Tips from Long Hitters

[Curious George]

I notice a few "long hitting" names. I hit my driver about 250, if its nicely hit. A few times, I've hit it 270, and once or twice 300.

Long hitters: do you coil more? transfer weight more? Kill it? What's your accuracy like? I've seen guys smoke it consistently. Large guys, I understand, but I've seen small guys smoke it too.

Any hints?

[golfdoc]

I am not a big guy but I usually get it our there around 265.

There are 3 factors in my opinion: equipment, coil; swing path

The type of driver and ball DO make a distance. Plain and simple.

The amount you can coil your body and hold off on releasing makes a big difference. Make sure you uncoil from the bottom up. Last thing to move should be your hands.

With an outside in swing path you will lose distance. It results in a weak power shift and a loss of distance.

[ShaneOttawa]

Originally posted by Curious George
I notice a few "long hitting" names. I hit my driver about 250, if its nicely hit. A few times, I've hit it 270, and once or twice 300.

Long hitters: do you coil more? transfer weight more? Kill it? What's your accuracy like? I've seen guys smoke it consistently. Large guys, I understand, but I've seen small guys smoke it too.

Any hints?

Please don't take this next comment as blowing smoke - I've had rounds where I've consistently driven 290-310 in the fairway, and my longest on-course drive was roughly 340 (got a huge bounce/roll, it was the 18th at Packenham and I had about 165 left to the green). Rounds where I consistently hit those distances were few and far between, however. More typically, my drives over the course of a round were running anywhere between 220 (slice) to 280. When I brought my 300 yard swing to the course, though, I knew I was in for a string of them. Here are my thoughts on generating distance and the need for distance:

- a decent drive for me now is around 270 because I've geared down my swing to improve accuracy. My long drive rounds as described above were few and far between because I had no consistency and was losing a lot of balls. Now I'm hitting fairways in the 240-270 range instead of trees.

- Driving, IMO, is about mechanics and confidence. Develop sound mechanics, and then have the confidence to vigourously execute.

- the long shafted graphite clubs so many of us are using now allow high clubhead speed with relatively little effort. Conversely, attempting to swing fast with them very easily results in the head not coming square at impact because it has so much further to travel in a short time. Take it easy = more distance.

- I'm 6-3 and could be mistaken for a retired CFL lineman (in fact, people have asked if I was). IMO, strength isn't a factor for distance with a driver, but it seems to be with irons.

- Coil may be a factor, IMO, for people with shorter arms because the additional coil might be necessary to generate the clubhead speed.

- the weight transfer should be a natural by-product of the complete swing, and not a separate component. Consciously increasing weight shift strikes me as a recipe for disaster.

- Even on a 420 yard par 4, a 260 yard drive means a putt or chip for your third shot. I figure that for every 10 yards beyond 260 or so, I'm expotentially more likely to be in the trees or the rough. I'd rather be in the fairway, so I'm not thinking to hit my drives more than 260 anymore. They still go longer often enough, but its not something I'm striving for anymore.

- Outside of when I had equipment problems last year (my shafts had softened so everything was high, right and about 210), I've only been consistently outdriven once, and it was by a 16 year old behemouth who was practising for a junior tournament. He hit everything around 340, regardless of whether the dogleg was at 260. Had he been more selective on when to unleash his distance, I'm sure he would have shot low 70's rather than low 80's.


My advice - build a swing where you can confidently put the ball 250-260 in the fairway, and don't worry about the 300 yard bombs. The accuracy/consistency costs of huge drives isn't worth it, particularly if your goal is par on every hole rather than birdie (distance being an advantage for birdies because of more wedges at the pin rather than 7 irons to the middle of the green).

My two cents, anyway, I'd love to be gently corrected on any of my mechanics analysis (or anything else) because as I hasten to point out when my wife asks for help at the range or the course - I'm not a certified professional.

[Andru]

Here are my keys

1) Hit the sweet spot. 1/2 inch either way and you lose 30 yards.

2) Learn how to generate over 105 mph swing with no effort. The one thing that blew me away at the Canadian Open last year was the lack of movement by the touring pros. I watched Charles Howell III and VJ Singh for 15 holes and I swear they never looked like they put more than 75% effort into the swing. Yet the ball flies endlessly off the club face.

Their swings look much faster on television than they do in person. And I figured out why. It's easier to isolate different parts of a golfer in person than on television. Once I was able to visually isolate a golfers arms and shoulders You see how slow they actually moved compared to the club head.

They're hurling the club head through the ball. I often think about this. If I was going to throw the club down the fairway how would I generate the most distance. It seens to work for me.

Now my problem is too much club head speed. I'm hitting 245 yard balloon shots with zero roll. I'm sure with the correct launch angle I can add 30 yards.

So Key. Slow body( slow is relative of course. Slow for you, personally ) fast club head. Which helps with Key #1

If you've never seen the touring pros go do it It's a lesson you'll never forget.

[ShaneOttawa]

Originally posted by Andru


Their swings look much faster on television than they do in person. And I figured out why. It's easier to isolate different parts of a golfer in person than on television. Once I was able to visually isolate a golfers arms and shoulders You see how slow they actually moved compared to the club head.

So Key. Slow body( slow is relative of course. Slow for you, personally ) fast club head. Which helps with Key #1

I remember reading/hearing an analysis of Ernie Els' swing that basically concluded that his swing is dead slow except for an explosion that begins microseconds before impact just as the club is starting to square. Sounds consistent with your analysis of what you saw live at the Canadian Open.

[LongHitta]

ITS ALL ABOUT CONFIDENCE!!

When i first started playing at 16, I could Drive it well, but my irons weren't very long. Its only in the past year or 2 that I've been able to get the distance on my irons. I feel really lucky becuase i'm so young(22) and have got control of my distances with all my clubs.
I beleive there are some rules to follow if your looking to lock down yoru distances.
Rule#1: Practice makes perfect, can't stress that enough.
Rule#2: If you have a decent driver or clubs, and still can't make the distance, don't change them, i've seen too many guys blame the clubs, look somewhere else(technique, grip, ball, posture).
Rule#3: Don't kill it!! I used to try and bomb everything 300 yrds, i probably got it that far sometimes, but it wasn't straight anytime.
Work on accuracy before beefing up the swing.
Rule#4: Buy a Jack Nicklaus videotape(Best thing i ever did)

and most of all, don't get frustrated if you can't hit the consistent 275 yrd drive, I usually outdrive people i play with , doesn't mean I beat them, you still have to be accurate, and have a good short game.
*Emphasize the keys to your game that work well, and use them in your rounds

[Curious George]

Thanks guys, appreciate the tips.

In response to LongHitta, that is not a problem (accuracy or approaches to the green). I've practiced the hell out of my short game and iron game. I'm very accurate (lots of lasers right at the flag, as needed). I've neglected sand work and driving. I've always been on the short-distance size, but I don't mind with my irons.

I can hit my drive fairly accurately, and fairly consistently, but I need a little extra distance. I'm 5'11" and 180, and I've always been good at sports, so I think I can squeeze a bit more out of the distance, and maintain accuracy. Also, as I age, I need all the extra I can muster.

I strongly believe I'm capable of 270, but haven't made all that connection. I still find the driver more difficult than other clubs, and yes I have a good driver for my swing and size, and use good long distance balls.

All that's left is technique. Thanks again, I'll just work more on it and let you know if it improves.

[LBH]

I don't know if it's really a tip in terms of things to do with your swing, but for me, my key to hitting it really long is to put the ball as far from myself as I can... The closer the ball is, greater are the chances I will not hit it in the sweet spot so I lose distance. I also have a low ball trajectory with a slight draw so I usually get lots and lots of roll. I used to have a high ball trajectory so I didn't get as much roll and distance.

Now if I could only work on that occasional pull or duck hook....

[natgolfer]

While I would love to be able to hit my drives farther, I will never, I repeat, never, sacrifice accuracy for distance. 250 in the fairway will almost always outscore 300 from the rough or trees.

Those who can hit the ball long have an inate ability to move their arms faster than we mortals, just like some can jump higher or run faster than others. It's in the genes. Now, a fundamentally correct golf swing, where the golfer gets the club into the 6/100ths position consistently, will add some yardage, as will using the correct ball for your swing, however, long hitters are born, not made.

No offence to some of my playing partners who read this board, and who outdrive me by 50 yards or more, but why do I usually outscore them? Accuracy, good short game, good putting and good course management.

If you are not hitting 12 of 14 fairways per round, stop trying to hit the ball farther, until you can 12 of 14.

There are still those around who think and who teach that a huge turn of the shoulders will add yardage. The truth is that roughly 90% of your power comes from the correct motion of your right(trail) arm. All the motion of the body does is to put you into a position where the right arm can extend(release) at the proper time, providing you with maximum power. The correct motion of the body CONSERVES your built up, right arm power, until the last split second, but does not CREATE it. Turning you left(lead) shoulder joint until it is opposite the ball, is all the you need. Anything past that is wasted motion and will diminish club head speed.

When you see the pros in person, many are in awe as to how slow they swing and yet how far the ball goes. Els, for example, hits it far with a slow swing because he maintains his leverage angle until 6/100ths or later. That's the key. Swing better, not harder.

BTW: Using the physics formula for work, if you want to increase your club head speed from 90 to 100 mph, an 11% increase, you have to swing roughly 23% harder. How can you swing 23% harder than you now do and maintain control? You can't!

[LobWedge]

Three key things to remember when you want to squeeze every yard out of your tee shots:

1) Maintain your balance. (Stay inside your feet)

2) Easy on the grip pressure. (Tension kills)

3) Finish your swing. (All the way back, and all the way through)


LET THE BIG DAWG EAT!!

[stanley]

As a very short hitter, it's good to hear some opinions from guys who can smoke it out there.

I'm still struggling with my drives. (bought and sold 2 drivers this year already. back to my 3 and 5 wood)

As much as a short game "is everything", if you can't get off the tee properly...

Anything will help.

[LongHitta]

If you've worked out the rest of your game and hitting off the tee is still hurting you. Look into some lessons, check out Kevin Haime , get them to look at your swing and see if you can get more distance and accuracy off the tee, but maybe you can't, some people just can't hit it long, i know a couple of scratch golfers that don't even carry a driver, they use irons or mid woods off the tee, dead straight every time. THe one problem with going to the teaching pros is you might have to revamp your swing, which can mess up your game for a year or so.

[LongHitta]

also, one more thing you can check out if you haven't... look into a variety of drivers, there are good ones out there that aren't necessarily expensive. I just bought last years Deep Red, and its very forgiving, a short hitter would benefit from this club. Taylor Made 300 series drivers are also worth while, Callaway Steelhead, or VFT drivers, the list is big.

Check out some demos

[Andru]

Originally posted by natgolfer
BTW: Using the physics formula for work, if you want to increase your club head speed from 90 to 100 mph, an 11% increase, you have to swing roughly 23% harder. How can you swing 23% harder than you now do and maintain control? You can't!

This isn't true. You can't apply the basic work formula in this manner because you're ignoring the mechanical advantages built into the golf club.

From the spinning the "ball on a string" example Refresher here. Attch a tennis ball to the end of a string and swing the ball in a circle.

The velocity of your hand spinning the ball is much slower than the the velocity of the ball rotating around your hand.

Imagine the ball as the club head. the shaft as the string. The club head rotates around the handle faster than the handle rotates around your body.

I'm not going to do the MATH it's been too long. but the point finally .....

To increase your club head speed by 11% say 90 to 100 MPH you won't have to apply 23% more body force. Taking into account the advantages built into your body [hands rotating around your body] and the club [ club head rotating around your hands ] it's actually much less and yes we can all strive to accomplish this.

Cheers and good golfing.

[golfdoc]

I believe it was Jim Maclean on the Golff Channel so stated...

With today's technology, a 100mph swing, on the right path, hitting the ball on the centre of the clubface will result in 260 yards distance.

Aim for that.

[stanley]

Thanks Longhitta. I was thinking of taking a lesson or two this year. I've taken three since I started playing golf. (4 yrs ago)
I actually think my technique is generally good. My backswing is ok, I think. It's my downswing/weight shift/finish that I have trouble with... with my woods mostly.

I may never smoke it like some of you guys, but it would be nice to come into the green (at least try to) with an 8 iron instead of a 4 or 5.

[Ty Webb]

What about those >400cc drivers (VW Bugs on a stick)? Will they help a high handicapper? I tried my buddies last year but couldn't hit it as I laughed too hard.

Ty

[ShaneOttawa]

Originally posted by Ty Webb
What about those >400cc drivers (VW Bugs on a stick)? Will they help a high handicapper? I tried my buddies last year but couldn't hit it as I laughed too hard.

Ty

Apparently, 400-420 cc's is the point of diminishing returns with head size. Somewhere in there, wind resistance starts kicking during the swing.

My Deep Red is 365cc and I can't imagine using anything bigger.

[Curious George]

Lol...

Excellent advice/info from everyone, I have printed this page, and will spend some time experimenting (on top of my normal workout). I'm quite confident with everything in my bag, except driver, where some days I can do no wrong, and other days...

NatGolfer: I have experimented with the left shoulder/opposite the ball many times, and while I agree I can always hit it well from that position, I don't always get the distance I need (or want). I have had better experience with greater coil (which I know you caution against). The left shoulder/opposite I use when the fairways a little tight, but I need to get out there.

Thanks again, keep up the comments.

[LongHitta]

ShaneOttawa,

I have the 425cc model and its A-W-E-S-O-M-E, I can't beleive how light it is

[ShaneOttawa]

Originally posted by LongHitta
ShaneOttawa,

I have the 425cc model and its A-W-E-S-O-M-E, I can't beleive how light it is

Well, if the wind resistance thing is actually BS, not a big factor or has little effect, then 425 would give incredible confidence off the tee - and I think most of us touched on confidence as being a key to distance.

Now I have to decide if I'm going to tap into my confidence, crank it up a notch and try to outdrive Mike Weir (if we tee off with him on a driving hole) at my corporate outing on Saturday.

[ShaneOttawa]

Originally posted by golfdoc
I believe it was Jim Maclean on the Golff Channel so stated...

With today's technology, a 100mph swing, on the right path, hitting the ball on the centre of the clubface will result in 260 yards distance.

Aim for that.

And I'm not sure that 100mph is that far out of reach for most people, given the extra clubhead speed generated by the length of today's graphite shafts. What keeps the game from being *too* easy, though, is the loss of control that extra length can cause.

[Andru]

All this talk about driving the ball! Geez I think I'll have to get a new driver now!

There's always a excuse for different gear. Actually the biggest mistake I ever made was selling my taylor made 360. Anyone have one for sale?

[Thom Panikorn]

I don't consider myself "long hitter" but I am long for my size (5'6", 125 lb). I am average about 250-265. I can get to 300 many times in the dry condition but i don't try to. Here is how i get there...
I was a straight but short hitter a couple of years ago. One winter i was hitting ball at the Thunderbird indoor driving range and there was an ad about VDO analysis your swing 15 minutes for $10. I decided to have it done. The pro asked what i wanted for the 15 min. I told him i was a straight but short, specially off the tee and i wanted extra 20-30 yards! ( iwas 200-220 yrds. then). He said OK and VDO taped my swing. One tip.....yes one tip and the following season i was 30+ yrds longer. And here it is...KEEP YOUR BACK KNEE FLEX IN YOUR BACK SWING AND DON'T LET THE WEIGHT MOVE TO THE OUTSIDE OF YOUR BACK FOOT.
That was the only lesson i ever took, but i read a lot and try new technique all the time.
Now to be consistent, you need two things...find the right shaft flex for your normal swing speed and practice until you are confident with the club, any titanium head will do the job as long as the shaft is right. And when you practice, try to draw the ball. Do whatever you have to to draw the ball consistently because the draw gives you more roll. The roll is the extra that push you pass that 300 yards.
Try it out and you will surprise your buddies next time out. Good luck.

[natgolfer]

Andru,

The figures I used to demonsrate that it takes a significantly larger percentage of "work" to gain a small increase in club head speed came directly from physisist Jack Kuykendall, the original inventor of "Natural Golf," and the inventor of LPG, Lever Powered Golf, who produced the video "Golf Reform is at Hand."

I will let you dispute the mathematics with the good doctor, www.scigolf.com, however, using my normal "effortless" swing I can hit my pitching wedge about 115 yards. If I swing really hard at it I can get it up to 125 yards. While I am not able to measure my percentage increase in effort here, it strongly suggests to me that the formula is correct.

Your example of the ball on a string is a good way to demonstrate how a golfer can increase his club head speed. If the length of string from your hand to the ball is 6' and the ball is moving at, say, 75 mph, by "shortening the radius of a large arc," that is, by using your other hand to pull the string down through the hand that is doing the twirling, the 6' radius suddenly becomes only 3' so its speed rapidly increases. That is why delaying the unhinging of the right wrist angle is key to creating maximum club head speed.

[Andru]

I like the visual you added to the spinning ball technique.

Originally posted by natgolfer

however, using my normal "effortless" swing I can hit my pitching wedge about 115 yards. If I swing really hard at it I can get it up to 125 yards. While I am not able to measure my percentage increase in effort here, it strongly suggests to me that the formula is correct.

I undestand your point. Another factor at work here is the actual speed of your body. I consulted a friend on this for my own pursuit of distance. Trying harder can have a negative effect on speed. Take a sprinter. there comes a time when working harder creates tension and restricts your muscles from moving freely.

I guess there's also a limit to the speed your body can move. and a limit to the distance a PW can travel. And the effort it takes to increase distance grows exponentially.

50% effort 80 yards
60% effort 95 yards +15
70% effort 108 yards +13
80% effort 118 yards +10
90% effort 125 yards +7

This loss of gain probably has a lot to do with the limitations of your body, gravity pulling the ball back to earth. increased wind resistence on the club and the ball in flight. As the ball moves faster and climbs higher all of the previously stated factors increase.

This was your original statement.

Using the physics formula for work, if you want to increase your club head speed from 90 to 100 mph, an 11% increase, you have to swing roughly 23% harder.

If you replace "club head speed and mph" with ball flight distance. I can agree totally on this.

[Ty Webb]

I drilled holes through my driver. This allows air to pass freely through and limits the wind resistance. The club is more aerodynamic.

[Andru]

Originally posted by Ty Webb
I drilled holes through my driver. This allows air to pass freely through and limits the wind resistance. The club is more aerodynamic.

LMAO

[LongHitta]

[faldo]

"Laughing my ass off" for any other non-geeks..........