Senators-Ducks : The finals

[knickers]

It doesn't matter if Pronger "intended" to hit him in the head or not, it was a head shot, which intentional or not, is grounds for suspension. Are you telling me the entire season went by with head shots that were intentional? Most of the time they guy is going for a hit and clips the other player with the elbow.

Headshots have not been taken out of the NHL as of yet. They have been taken out of junior hockey. The GM's and the leauge will be looking at this during the offseson. This was a clear elbow however and warrented a suspension. But a clean hit to the head is perfectly acceptable right now. ie. Armstrongs hit on Eaves in the first round. That was a clean hit to the head by the leauge's rules. And a beautiful hit if I may say so myself.

Prongner has played this type of game since he was playing with the Petes. He's a player that is hated where ever he go's. But a great defenceman and will be missed by the Ducks tonight.

[Txxxxxxx]

Headshots have not been taken out of the NHL as of yet. They have been taken out of junior hockey. The GM's and the leauge will be looking at this during the offseson. This was a clear elbow however and warrented a suspension. But a clean hit to the head is perfectly acceptable right now. ie. Armstrongs hit on Eaves in the first round. That was a clean hit to the head by the leauge's rules. And a beautiful hit if I may say so myself.

Prongner has played this type of game since he was playing with the Petes. He's a player that is hated where ever he go's. But a great defenceman and will be missed by the Ducks tonight.

You're right, head shots have not been taken out of the league yet, BUT, a head shot like the one on Eaves where Armstrong hit him with his head down, compared to an elbow in the head, are two different scenarios.

Elbows or hands to the head on a hit, unless incidental without arm action, have never been allowed in the NHL. This hit was a perfect example of an elbow to the head that resulted in a suspension.

I don't think the one game was enough to tell you the truth. The first offense was only last series, not the first round of the playoffs or the end of the regular season. I was expecting two games minimum. I've seen other players suspended in the playoffs for similar incidents that were actually called a penalty during the game.

Anyway, Pronger didn't make a difference for Anaheim in game 2. He was more of a help for Ottawa, so missing him for a game isn't really going to make or break the Ducks.

[Shivas Irons]

If this type of play is not goon-like, which I think it was, then what type of play would qualify for that descriptor?

The exact same play involving a different player of lesser talent would qualify as goon-like. The NHL seems more concerned with who did it rather than what happened. The fact that every official on the ice failed to see Pronger's forearm shiver is pathetic considering that everyone else who was watching the game saw the violation. To add insult to injury, Pronger, by his own admission, is a repeat offender who has yet to be appropriately punished for his actions.
I guess the NHL wants good old-fashioned eye-for-an-eye hockey, meaning one of our guys needs to throw an elbow to the head of Giguere, or Selanne, or both.

[Txxxxxxx]

The exact same play involving a different player of lesser talent would qualify as goon-like. The NHL seems more concerned with who did it rather than what happened. The fact that every official on the ice failed to see Pronger's forearm shiver is pathetic considering that everyone else who was watching the game saw the violation. To add insult to injury, Pronger, by his own admission, is a repeat offender who has yet to be appropriately punished for his actions.
I guess the NHL wants good old-fashioned eye-for-an-eye hockey, meaning one of our guys needs to throw an elbow to the head of Giguere, or Selanne, or both.

Agreed. I'm still confused as to why none of the 4 officials on the ice saw the incident, or if they did see it, why they figured a penalty was not warranted. I mean the officials seem to think if a stick touches another players arm, it's an automatic hooking call. They have no issues see that type of thing.

Oh well....Hopefully Ottawa evens it up tonight and makes a series of it.

[Golfer_Gofer]

Well the referees were terrible that whole game. I mean the hit Neil through on Andy Mac should have been called - either elbow or charging either would have worked. I don't buy burkes comment about it being worth a suspension. No Injury = no suspension. But this is just another example of how the referees were horrible in that one... letting way too much go.

as for why pronger didnt get multiple games...Easy...it was a reaction play. he was standing still and he tried to get his arm out to stop mcammond from walking around him. did he try and elbow him to the head and knock him out? probably and most-likely not, but he did hit his head and thats a head shot so it deserved a suspension.

NOW if pronger was skating at someone (like neil was at andy mac) and brought the elbow up to the head and caused injury the league would have deffinetly laid down a much worse suspension.

[Txxxxxxx]

Well the referees were terrible that whole game. I mean the hit Neil through on Andy Mac should have been called - either elbow or charging either would have worked. I don't buy burkes comment about it being worth a suspension. No Injury = no suspension. But this is just another example of how the referees were horrible in that one... letting way too much go.

as for why pronger didnt get multiple games...Easy...it was a reaction play. he was standing still and he tried to get his arm out to stop mcammond from walking around him. did he try and elbow him to the head and knock him out? probably and most-likely not, but he did hit his head and thats a head shot so it deserved a suspension.

NOW if pronger was skating at someone (like neil was at andy mac) and brought the elbow up to the head and caused injury the league would have deffinetly laid down a much worse suspension.

Neil's hit was a charge for sure and should have been called, but the only reason he made contact with McDonald's head was because he ducked to try to get out of the way. McDonald admitted it himself, he said he was trying to duck and get out of the way of the hit. Neil pretty much grazed him and went over top because of the duck.

I don't buy into the Pronger hit being a "reaction" play where he wanted to stop him from getting by. He didn't stick his arm out to stop him. If he was standing still and did not intend to hit him in the head, he wouldn't have brought his elbow back in so quickly to disguise the action. If he was merely trying to stop him from getting by because he got caught standing still, he would have reached out with his arm, not given him a shot in the head with his elbow.

[Golfer_Gofer]

Neil's hit was a charge for sure and should have been called, but the only reason he made contact with McDonald's head was because he ducked to try to get out of the way. McDonald admitted it himself, he said he was trying to duck and get out of the way of the hit. Neil pretty much grazed him and went over top because of the duck.

I don't buy into the Pronger hit being a "reaction" play where he wanted to stop him from getting by. He didn't stick his arm out to stop him. If he was standing still and did not intend to hit him in the head, he wouldn't have brought his elbow back in so quickly to disguise the action. If he was merely trying to stop him from getting by because he got caught standing still, he would have reached out with his arm, not given him a shot in the head with his elbow.

as always, I disagree! pronger didnt have a lot of time to think..he stuck out his elbow that way to avoid a penality...if Mccammond wasnt such a small guy pronger would have gotten him in the shoulder and it would have just been another hockey play....if he had stuck out his arm and held him up he would have gotten 2 mins for holding....

[Txxxxxxx]

as always, I disagree! pronger didnt have a lot of time to think..he stuck out his elbow that way to avoid a penality...if Mccammond wasnt such a small guy pronger would have gotten him in the shoulder and it would have just been another hockey play....if he had stuck out his arm and held him up he would have gotten 2 mins for holding....

Just wondering...Have you ever played hockey before? I know the guys I spoke with, one of them Adrian Aucoin who is close friends with my neighbor, whom also played for the Gloucester Rangers in Ottawa, said the first thing he would have done if someone was beating him would be stick out his arm. I've done it on more than one occasion in the ECHL and received a holding or interference penalty.

It's not natural instinct to jam a guy in the side of the head with your elbow, then retract your arm quickly to disguise the action.

[Shivas Irons]

...if Mccammond wasnt such a small guy pronger would have gotten him in the shoulder and it would have just been another hockey play....if he had stuck out his arm and held him up he would have gotten 2 mins for holding....

McAmmond is listed at 5' 11" & 200 lbs - not huge, but not small by any stretch. Pronger did exaclty what he meant to do, and why the refs failed to call it is baffling.

[Golfer_Gofer]

To answer your question I did/do play hockey.. use to play competitive hockey in the MTHL and now just play rec hockey. i was also the referee and cheif for Brampton minor in-line hockey and a Level 2 referee with brampton minor hockey.

and mcammond listed at 5'11 (might be a stetch on his height) is small compared to pronger at 6'-6" thats 7 inch difference.. that puts mcammonds head at prongers shoulders.

[Txxxxxxx]

To answer your question I did/do play hockey.. use to play competitive hockey in the MTHL and now just play rec hockey. i was also the referee and cheif for Brampton minor in-line hockey and a Level 2 referee with brampton minor hockey.

and mcammond listed at 5'11 (might be a stetch on his height) is small compared to pronger at 6'-6" thats 7 inch difference.. that puts mcammonds head at prongers shoulders.

Then you should know that your first instinct when being beaten on a one-on-one is not to jam a guy in the head with your elbow and then try to hide you did it by retracting your arm as quick as possible. I don't know what level MTHL is but I'm sure any competitive player would probably have the same instinct, unless of course he was a goon and head hunting was his game.

Being a referee in the NHL is not the same as in minor hockey nor is it the same as inline. These guys are paid huge dollars to make the calls and be in the proper position to do so. They don't make $15/game like minor hockey refs.

Minor hockey and NHL or pro leagues below it are not the same as minor hockey, and inline hockey is like comparing apples to oranges. I enjoyed playing inline in the NCIHL. We played with a few semi-pro guys from ice hockey, but it's a completely different game. It's a lot slower and the 4on4 without a blue line opens up the game for sure. Good times though for sure, but holy crap. when it was 35 degrees and humidity on top of that, playing in the rink in the evening is like taking a skate in an oven.

I'm confident Pronger knew what he was doing. Nobody in their right mind is going to admit to doing what he did. Of course he's going to say it was a "reaction", but anyone who actually plays that level of hockey disagrees.

In fact, Brad May is one of the biggest tools they interviewed. He couldn't understand why there was a suspension and he said Pronger is a high class player and he didn't deserve it. This was air'd in the same sequence as Pronger admitting he deserved the suspension. It just goes to show you that people will say anything to defend their teammates. I admire that type of defensive confidence to some extent...I mean you wouldn't want your teammates calling you a dirty player and deserving of whatever they hand out, but to say what he did, it makes him look like he's unaware of the rules of the game. I didn't expect any less from May though...He has quite the history of suspensions.

[Golfer_Gofer]

I wasn't trying to say that my referreeing experience is the same as nhl experience, i was just defending my knowledge of the game and the rules.

MTHL is the rep league for the GTA, its as competitve as you can get for minor hockey in the area and unfortunitly I couldnt go any further as a dislocated shoulder followed by multiple dislocations made me have to give up contact hockey.

and actually my first instinct would not be to grab somebody who was trying to go around me as i already said thats a holding penality and the last thing i'd want to do is put my team down a man. my first instinct would be to get some body on him and knock himdown, which is still what i think pronger was trying to do.

Glad to hear you were in the NCIHL. My father started the brampton minor in-line league and I played it in for years. Went to NARCH one year and even tried out for the under 16- team canada team but got cut prety early. BUT i dont think my experience refereeing the game is irrelevent completly as almost all of the penalities are the same.

[jonf]

Agreed. I'm still confused as to why none of the 4 officials on the ice saw the incident, or if they did see it, why they figured a penalty was not warranted. I mean the officials seem to think if a stick touches another players arm, it's an automatic hooking call. They have no issues see that type of thing.

Oh well....Hopefully Ottawa evens it up tonight and makes a series of it.

Nobody saw it because it was a quick play, and hard to tell whether it was an elbow at full speed. You can't call a penatly unless you're sure.


Hacker....there's nothing illegal about hitting someone in the head. Prongers natural hockey instinct was to impede the opposing player, and he did so by sticking out his arm. I have seen Volchenkov and Phillips etc. do the exact same thing many times before. The only difference is that Mcammond went down. So give the Pronger is a goon thing a rest. Most defencemen in the league have done the exact same thing, many times. But if the player gets up, it won't be a penalty. See Neil's hit on McDonald earlier in the game.

[Txxxxxxx]

I wasn't trying to say that my referreeing experience is the same as nhl experience, i was just defending my knowledge of the game and the rules.

MTHL is the rep league for the GTA, its as competitve as you can get for minor hockey in the area and unfortunitly I couldnt go any further as a dislocated shoulder followed by multiple dislocations made me have to give up contact hockey.

and actually my first instinct would not be to grab somebody who was trying to go around me as i already said thats a holding penality and the last thing i'd want to do is put my team down a man. my first instinct would be to get some body on him and knock himdown, which is still what i think pronger was trying to do.

Glad to hear you were in the NCIHL. My father started the brampton minor in-line league and I played it in for years. Went to NARCH one year and even tried out for the under 16- team canada team but got cut prety early. BUT i dont think my experience refereeing the game is irrelevent completly as almost all of the penalities are the same.

Rep would be what? A? I played lots of hockey tournaments against GTA area teams and I'm pretty sure they were AAA teams. We played against Newmarket Express, Toronto Marlies, etc...What is rep?

As for your experience, all I'm trying to do is compare it. The guys on the ice make hundreds of thousands a year to be professional and see everything they can. Minor hockey refs get paid $15/game.

As for Pronger and his "reaction". Do you actually think he thought by jamming McAmmond in the face, he wasn't going to get a penalty? Sticking his arm to hold him or mashing him in the side of the head, he'd get a penalty either way. It was a farce that they missed the call.

I'm telling you right now, in a high level of hockey where you are on television or under the microscope, your first instinct is not to injure the player you are defending or hand out a blow to the head, no matter how tall you are. There's no grey area there...

[Txxxxxxx]

Nobody saw it because it was a quick play, and hard to tell whether it was an elbow at full speed. You can't call a penatly unless you're sure.


Hacker....there's nothing illegal about hitting someone in the head. Prongers natural hockey instinct was to impede the opposing player, and he did so by sticking out his arm. I have seen Volchenkov and Phillips etc. do the exact same thing many times before. The only difference is that Mcammond went down. So give the Pronger is a goon thing a rest. Most defencemen in the league have done the exact same thing, many times. But if the player gets up, it won't be a penalty. See Neil's hit on McDonald earlier in the game.

Ummmm....Are you serious? I saw what happened and I was watching it on TV man. It's not like they were in the middle of a scrum along the boards and one, or all in this case, of the officials views were impeded by someone/something. It happened in open ice, not away from the play, and there was an official 10 feet away. In fact the puck and the player ended up at the officials feet.

Pronger clearly pulled his elbow back in to hide the fact it was an elbow to the head. Neil's hit was a charge, but if McDonald wouldn't have ducked down, his hands would have been in his shoulder like a normal hit would be. He didn't try to hide the fact his hands were up.

Pronger is a self proclaimed goon. He was the same way when he was here in Edmonton last season. He says that's the way he has to play in order to be effective. If that's not self-proclamation, I don't know what is.

[Golfer_Gofer]

Rep = all the A's... I played AAA for the toronto huskies...the mthl was big enough to have C, B, A, AA, AAA leagues.

[Txxxxxxx]

Rep = all the A's... I played AAA for the toronto huskies...the mthl was big enough to have C, B, A, AA, AAA leagues.

Cool. I think 'Rep' in Ottawa is the first level of contact, then there is A and AA. They have house C, B and A, then Rep, then A, then AA. Our AA teams would play against your AAA teams and our A teams would play against your AA teams.

[Golfer_Gofer]

ya its wierd that every city and town seems to have a different way of organzing their teams... the cha really needs to step up and standardize it....anyway this is thread jacking... back on subject..

Predictions tonight?

[Txxxxxxx]

ya its wierd that every city and town seems to have a different way of organzing their teams... the cha really needs to step up and standardize it....anyway this is thread jacking... back on subject..

Predictions tonight?

Back on topic for sure.

I think the Sens win this one again and make a series of it. That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

[Golfer_Gofer]

im thinking Giggy will step it up tonight... ducks win in a 1 goal game....perhaps even in overtime
gotta love the finals
should be the best game thus far... both teams NEED to win tonight

[Golfer_Gofer]

Wow...i woulda been bang on if i hadnt been bold and called overtime.. damnit
good game though....the refs blew calls going both ways so not sure what the media will have to talk about tomorrow

[Txxxxxxx]

Wow...i woulda been bang on if i hadnt been bold and called overtime.. damnit
good game though....the refs blew calls going both ways so not sure what the media will have to talk about tomorrow

Refs had nothing to do with tonight.

Emery is NOT a Stanley Cup winning goalie. He cannot let in two horrible goals a game and expect his team to score more goals. Granted, a bag of pucks would be a good trade for Redden and Mezaros. They were on for two goals against again tonight, and Anaheim had more than one empty net with them on.

Series over. You heard it first here. No way Ottawa wins 3 in a row, two being in Anaheim.

At least the Oilers showed some effort and made it interesting last year. I can't say the same for 50% of the guys on Ottawa.

[Big Johnny69]

I'm embarrassed to be a Sens fan tonight. A late goal in the first, you'd think they'd come out with lots of emotion and intensity. NOPE!!!! Instead they come out with probably their worst period of the playoffs and it cost them two goals and continued into the third. Its an absolute shame. They worked so hard to overcome all the naysayers and such, and yet they've only played four good periods (and even though they didn't have their best game in game three, at least they played like they wanted it) during the finals. I don't know who to blame more, the players for the lacklustre effort, or the coaching staff for not being able to motivate these guys. I mean c'mon, there is nothing left after this series. What are they waiting for? Leave it all on the ice, once this series is over the season is over. Show a bit of effort and a bit of heart.

Very disappointing to say the least.

[Nat Williams]

Disappointed in Emery ... but as long as there is hope ... SENS IN 7 ... it isn't over until they win 4!

[mpare]

I hate to say it, but the Sens were just awful yesterday. They were outplayed. In fact, the score was quite misleading in that regard. For my part, I don't blame Emery for the loss. The entire team was listless, out of position, and a step behind for most of the evening. Here's hoping that they soon wake up.

[Big Johnny69]

I hate to say it, but the Sens were just awful yesterday. They were outplayed. In fact, the score was quite misleading in that regard. For my part, I don't blame Emery for the loss. The entire team was listless, out of position, and a step behind for most of the evening. Here's hoping that they soon wake up.

I agree 100% with what you have said Mike. But you know how the saying goes, too little too late. Not sure if they can win 3 straight with two being in Anaheim.

[big mac]

I hate to say it, but the Sens were just awful yesterday. They were outplayed. In fact, the score was quite misleading in that regard. For my part, I don't blame Emery for the loss. The entire team was listless, out of position, and a step behind for most of the evening. Here's hoping that they soon wake up.

Could not agree more--they were simply outplayed. They must wake up--why could they not play 3 periods like the first---again too much passing back and forth in 2nd and 3rd. I'm afraid; I'm really afraid.

[jeffc]

Emery was not the problem last night....he didn't have a lot of help on D.

[Big Johnny69]

Emery was not the problem last night....he didn't have a lot of help on D.

He never has much help when WR and AM are on the ice.

Did anyone else see Emery give the look, and a few choice words, to that pairing after the Penner goal? He was not pleased, and nor should he be. Stupid play along the boards by WR..........again.

[Hank Hill]

Looks like it could be over.

Well done to: Phillips, Alfredsson, Fisher, Volchenkov, Vermette, Kelly, McAmmond, Saprykin. You played your guts out in the Stanley Cup Finals.

So-so performances from: Neil, Eaves, Scheaffer, Corvo, Priessing, Schubert, Meszaros, Comrie and Emery.

Players that need to take a damn long look at themselves as leaders and high wage earners: Spezza, Heatley, Redden.