Myrtle Beach Golf Holiday sinks popular Internet golf forum

[Kilroy]

Myrtle Beach Golf Holiday sinks popular Internet golf forum

From-
MyrtlebeachGolf.com News Desk http://www.MyrtlebeachGolf.com

Citing a new joint venture with marketing giant Myrtle Beach Golf Holiday, On the Green Magazine's Myrtle Beach Golf reader forum is coming to an end. While officials won't say what led to the shutdown, sources indicate a series of negative posts about the Caledonia Golf and Fish Club and a member hotel property set the wheels in motion.
See story at http://www.MyrtlebeachGolf.com

Senior Editor Shane Sharp offer his take....
"MBGH resorts to 'Mafioso' techniques to stifle speech"
By Shane Sharp
http://www.myrtlebeachgolf.com/depar...iday-forum.htm

[Curious George]

Maybe we could do a swap with their forum: we can complain about myrtle beach, they can complain about ottawa courses.

[Kilroy]

OK kids, we have some serious thinking to do.
There are several things to consider here.

1) The OttawaGolf forum is one of this site's best features, building a community of golfers, and giving us all a voice. We do not want to lose it.
2) Some constructive criticism is a good thing; course owners do look in and do hear what we have to say.
3) Courses who are featured here do not want to be trashed in a public forum.
4) OttawaGolf is a business and upsetting clients is not good business.
5) Let's learn from the Myrtle Beach example, and not let this happen here. This is the number 2 golf course per capita region in North America, second only to Myrtle Beach. This forum is probably just about as poular as theirs was. I see a lot of parallels.

We do have rules in place to restrict the worst of the worst rants, but due to complaints I have recieved this past month, and in light of this development at MyrtleBeachGolf.com I am considering tightening the rules.

Pros and Cons:
Pro:
Ensuring the longevity of this forum
Not having to read other people's rants, which are sometimes valid, but often exaggerated.

Con:
Censorship is bad, people do not appreciate being told not to post complaints.
Allowing only positive information about courses is a biased representation.

Many posts have been let stand (perhaps too many) due to my not wanting to deal with accusations of censorship. Obviously this needs to be reviewed. I feel that somewhere between what is allowed now, and losing this forum a balance can be found.

So... For the time being, while this topic is open for discussion, I am leaving things as they are, and asking your co-operation in not ranting here. The rule currently states :
"This is not to say that a negative comment cannot be made, but rather that if such a comment is made it must be done accurately (don't exaggerate) politely, and with respect. State your issues, but do not vent here."

In this thread there is to be no mention of individual courses, or specific examples of cases of threads that may have gone too far. I do not want this to be about specific cases. Let's discuss the issue in general terms.

[Kilroy]

Originally posted by Curious George
Maybe we could do a swap with their forum: we can complain about myrtle beach, they can complain about ottawa courses.

Their forum no longer exists.

[Curious George]

Originally posted by Dan Kilbank
Their forum no longer exists.

Myrtle Beach golf clubs (and Ottawa ones too) should have realized how much business was generated from the forum site.

I can say for a fact I've checked out dozens of additional golf courses (listed on this site) and 2 additional driving ranges (advertised on this site)...

I've also inquired about various other services/businesses.

It's a loss-loss scenario, if you ask me.

[Kilroy]

The MyrtleBeachGolf.com site is still there, so the promotional info is still there. Just the forum is gone. I think the forum is important.

[Chieflongtee]

This may be litlle off topic but I think this forum is great and was wondering if you ever considered going west with this forum(Québec) (french version). There is a great window of opportunity
there. Anyway keep up the good work Monsieur Kilbank.

[el tigre]

"Golf Holiday ordering OTG to shut the forum down is hostile, especially considering that we are a pro Myrtle Beach Forum," Stipo said. "It has helped Myrtle Beach overall far more than any negative comments."

"They didn't want negative comments about their member hotels and member courses and I can understand that," says Noblin. "But the majority of these posts were truthful. People plan these trips (to Myrtle Beach) up to a year ahead of time and they need as much information as they can get, good or bad."

I think these quotes from the article hit the nail on the head. Golf Holiday is in the tourism business, which is well known to be intolerant of any sort of negative comments about destinations regardless of their accuracy. They are looking out for the interests of their members (hotels and golf courses) - not the interests of golfers.

I work in the magazine business, where we face this problem every day. Do you serve the interests of advertisers (who pay most of the bills) or readers (without which you would not have a magazine)? In the long run, you are better off serving readers because you not only stimulate a lively discussion of the issues but you get a loyal, committed readership (which is what advertisers really want).

I think your current rule is perfect. It stresses accuracy, politeness and respect. Enforcement should be aimed at making sure these principles are followed.

I do think you could give more prominance to the forum rules. Perhaps when you click on "Forum/Classified", an acceptance screen should pop up before you get access. I'm sure most people will just click through these most of the time without necessarily reading them, but it is a gentle reminder every time you use the forum that there ARE rules that must be followed.

[Curious George]

Even Toronto needs a forum of this quality.

I don't get it, are there not statistics on how much money you have generated for Ottawa businesses with this forum? Did Myrtle forum not generate a lot of revenue? Do businesses not realize the benefit of free advertising?

Even the rants: when I read a complaint, I add a grain of salt. It doesn't stop me from checking out the course, it's just a venting process.

The reverse is NOT true: when someone recommends something, I often check it out. And the forum is my #1 reason for visiting.

Foolish reaction in Myrtle Beach, it will cost them a lot.

[Colby]

A couple of the guys from the Myrtle Beach forum have started a new one over at Delphi...

http://forums.delphiforums.com/myrtlegolftalk/start

[Kilroy]

I think your current rule is perfect. It stresses accuracy, politeness and respect. Enforcement should be aimed at making sure these principles are followed.

So do I. It would really help if people followed it to the letter and save me the problem of deciding to let it stay or not.

I do not want the rules to be as "in your face" as to have it come up in the way constantly. That would be annoying, and people would just ignore it and click through. Thanks for the thought though. Nice to see people trying to be helpfull. Always open to ideas.

[Kilroy]

A couple of the guys from the Myrtle Beach forum have started a new one over at Delphi...

Yes, they will always find a way to continue. This will be OK for those already using it, but visitors to the main Myrtle site will not be offered a link to it. You'd have to find it yourself.
I say, let's keep this one here

[Colby]

Originally posted by Dan Kilbank
Yes, they will always find a way to continue. I say, let's keep this one here

I agree. Plus the colours are nicer here

[The Shtick]

We have over 900 members here and that's a good thing. People are members at various clubs and I'm sure that they don't like it when their course is being bashed.

We use this forum to seek advice, check up on course conditions, learn about new products, ask for rulings, and talk about what's going on in the world of golf.

Dan has put up with a lot of from us since the beginning but lately, he has had to re-inforce the rules more and more.

This is the best website for information on golf in the area and let's keep it that way. We all have our opinions about certain topics and we like to express our thoughts to others on-line.

What I'm asking is that your rants and raves be expressed in a smart manner and if you plan on doing any bashing.... well, don't be too specific (ie. holes you don't like, bad service, etc.) on where this place is.

We are serving the public here and we have to be smart about it. So for the people who don't have anything good to say, please don't say anything at all. Let's give Dan a break and keep this great forum.

Cheers to Dan, Steve, and Gary for helping us out 24/7......

[ShaneOttawa]

[i]

What I'm asking is that your rants and raves be expressed in a smart manner and if you plan on doing any bashing.... well, don't be too specific (ie. holes you don't like, bad service, etc.) on where this place is.[/B]

While I appreciate the intent here (ie - advice to prevent this forum from being shut down), I think this goes more than a bit too far.

I like Dan's official guideline, which essentially says don't post unsupported unconstructive comment like "this course sucks".

Dan's guidelines to my interpretation, would allow something like "I'm concerned about the layout at Goat Hills CC - setting the 14th tee in the middle of the 13th green seems pretty dangerous".

And unless we're allowed to continue posting in such a manner, I suggest this forum wouldn't be nearly as helpful as it is today.

I guess the key is that we keep our comments from veering into "this course sucks" territory. Then Dan won't have to go so hard on policing and, hopefully, courses that are subjected to constructive criticism take it as such and don't pressure Dan to shut it down.

[LobWedge]

I totally agree with the no censorship issue. History has taught us countless times that censorship leads to bad things. However, so do unfounded malicious comments that come from individuals who are either having a bad day, have a particular personal grudge to settle, or just plain blow a particular sitiuation way out of proportion (the mountain/molehill syndrome).

How about setting up a general feedback form with a range of "radio button" selections covering the range from good to bad, best to worst, etc., possibly with a small field for additional comments. It gives the sender the opportunity to provide constructive feedback, and the receiver the opportunity to breakdown the information easily to identify areas of success and areas for potential improvement.

[Kilroy]

Dan's guidelines to my interpretation, would allow something like "I'm concerned about the layout at Goat Hills CC - setting the 14th tee in the middle of the 13th green seems pretty dangerous".

Exactly correct. If everyone posts that way I'll have no need to do anything.
Constructive critisizm and ranting are two different things. I think The Shtick and you are really in agreement here.

BTW: Thank you Shtick for your comments. Well spoken

[The Shtick]

No problem Dan-

Good house keeping is essential.

[spart]

Just wanted to add my support for Dan's rules. I enjoy the forum (although not the rants) and would not want to see it disappear. I hope we would continue to see reports on courses, which can easily be done without trashing anyone -- eg "Just played X and the greens have just been punched - on the orther hand their fairways were excellent and they had "drinking water on the course!!

[fat9iron]

We've all played poor courses, slow rounds, etc............etc......

A great round of golf only comes when we are able to let go of the negative thoughts that creep into our minds.

Try it in LIFE too.........

[Curious George]

Oh, shut up...



Just joking.