Lost ball

[leftylucas]

Player A hits 2nd shot and his ball bounces into a long patch of grass in the rough. He advances and cannot find his ball (playing partners helped out and could not find it) and he then elects to hit another ball from where he though his ball had disappeared into the rough. He proceeds further up and right of where he (by himself as playing partners left knowing he had hit another ball) was and finds his 1st ball. He proceeds to hit and play out this original ball which he thought was lost.

I believe once he played the 2nd ball that his option to find his original ball was useless as the 2nd ball was now in play. He plays it out to a bogey score and writes this down.

My take is he had a lost ball, he should have returned to the spot where he orginally hit from and is lying 4.

OK, now that Gary is gone, who can help me out?

[Txxxxxxx]

Hmmm....Was the long grass marked as a lateral hazard? If not, I believe there is a stipulation in the rule book for time allotted for finding a lost ball. If the person drops a ball and plays it taking a one stroke penalty, then they find his ball after, he has to take the ball he just played with the one stroke penalty. As for where to drop it....That's a bit fuzzy for me because I think he would have to hit a provisional from the tee if he was to re hit from there, but otherwise, I think he can take a drop with penalty where he and his playing partners agree the ball might have entered the long grass...I know that's the way we play, but I'm not sure if that's absolutely correct. For obvious reasons, it's more convenient and keeps the pace of play going if you hit from where you think it entered rather then going back to the tee.


Anyone know the official explanation?

[leftylucas]

It was his 2nd shot on a par 5 so no provisional. I am pretty sure that once you decide to hit ball no.2 then that is the ball in play with a penalty for a lost ball. The rough was not marked as a hazard.

[Kilroy]

My take is he had a lost ball, he should have returned to the spot where he orginally hit from and is lying 4.

Correct.

I believe once he played the 2nd ball that his option to find his original ball was useless as the 2nd ball was now in play.

3 things.
1) He played from the wrong place.
2) He would have had to play the second ball declaring it to be a provisional. Without the declaration, it's in play.
3) You can't play your provisional after going forward to look for the ball

He plays it out to a bogey score and writes this down.

He has no score for the hole.
If he keeps a handicap he should mark his maximum score using Equitable Stroke Control (ESC)
If he's playing in a match he loses the hole.

If he's just playing for fun it's nice to know the rule, but it is not always practcal to return to the spot where you last played. Always hit a provisional if the ball may be lost. ie: hit into forrest or long unmowed "fescue" grass.

Hope this helps

[Txxxxxxx]

f he's just playing for fun it's nice to know the rule, but it is not always practcal to return to the spot where you last played. Always hit a provisional if the ball may be lost. ie: hit into forrest or long unmowed "fescue" grass.

That's the way we play because it's not very convenient to go back to the tee while another group is standing there waiting. The group in front almost always gets a hole ahead if this happens and the marshall will be all over you.

[leftylucas]

He definitely told us to "forget it, I will just play another one", he dod not say provisional. He hit his "other ball" and continued looking while we walked off and played our balls. One person in our group said that becuase he found his ball furhter up than where he was looking that the original ball could eb played after all. I disagreed with that interpretation as well.

[Kilroy]

That's the way we play because it's not very convenient to go back to the tee while another group is standing there waiting.

If you do play that way, you must mark your max for the hole when handicapping. I'd rather hit the provisional and play by the book. It only takes a moment to hit the provisional if there is any doubt you can find it.

Dropping where it went into the nasty stuff is only (properly) used for hazzards. Forrests and wild areas are not hazzards unless marked with red or yellow stakes.

[Kilroy]

He definitely told us to "forget it, I will just play another one",

He did not return to where he hit the original ball so he was dead right there. He played from a wrong place.

A provisional ball can only be hit before going forward to look for the original. IF he had walked back properly after looking and played a second ball it would NOT be a provisional. If the original was then found it would be too late.

[leftylucas]

Man, this was my first tourney game and I did not want to be seen as a real pri@$ so I did not bring it up to the Tourney Director but I did state my case before the score was written down. One of the other players in the group disagreed with me but I still stated that I thought I was right.

[Txxxxxxx]

If you do play that way, you must mark your max for the hole when handicapping. I'd rather hit the provisional and play by the book. It only takes a moment to hit the provisional if there is any doubt you can find it.

Dropping where it went into the nasty stuff is only (properly) used for hazzards. Forrests and wild areas are not hazzards unless marked with red or yellow stakes.

I quoted the provisional part of your comment as well. I always hit provisionals if we don't see a ball bounce or where it ended up. Most of the people I play with don't keep handicaps because they aren't very good in the first place, so they will just drop a ball without risking losing two.

[Kilroy]

Well it's too late now, but you had it right. In a tourney players must play by the RCGA rules of golf. "We usually play this way" isn't acceptable.

You should speak up at the time and inform them of the rule. Let them play as they wish, and then if you feel they played not in accordance with the rule just politely inform the committee what happened, the questions that were raised as to proper proceedure, and let them deal with it.

If the player feels you are snitching on them or takes offence, they are incorrect. There are 40 or so other players who's rankings are affected by not wanting to speak up.

[Kilroy]

Most of the people I play with don't keep handicaps because they aren't very good in the first place, so they will just drop a ball without risking losing two.

Well it does happen sometimes that I lose a ball in the rough too, we all do. If I can, I'll go back and rehit and accept my stroke and distance. If it's too busy, I drop a ball and move on. I then mark an X on the card. Double bogey for my handicap. I lose the hole. My buddy laughs at me. I'll get over it LOL!

[Txxxxxxx]

Well it does happen sometimes that I lose a ball in the rough too, we all do. If I can, I'll go back and rehit and accept my stroke and distance. If it's too busy, I drop a ball and move on. I then mark an X on the card. Double bogey for my handicap. I lose the hole. My buddy laughs at me. I'll get over it LOL!

Same here. I had to mark a couple of X's the other day. It was a despicable round to say the least.

[BC MIST]

Player A hits 2nd shot and his ball bounces into a long patch of grass in the rough. He advances and cannot find his ball (playing partners helped out and could not find it) and he then elects to hit another ball from where he though his ball had disappeared into the rough. He proceeds further up and right of where he (by himself as playing partners left knowing he had hit another ball) was and finds his 1st ball. He proceeds to hit and play out this original ball which he thought was lost.

I believe once he played the 2nd ball that his option to find his original ball was useless as the 2nd ball was now in play. He plays it out to a bogey score and writes this down.

My take is he had a lost ball, he should have returned to the spot where he orginally hit from and is lying 4.

Penalties to consider:

1. He played from a wrong place.
2. He lifted the ball he played from the wrong place, without authorization.
3. He played a wrong ball.
4. He failed to correct his mistake before teeing off on the next hole.

And he scored a 5? This is the kind of situation where one definitely speaks up as it is possible that this golfer could win a prize. The best suggestion is to have the player play two balls, declare with which one he intends to score if the rules permit and then get a ruling later. Even if both procedures are wrong, he still may not have put himself in a position to be disqualified, which is the correct outcome.

[Kilroy]

The best suggestion is to have the player play two balls, declare with which one he intends to score if the rules permit and then get a ruling later.

Doh!! I have no idea why I forgot about that proceedure.

[LobWedge]

You should have asked me when you came in Luc. I would have been able to straighten it out for you then and there.

If something happens again like this in the future, and this goes for any NCGT member reading this, please find me and let me know and we can deal with it right away. We know that players don't know all the rules, and we want to help in those situations. The purpose is not to punish the golfer who broke the rule, but to protect the rest of the field, and to educate everyone so that it doesn't happen again.

I'll bring it up in our forums as well.

The tour is based firstly on having fun, but we want it to be fair for all as well.

Cheers, Rich.

[leftylucas]

I definitely will but I did not want to make a big thing out of it and one other player agreed with him so if I would have pushed I felt I would have soured the atmosphere. Chalk it up to a rookie reaction, next time I will be diplomatic and bring it up. My whole purpose of asking was becuase I felt I was not the only one affected but the whole field. Thanks again.

[Colby]

Luc,

On the tour, because we are using Stableford points, one hole is not too bad as they can only get points up to a bogie. We had a couple of guys in our foursome just drop and play out the hole, but they got charged the maximum for the hole to ensure that they didn't count points. Your situation sounds a bit different though.

All in all a learning experience.

[leftylucas]

You got it, as I said I did not want to make a big stink about it but at the same time I need to protect myself and the other players. Lesson learned but I still had a great time with my group.