. Although I didn't play my best, it was still fun and I'm looking forward to the second round. Maybe I'll catch lightning in a bottle and post a good number.

[John]

[QUOTE=Geoff Johnston;192701]Like I said, it would open a can of worms.

What would I have shot, I don't know. I'm sure we'll find out next year. And if I shoot a 122 I will be the first to come on here and man up to it. Pressure does strange things to people, but I have been coping with it better. This is my third year of competitive golf, and the Intersectionals coming up will be my first big test and you'll have a ringside seat to that Apex.

And in my previous reply you'll see that I said high numbers are a legit possibility. It does happen. And I'm well aware of some of the names and the scores they posted. But in general if you look at their score cards it was a bad hole or two that got them. But like I said also, a low capper can find a way to minimize the damage.

But in my opinion the Citizen should have qualifiers to determine the field. Who cares what your handicap is, if you are one of the low XX of players on said day you're in.

And as for me shooting 122 on my own course, I'm sorry my friend, not even close. The highest I shot last year before adjusted for ESC I believe was a 97 or so. Might've been 100 I don't remember. But with ESC it brought it down to an 89. A wonderful thing that ESC isn't it? [/QUOTE]



You've got to explain this ESC to me, because i'm having trouble understanding how it makes sense. Obviously if your shooting higher scores and taking doubles and triples your handicap should reflect that shouldn't it? ESC seems like a way out to me to keep the handicap down even if you should be at a higher cap...?

[jvincent]

You've got to explain this ESC to me, because i'm having trouble understanding how it makes sense. Obviously if your shooting higher scores and taking doubles and triples your handicap should reflect that shouldn't it? ESC seems like a way out to me to keep the handicap down even if you should be at a higher cap...?

ESC is the mechanism to cancel out the effect of "brain fart" holes on your handicap.

It basically limits how fast your handicap can rise. It's not a perfect system, but it's pretty good. There are a couple of threads that discuss it.

[jeffc]

if he was worried if withdrawing was going to affect his chances for next year, just imagine what effect shooting a 122 will have on his chances next year.

[3Jack]

anybody who is a single digit handicap golfer should not shoot over 100 on a course like Stonebridge.

I think I might have stirred up this entire mess by making the first comment on the 122, but Stonebridge is far from being easy.

[hoolio]

This is the problem I have. What about the two guys he was playing with? Certainly they must have been impacted by his play. Was it fair to them for him to continue, what if they got put on the clock? If it's going that poorly and withdrawing is the best thing for you to do, then you should do it and accept the consequences.

It's not just the two guys he's playing with, its the entire field behind him. Exactly how fast can one put up a 122 at Stonebridge? To me that sounds like alot of hacking through fescue looking for lost balls which definitely slows down play.

I remember a buddy of mine telling me about playing one of the first years the Citizen tourny was run and he said the round was between 6.5 and 7 hours (I think it was at Stonebridge). He was talking about it with a couple of other guys he knew and one guy chips up and says "yeah sorry guys, some of that was me, I took about 45 mins on one hole and made a 12". I think that guy shot around 90, but imagine the impact that 1 hole had on the field. If this guy had multiple double-digit holes, he must have put the breaks on the rest of the groups behind him.

[Nat Williams]

45mins on one hole!!!

they ought to have taken him out back and beat him with a hose!

[hoolio]

45mins on one hole!!!

they ought to have taken him out back and beat him with a hose!

I'm pretty sure that's what I heard. I wouldn't quote me on it as I was likely into the sauce pretty heavily that day.

[golfisforfun]

The entire ESC handicap thing to me is a bit weird and yes this is off topic, so maybe we can start a new discussion because I sure would like someone to explain to me why you deserve to get your score adjusted due to "brain farts" on the course...

[Indio]

The entire ESC handicap thing to me is a bit weird and yes this is off topic, so maybe we can start a new discussion because I sure would like someone to explain to me why you deserve to get your score adjusted due to "brain farts" on the course...

It is to stop the sandbaggers fromrunning up thier cap with a copuple of really bad holes just before a tournament.... the honest golfers pay a price because of the sandbaggers.