Help me understand....

[Txxxxxxx]

If you don't want to negotiate a price, just state your ask price and say "firm", that way you won't get any unreasonable offers.

For what it's worth, I don't think there is such thing as an "unreasonable offer". It's just an offer. It isn't necessarily about what the fair value of a club may be. For example, the "fair value" of a Scotty is more than i am willing to pay. So if I ever get one, it will likely be at a good discount. If someone is willing to let it go at a low price, I won't feel bad about buying it.

Like I said before, if you have the budget for a Cavalier, don't expect to get a Corvette.

As for no offer being unreasonable....I respectfully disagree with that statement.

Using your Scotty example...If I had a brand new Scotty that sells for $379 in stores and for some reason I had two of them and wanted to move one, without trying to make money and I price it for $350. Are you saying if someone offered me $200 that it would be "reasonable" ? I'm going to go with no on this one. No offense, but that logic doesn't make any sense.

[Kilroy]

What do you mean I haven't offered a solution? The solution is the buyer doing a little research on the product they are interested in.

What i mean is that you can't realistically maintain a policy that all buyers do the homework. You can suggest they do, but certainly can't expect they will, so you have to live with it.

Aside from that not everyone is as aware as some of the resources available. I for one find the PGA Value site to have ridiculously low pricing, but hey, that must be the going rate, because they say so. Is that right?

[Chambokl]

Hey Edmonton,

This is what makes this site so nice. I always check what is for sale even though I am set for my equipment needs.

Here is 2 examples:

1) Somebody was asking $160 for a putter. I offered him $110 + shipping and he refuse... no big deal. 4 days after he posted it at $120 and sold it for $100 shipping included. My lowball offered was actually quite good... I guess.

2) Sombody was asking $175 for a jacket. Then $150, then $125, then $100... that is when I bought it...

Like Dan said it is always the choice of the seller to accept or refuse an offer. You can look on EBay, some stuff will sell one day for $185 and the next day for $130...

If you go through all the trouble to post and take pics but it is too much work to answer an offer with "No sorry my price is not negotiable" then maybe you shouldn't post a for sale at all. When you post a "For Sale" don't you try to get the most possible. I am sure if you check EBay for an idea of the price you will pay attention at the highest price not the lower one that the same item sold for... Will that be called "HighBall" ...lol.

Also, sometime you see something as a buyer and on the spur of the moment will decide, I don't need this but if I get it for $XX it would be OK. So you offer $XX....

If I want something I usually offer something fair. If I "could" use or "maybe" use I will offer lower and see what happen.

The buyer at the end will decide what he wants to pay and the seller will decide what he can accept.

Good luck on the link,

Jean-Guy

[Kilroy]

If I had a brand new Scotty that sells for $379 in stores and for some reason I had two of them and wanted to move one, without trying to make money and I price it for $350

If you have it, it is used. It is no longer worth $350 IMHO unless it is a collectible when it may be worth more. Have a look at the car market and see what your $30,000 car is worth once you drive it off the lot.

[Txxxxxxx]

What i mean is that you can't realistically maintain a policy that all buyers do the homework. You can suggest they do, but certainly can't expect they will, so you have to live with it.

Aside from that not everyone is as aware as some of the resources available. I for one find the PGA Value site to have ridiculously low pricing, but hey, that must be the going rate, because they say so. Is that right?

The PGA site lists things in American Dollars. If you convert that price to Canadian Dollars it's pretty close to what things are going for or the going rate because it uses the supply and demand calculation as we talking about before.

Let's take my 905T for example. It lists it on there for $143 US as of today. Right now, they are selling for around $150 Canadian on eBay and I've seen two go on GolfWRX in the past week for $140 US. In my opinion, the PGA site is not "ridiculously low". It seems to be pretty accurate to tell you the truth.

Honestly though....How do you think people come up with a price for what they are selling? Most of the time, people will look on eBay and see what the going rate for something is. Are you telling me people buying clubs are unaware of eBay as a resource or decent benchmark for what people want to pay for something?

[Kilroy]

Are you telling me people buying clubs are unaware of eBay as a resource or decent benchmark for what people want to pay for something

No. I am saying that an offer is an offer. If you don't want low ball offers, post "firm" or the like an your ad.

[Txxxxxxx]

If you have it, it is used. It is no longer worth $350 IMHO unless it is a collectible when it may be worth more. Have a look at the car market and see what your $30,000 car is worth once you drive it off the lot.

I agree with you, but a Scotty does not go for $150 less in the wrapper from the store. In my opinion, it would be a lowball offer if someone asked for that club for $200......The reason one could price it for $350 is because it leaves room to negotiate. I'm not saying negotiating is a bad thing, but one should expect people to offer somewhere in the ballpark of what the club goes for used, eventhough I'm using an example of new club expecting to lose money on a sale.

[Txxxxxxx]

No. I am saying that an offer is an offer. If you don't want low ball offers, post "firm" or the like an your ad.

So there's no difference in your mind from a lowball offer and a reasonable offer? And stating "accepting reasonable offers" in your ad is not enough to expect people to be reasonable? Am I missing something here?

[dbleber]

The PGA value guide is an avergae based on sale prices from ebay. Take your 905T for example. It may list at 140 USD but your not going to get it. When they sold for 300 and now 100 you get the average of everything in between. Its a reference but not the law. Someting like a 905T will go for 100 -120 max. Just the way it is with used clubs now. Manufacturers put out a new model every other month so the rest go down in value. Sucks for you if you bought them new but that's the price you pay.

[dbleber]

You can't get rid of low ball offers. Everyone has a right to offer what every they want and you have a right to say no. Sometimes on sites like this people offer a price because they don't really care if they get it, but if the seller is willing to let it go for that much then they'll take it. Just say no if you don't like it. I've been on both sides and I hate it when someone offers me crap for my stuff but at the sametime I want the best deal possible whne I'm buying. It's the way it is, don't like go with ebay and but a reserved price.

[Txxxxxxx]

Hey Edmonton,

This is what makes this site so nice. I always check what is for sale even though I am set for my equipment needs.

Here is 2 examples:

1) Somebody was asking $160 for a putter. I offered him $110 + shipping and he refuse... no big deal. 4 days after he posted it at $120 and sold it for $100 shipping included. My lowball offered was actually quite good... I guess.

2) Sombody was asking $175 for a jacket. Then $150, then $125, then $100... that is when I bought it...

Like Dan said it is always the choice of the seller to accept or refuse an offer. You can look on EBay, some stuff will sell one day for $185 and the next day for $130...

If you go through all the trouble to post and take pics but it is too much work to answer an offer with "No sorry my price is not negotiable" then maybe you shouldn't post a for sale at all. When you post a "For Sale" don't you try to get the most possible. I am sure if you check EBay for an idea of the price you will pay attention at the highest price not the lower one that the same item sold for... Will that be called "HighBall" ...lol.

Also, sometime you see something as a buyer and on the spur of the moment will decide, I don't need this but if I get it for $XX it would be OK. So you offer $XX....

If I want something I usually offer something fair. If I "could" use or "maybe" use I will offer lower and see what happen.

The buyer at the end will decide what he wants to pay and the seller will decide what he can accept.

Good luck on the link,

Jean-Guy

Your two examples are good ones, yet seem to be people just looking to sell their stuff to get it out of the house or probably didn't have "reasonable offers" listed in their sale. Especially if the prices dropped in such a short duration, it's obvious the seller just wanted to get rid of, or needed money for their items.

If someone just needs money or wants to clean out their closet, they usually post that in their thread. Most of the time you'll see a "Cleaning out my closet sale" for the title and then you know the guy just wants to get rid of whatever he has, so he's happy getting whatever he can to make space.

[Txxxxxxx]

The PGA value guide is an avergae based on sale prices from ebay. Take your 905T for example. It may list at 140 USD but your not going to get it. When they sold for 300 and now 100 you get the average of everything in between. Its a reference but not the law. Someting like a 905T will go for 100 -120 max. Just the way it is with used clubs now. Manufacturers put out a new model every other month so the rest go down in value. Sucks for you if you bought them new but that's the price you pay.

I just gave you an example of how the 905T's are selling on eBay. What do you mean $120 max? There's a regular flex on there right now for $133 Canadian with 5 bids ending in 5 minutes? Where are you getting $120 max from?

Like it or not, the PGA guide is a good reference for sellers and buyers alike. I don't think it can be a matter of opinion when there's concrete evidence from sales all over the place showing so.

[B Nation]

Like I said before, if you have the budget for a Cavalier, don't expect to get a Corvette.

As for no offer being unreasonable....I respectfully disagree with that statement.

Using your Scotty example...If I had a brand new Scotty that sells for $379 in stores and for some reason I had two of them and wanted to move one, without trying to make money and I price it for $350. Are you saying if someone offered me $200 that it would be "reasonable" ? I'm going to go with no on this one. No offense, but that logic doesn't make any sense.

I guess my point was that an offer requires no commitment on your part. You are free to just say no. Checking your inbox takes 2 seconds, and replyin no would take another 2 seconds.

In this example, I would prob just say no and leave it at that. I certainly wouldn't get upset or insulted by it.

[dbleber]

That's Ebay. If you want Ebay prices then sell your clubs on Ebay, you keep fixating over Ebay but you are not seeing the big picture, this Ottawagolf not Ebay. I'm telling you that you won't sell it for more then $120 on here and if someone offered you that then it is not a low ball offer. I just bought one for a friend off this site and just watched Sakuba try and sell his. Ebay is a bigger market, this is mainly Ottawa and most of us on here like to buy local.

[Txxxxxxx]

That's Ebay. If you want Ebay prices then sell your clubs on Ebay, you keep fixating over Ebay but you are not seeing the big picture, this Ottawagolf not Ebay. I'm telling you that you won't sell it for more then $120 on here and if someone offered you that then it is not a low ball offer. I just bought one for a friend off this site and just watched Sakuba try and sell his. Ebay is a bigger market, this is mainly Ottawa and most of us on here like to buy local.

So we established that the PGA value guide is a benchmark based on eBay, you said that yourself. So if one cannot get more then $120, are you saying the people on this site are too cheap to pay what a club is worth? I'm not sure why Ottawa Golf would be considered a site that people are not willing to pay what a club is actually valued at...Why would someone from TGN or GolfWRX be any different? Are those sites full of suckers? I just sold my 905R to a guy off another golf site for $200 CDN plus the shipping....Do I think he's a sucker? Absolutely not! I think he understands the value of the club and is willing to pay that. I think he probably used other sites or perhaps eBay to gauge what the club is worth or going for...

If in your opinion eBay is not a good reference, and the PGA value guide uses it for their pricing, are they out to lunch? I mean Dan himself, the owner of this board just told us he thinks the prices on the PGA site are way too low. Does that mean if Dan tried to sell something on here for what it's worth in his eyes, would he never be able to sell it? Sound like perhaps in your opinion he wouldn't if people would never get what the value guide says from anyone on this site.

I've bought and sold more than one item on this site because I have never had an issue paying or selling anything once I got through the lowball offers. I've always sold for fair market value and purchased on the same accord.

So by selling and buying locally, you pay less and sell less then what a club might be going for somewhere else?

I'm not sure I follow where you're going. It sounds like a bit of contradiction to me.

[Bullet]

I'm glad you're passionate about golf, but in all honesty, it's not the equipment that makes the player. To give you a little bit of an example. I play with a guy who doesn't have a lot of money. He tries to get out as much as possible and most of the time we cover his round because he's a buddy and we know he loves to golf. On top of being a great guy, he's also a GREAT golfer. He probably plays to a 2 handicap and you know what he uses for clubs? He has a $200 set of Hogans that he bought brand new this year. He hits the ball just as well as we do and our putters cost as much as his entire set.

Again your comparing oranges with pears. Your buddy has been playing golf for how many years? When he started playing golf where was the level of technologie in equipment on the market???

I'm a novice. Hoping to average in the mid to low 90's by the end of the season. Your telling me that equipment has little to do with it??? So I guess game improvment clubs are just a marketing angle??? Well then I should never have purchased MX-17's then cause it's all money in the fire.

Your friend might have a rare amount of talent, or he learnt how to play the game many years ago and althought he might improve his game with better clubs he can't afford too. Why do the pro's and yourself use the best available resources then? I aggree that it takes skill and technique to help improve our game, yet I can say that it might be partly phsychological but i can assure you my game has improved with the investment I have made on equipment. That being said, lessons would probably have even better results.

[Kilroy]

I've bought and sold more than one item on this site because I have never had an issue paying or selling anything once I got through the lowball offers. I've always sold for fair market value and purchased on the same accord.

That being the case, I don't see a problem here at all.

[dbleber]

You’re putting words in my mouth, which I really hate. I'm not saying that things don't go for lower then normal prices when compared to EBay on here. Look at poor old Geoff, sometimes that guy has to give his stuff away to get a sale. Is that fair, maybe not but it is an open market and like yourself if you want a larger population to look at your item and have the odds in you favour that you will get a higher price then stick with EBay and some of the other sites that you have mentioned. Buying and selling on here is convenient because it is local and you don't have to pay for shipping. In your case, if someone pays 150 for you 905T and then another 20 for shipping, it gets to expensive when they could buy one local for around the 120 mark and go pick it up. I'm not telling you that you can't get more money from different places, but you won't get the highest dollar here. Take it or leave it, you have the option to sell your clubs where ever you want.

[Chieflongtee]

Worst case scenario is when you get low balled once you have reached an agreement If i get a low ball offer I just say no and move on. You can also buy and sell used clubs in local classifieds. There is a website here in ottawa where you can post for free.

[Txxxxxxx]

I'm glad you're passionate about golf, but in all honesty, it's not the equipment that makes the player. To give you a little bit of an example. I play with a guy who doesn't have a lot of money. He tries to get out as much as possible and most of the time we cover his round because he's a buddy and we know he loves to golf. On top of being a great guy, he's also a GREAT golfer. He probably plays to a 2 handicap and you know what he uses for clubs? He has a $200 set of Hogans that he bought brand new this year. He hits the ball just as well as we do and our putters cost as much as his entire set.

Again your comparing oranges with pears. Your buddy has been playing golf for how many years? When he started playing golf where was the level of technologie in equipment on the market???

I'm a novice. Hoping to average in the mid to low 90's by the end of the season. Your telling me that equipment has little to do with it??? So I guess game improvment clubs are just a marketing angle??? Well then I should never have purchased MX-17's then cause it's all money in the fire.

Your friend might have a rare amount of talent, or he learnt how to play the game many years ago and althought he might improve his game with better clubs he can't afford too. Why do the pro's and yourself use the best available resources then? I aggree that it takes skill and technique to help improve our game, yet I can say that it might be partly phsychological but i can assure you my game has improved with the investment I have made on equipment. That being said, lessons would probably have even better results.

My buddy has never had a big name brand club in his entire life. From the time he was a novice like yourself to now, he's always played with cheap clubs. He took some lessons and hit balls in a field as much as he could, and now he's pretty good. That's how he got better, not by using the best clubs out there.

Are game improvement clubs a marketing angle? Yes and no. Do they improve your game? Yes and no. You may score a little better, but all they are doing is disguising swing flaws. They are not going to make you a better golfer.

Why do the pros use the best available resources? For a number of reasons, one being because they are paid to, another being that they are free and have them tweaked to fit their swing as much as they want.

Why do I buy high end clubs? Because I can. Do I think they make me a better player? Nope. I also see a CPGA Pro every few weeks to work on my swing. You do realise the pros do this daily don't you?

You know that when Ernie Els was putting very well that he was using a putter he bought at a garage sale.

Phil Mickelson has the newest technology at his fingertips, yet he still sprays drives all over the place.

So take it with a grain of salt.

Money is better spent on lessons instead of expensive equipment.

[Txxxxxxx]

That being the case, I don't see a problem here at all.

HAHA! What did I say at the beginning? I said I am not speaking for myself. I am speaking in general. I used a club I had for sale as an example.

I don't see why you don't agree we could do without the lowball offers and in the end, with the resources available, they should never be an issue.

It's an ignorance issue like someone who's moving during your putting routine. Can we do without that on the course, well sure we can. Do we have to deal with it on the course, absolutely not. It's up to golfers to know the proper etiquitte before playing as it should be up to the buyer to know the going rate or have enough judgement before offering ridiculous prices.

[Kilroy]

I don't see why you don't agree we could do without the lowball offers .

It's not that I don't agree some offers are too low. People will offer less than you are willing to accept. Just say no thanks and it's no big deal. It doesn't/shouldn't really matter. It's certainly not something to get in a twist or feel insuted over.

and in the end, with the resources available, they should never be an issue

Not everyone uses the "available resources", and not everyone puts a lot of stock in what they say about the value of a club.
I wasn't aware that the PGA Value site had the power to fix prices for used clubs. Are you saying that people should never ask for more or offer less than they list there?

Just like when they're new, they are worth what someone will pay. Do you really think Honmas are worth what they charge?

[Txxxxxxx]

You’re putting words in my mouth, which I really hate. I'm not saying that things don't go for lower then normal prices when compared to EBay on here. Look at poor old Geoff, sometimes that guy has to give his stuff away to get a sale. Is that fair, maybe not but it is an open market and like yourself if you want a larger population to look at your item and have the odds in you favour that you will get a higher price then stick with EBay and some of the other sites that you have mentioned. Buying and selling on here is convenient because it is local and you don't have to pay for shipping. In your case, if someone pays 150 for you 905T and then another 20 for shipping, it gets to expensive when they could buy one local for around the 120 mark and go pick it up. I'm not telling you that you can't get more money from different places, but you won't get the highest dollar here. Take it or leave it, you have the option to sell your clubs where ever you want.

Shipping has nothing to do with the price of the club. I'm not sure why you are focused on my situation living where I live in this conversation. I'm not talking about my items. I used the 905T to show Dan how the PGA value guide is decently accurate with its pricing. For the record, those prices on eBay or on the PGA site do not include shipping, so I'm not sure why that's being brought up. The people are still paying what they are worth, then add shipping, then add brokerage fees and duties.

Geoff is a perfect example, and you with the 905T for $120 is another one, not so much the $120 for the 905T but still. Does shipping add to the cost? Yes it does but if I lived in Ottawa, and for the other members who are local, why should they/we not get fair market value for what they are buying?

And I apologise for offending you, but I was not putting words in your mouth. I was simply stating you were making some contradicting statements that had me confused as to what you were eluding to. Don't take it personally.

[Txxxxxxx]

It's not that I don't agree some offers are too low. People will offer less than you are willing to accept. Just say no thanks and it's no big deal. It doesn't/shouldn't really matter. It's certainly not something to get in a twist or feel insuted over.Not everyone uses the "available resources", and not everyone puts a lot of stock in what they say about the value of a club.
I wasn't aware that the PGA Value site had the power to fix prices for used clubs. Are you saying that people should never ask for more or offer less than they list there?

Just like when they're new, they are worth what someone will pay. Do you really think Honmas are worth what they charge?

I feel like we are going in circles over this PGA thing. I'm not sure you get the point. I was merely stating that it's a very good resource for people to use. If it uses eBay and takes an average of what people are paying for the club, then it's a going rate, maybe not exactly what the club is worth, but what it is going for based on supply and demand. It's not a fixed rate, but if you get offered something well below what people are paying for that club, then yes, it is a lowball offer.

[Kilroy]

I feel like we are going in circles over this PGA thing

IMHO people here are free to ask and offer whatever they like without feeling like they are doing anything wrong.

[Txxxxxxx]

IMHO people here are free to ask and offer whatever they like without feeling like they are doing anything wrong.

People are free to ask whatever they want within reason. That's what this is all about. Be reasonable, show some judgement and respect, and make an offer with those things in mind. I never said that Bob Smith has to offer John Roberts exactly what is shown in the value guide or exactly what the going rate for a piece of equipment is. Those tools are just there for REFERENCE. It's not a big deal to use them and know they are an example of what equipment is going for, then make a reasonable offer based on that and what the seller is asking.

[Golfbum]

JUST SAY NO TO LOWBALLERS

You can not expect everyone to use the available resources that the world wide web offers to find club values.
Heck some people can not use GOOGLE to search for something, they have to start a thread and have someone answer their question! You surely do not expect them to know what a fair price for a 905 is. BTW, I thought your 905's were very reasonable, so really there was no need to accept lowball offers.
What kills me is eBayers who are charging $50 US to ship within Canada and USA vis USPS. Give me a break

Psssst Wanna good deal on a Scotty

[Indio]

Psssst Wanna good deal on a Scotty

Yes, but only if it is already low and I can offer real low (A Red X or Red X 2 please)

[Txxxxxxx]

JUST SAY NO TO LOWBALLERS

You can not expect everyone to use the available resources that the world wide web offers to find club values.
Heck some people can not use GOOGLE to search for something, they have to start a thread and have someone answer their question! You surely do not expect them to know what a fair price for a 905 is. BTW, I thought your 905's were very reasonable, so really there was no need to accept lowball offers.
What kills me is eBayers who are charging $50 US to ship within Canada and USA vis USPS. Give me a break

Psssst Wanna good deal on a Scotty

Which one? I'm in the market for a new putter to tell you the truth. I putt like a crossed-eyed son of a gun in Scottsdale.

I totally agree too on the shipping thing. It kills me that from one person to the next, the shipping charges change for the same service e.g USPS Express. I do understand though on some occasions they charge the handling on top of that which I have no issue with as long as it's in the same ballpark as what shipping costs. I don't mind giving the guy an extra $10 for his gas to and from the post office, but when the price is $40 more, that's why you start to scratch you head.

[Golfbum]

Which one? I'm in the market for a new putter to tell you the truth. I putt like a crossed-eyed son of a gun in Scottsdale.

I totally agree too on the shipping thing. It kills me that from one person to the next, the shipping charges change for the same service e.g USPS Express. I do understand though on some occasions they charge the handling on top of that which I have no issue with as long as it's in the same ballpark as what shipping costs. I don't mind giving the guy an extra $10 for his gas to and from the post office, but when the price is $40 more, that's why you start to scratch you head.

The bottom line on this issue is this. You list your item at the price you would like to sell it for. You just know people are going to offer less. Now the sad thing is this. If you list it for more than you want then no one bothers to contact you regarding the item. So you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

List it, price it accordingly. If someone makes a reasonable offer then sell it. If not try again in a week or so.

Hey I know a guy who was holding a yard sale. One of his co-workers stopped by. The seller had some paperbacks for 25 cents each. His co-worker offered him 10 cents each. Now that is LOWBALLING

I know one thing, if I had been in the market for one of those drivers you listed I would have been all over those like a mouse on a piece of cheese. Great prices IMO.

As for the Scotty, well if I buy it at the great price I can get it for I might just decide to put it in play. I am debating on buying it as a little "Retirement Gift" to myself
But if I do not like it you will be first to know!