Relief from a French Drain…

[Sphere Hunter]

You're in a french drain. The depression is about 3 feet wide and runs along a 30 foot distance. The gravel in the drain is about 20" wide, centred along the bottom of the drain.

When taking relief and establishing nearest point of relief, are you taking relief from the gravel in the drain or the depression that funnels the water into the drain? In other words if your ball is in the depression but not in the gravel, do you get relief? If your ball is in the gravel, does your stance have to be flat to be considered relief or can you stand in the depression, but not in the gravel and be considered to have relief from the drain?
I know it's kinda technical but it makes a difference.

[BC MIST]

You're in a french drain. The depression is about 3 feet wide and runs along a 30 foot distance. The gravel in the drain is about 20" wide, centred along the bottom of the drain.

When taking relief and establishing nearest point of relief, are you taking relief from the gravel in the drain or the depression that funnels the water into the drain? In other words if your ball is in the depression but not in the gravel, do you get relief? If your ball is in the gravel, does your stance have to be flat to be considered relief or can you stand in the depression, but not in the gravel and be considered to have relief from the drain?
I know it's kinda technical but it makes a difference.

A French drain is an immovable obstruction and so relief may be taken in accordance with 24-2 b, 1. If choosing to take relief one must take complete relief in avoiding the condition. The condition in this case is the stone or stones that make up the drain. Therefore, in determining the nearest point of relief one must not stand on the stones, nor must the ball lie on the stones. The fact that there is a depression or that your stance may not be flat is not a factor. Simply, if your ball or your feet are on the stones when taking a normal setup, you are entitled to relief.

It is quite possible to have the stones/drain running parallel to your stance, between your feet and the ball, and relief would NOT be granted. We have a few like this at our course, (#6, #10, #13 and a couple on the new 9)

I stand to be corrected, but I believe that the committee must declare that relief may be taken from French drains. 33-8

[Sphere Hunter]

Thanks BC MIST. That's what I thought, but I wasn't 100% sure.

A French drain is an immovable obstruction and so relief may be taken in accordance with 24-2 b, 1. If choosing to take relief one must take complete relief in avoiding the condition. The condition in this case is the stone or stones that make up the drain. Therefore, in determining the nearest point of relief one must not stand on the stones, nor must the ball lie on the stones. The fact that there is a depression or that your stance may not be flat is not a factor. Simply, if your ball or your feet are on the stones when taking a normal setup, you are entitled to relief.

It is quite possible to have the stones/drain running parallel to your stance, between your feet and the ball, and relief would NOT be granted. We have a few like this at our course, (#6, #10, #13 and a couple on the new 9)

I stand to be corrected, but I believe that the committee must declare that relief may be taken from French drains. 33-8

[gbower]

You beat me to this one and I think you nailed it on the head. I had to show how to take relief from a FD at Mississippi Monday and the competitor didn't know if he was entitled to it or not. Must be full relief and it doesn't necessarily give you a nice stance or lie. If there was water in the depression then it would be casual water.

[AAA]

A French drain is an immovable obstruction and so relief may be taken in accordance with 24-2 b, 1.
I stand to be corrected, but I believe that the committee must declare that relief may be taken from French drains. 33-8

As you say, a french drain (not turfed over) is by definition an immovable obstruction. And because of this relief is available as of right.
However, because many the edges of such drains tend to get overgrown with grass, the margin can be difficult to determine. For this reason the USGA recommend that french drains are deemed to be GUR. A Local Rule should then be published to this effect and the margins clearely indicated with white lines.

[big mac]

GUR--means work not completed