Clublink

[5Horizon]

I'm thinking of joining Clublink, any thoughts on this?

[jmr73]

I'm thinking of joining Clublink, any thoughts on this?

Search the forums and you will find lots of information on Clublink. There are many members here that should be able to answer any questions you may have.

Clublink is not for everybody. But if you like to play lots of golf, quality courses, good pace of play, good service... then check it out. Right now, joining Hautes Plaines is a good deal.

[5Horizon]

thanks man.

[Colby]

5Horizon,

This is what I usually tell people who are thinking of joining Clublink.

You need to realize that this is not an equity membership. It is run by a public company and they are out to make money. Given that, I have found that my membership has provided very good value.

The next thing to look at is what kind of golfer are you. Do you enjoy playing a variety of courses, or do you like to play at a single course. Do you like to travel? Is the travel regional or more North American-based.

hat I have found is that my membership in Clublibnk has given me access to arguably some of the best courses in Eastern Canada, including several in the top 100 in Canada, and through the affiliated Clubcorp membership, access to some great courses in the US including Firestone, Pinehurst, Barton Creek and courses in Las Vegas, California (esp Palm Desert), Texas and Florida. The CL courses are usually in tremendous shape, and the customer service is almost always wonderful. Now with Eagle Creek, CL has two courses within a couple of hours in the Top 100, and I'm sure Fountainebleau will be in that list when it next comes out.

If you prefer to play a single course, don't travel and the cost is intimidating, then a membership at different club may be the answer. There are lots of good semi-private clubs in the Ottawa area. If it's the non-equity membership, then getting admitted to one of the excellent local private clubs may be the answer.

If you have any questions, please let me know and I will do my best to answer them. Don't ask me about possible purchases as I won't discuss that, but be aware that CL is active in the market and is looking for the right deal, like EC.

[PEI Golfing]

5Horizon,

This is what I usually tell people who are thinking of joining Clublink.

You need to realize that this is not an equity membership. It is run by a public company and they are out to make money. Given that, I have found that my membership has provided very good value.

The next thing to look at is what kind of golfer are you. Do you enjoy playing a variety of courses, or do you like to play at a single course. Do you like to travel? Is the travel regional or more North American-based.

hat I have found is that my membership in Clublibnk has given me access to arguably some of the best courses in Eastern Canada, including several in the top 100 in Canada, and through the affiliated Clubcorp membership, access to some great courses in the US including Firestone, Pinehurst, Barton Creek and courses in Las Vegas, California (esp Palm Desert), Texas and Florida. The CL courses are usually in tremendous shape, and the customer service is almost always wonderful. Now with Eagle Creek, CL has two courses within a couple of hours in the Top 100, and I'm sure Fountainebleau will be in that list when it next comes out.

If you prefer to play a single course, don't travel and the cost is intimidating, then a membership at different club may be the answer. There are lots of good semi-private clubs in the Ottawa area. If it's the non-equity membership, then getting admitted to one of the excellent local private clubs may be the answer.

If you have any questions, please let me know and I will do my best to answer them. Don't ask me about possible purchases as I won't discuss that, but be aware that CL is active in the market and is looking for the right deal, like EC.

Colby, very well said pointing out the benefits of CL vs private/semi-private.

[Indio]

Colby,

GREAT unbiased response I am truely impressed

[psniddy]

Very well said Colby. Clublink is like Don Cherry for alot of people.

[Hacker]

Very well said Colby. Clublink is like Don Cherry for alot of people.

Clublink wears crazy suits, is obnoxious and is blindly in love with everything to do with the Toronto Maple Leafs???

[psniddy]

Exactly... Thanks for proving half my point.

[PEI Golfing]

Clublink wears crazy suits, is obnoxious and is blindly in love with everything to do with the Toronto Maple Leafs???

YES !!!!!!

[PEI Golfing]

Very well said Colby. Clublink is like Don Cherry for alot of people.

ONE BIG DIFFERENCE: When I holiday in the Maritimes, Western Canada or B.C. I can still watch Don Cherry.............

[psniddy]

I am not going to get into a debate on who Clublink is a good option for.
If it's not for you fine but it works great for me.

[mar_mem]

I would just like to clarify a point on equity. Only Camelot Golf & Country Club has equity shares. All others are initiation based. And one of the benefits of the equity share is that is transferable to a family member and gives you a voting saying in club direction, etc. vs a walk away initiation.

Another point to consider is how a club is designed for play. Most clubs are built with a purpose of putting rounds of golf through per day vs being designed to be played on a daily bases. Most top end private courses are professional designed in such a manner as to provide maximum change per day. I know that when I go away to play at other courses, I am still standing on the same tee box with the same club in my hand regardless of how many times I have played the course. A good private course is designed with multiply playing tee boxes and pin placements and on any given day they are changes to provide maximum variation and in some cases as much as 75 yards.

Just some food for thought when making a choice in joining a golf club.

[marcf]

...mar mem saying a private course is only good if it offers multiple tee decks and pin placements is awfully narrow minded. Anyone thinking that a course, any course, can only be played one way with the same club off of the same tee everyday, I would say that person lacks imagination in improving his or her own game by using different clubs to play the course differently. Instead of hitting driver off of every tee, why don't you play a round where you have to hit irons off of every tee. Play a round with only 4 clubs, I could go on and on. I'm member of a private course that I play every day during the season, and I never play it the same way consecutively. You don't need the architect to tell you what club to pull, use your imagination. Play a round with me at my course and I'll show you 3 different ways to play every hole from the same tee. IMO this has nothing to do with the fact if a private club is good or not. People make a good private club, not architects.

[Colby]

I would just like to clarify a point on equity. Only Camelot Golf & Country Club has equity shares. All others are initiation based. And one of the benefits of the equity share is that is transferable to a family member and gives you a voting saying in club direction, etc. vs a walk away initiation.

Another point to consider is how a club is designed for play. Most clubs are built with a purpose of putting rounds of golf through per day vs being designed to be played on a daily bases. Most top end private courses are professional designed in such a manner as to provide maximum change per day. I know that when I go away to play at other courses, I am still standing on the same tee box with the same club in my hand regardless of how many times I have played the course. A good private course is designed with multiply playing tee boxes and pin placements and on any given day they are changes to provide maximum variation and in some cases as much as 75 yards.

Just some food for thought when making a choice in joining a golf club.

Actually I believe Hunt Club, Rideauview, Royal Ottawa and Rivermead all offer equity memberships. And for those interested in history, EC was originally an equity membership course as was Boundary.

As for architects, Camelot was designed by Thoomas McBroom who has designed a number of CL courses.

[mar_mem]

If you check all their websites or call them, they are all Initiation based memberships that are non transferable with the exception of Camelot that now has both Equity & Initiation.

The point I was trying to make was one of dollar value and playability. It is definitely a matter of personally choice when it comes to playing golf on a regular bases and where you wish to call your home course.

When I made my decision, it was based on how easily can I get there and can I get a tee time when I want, the quality of the golf course, the comforts it provides me & my guests, does it give me the opportunity to play other courses should I travel. And foremost, where do I want to call home when I retire. For me the social aspect came into play as family was important as well and how they were going to be involved and included.

Definitely cost was involved but when you put it all down on paper for what you spend in time and travel, you may be surprised at a few things. Nichels & Dimes do add up. In the end, what I spent was no more and in some cases less than most people associated with private clubs in the ottawa valley. And in the end I can leave its value to someone I love as well.

Definitely a personal choice when it comes to joining a club for yourself and your family.

[mar_mem]

marcf, please forgive me, I did not mean to reply out of order. Only saw your comment after I sent the previous one.

You are absolutely correct and most people do not even think of doing that on their home courses let alone when they travel to different courses and play them for the second time. My point was only one of design. Courses are designed by architects based on their purposes or objective they wish to meet. And that is not to take away from their expertise in layout and creativity. After playing many courses, I am always impressed with their skills and creativity.

I do play rounds doing exactly what you have said, and I do it from three difference tee boxes to increase the variaty on a daily bases. It is great to be able to do that on a daily bases.

Your comment at being narrow minded will not be addressed.

Your offer of playing, anytime....and I would be happy to extend the same to you.

And you are are again absolutely right, good people make good clubs......

[Hacker]

Exactly... Thanks for proving half my point.

Do you really think that CL is one of those Love em or hate em things?

Personally as someone who is currently a public links golfer I hate losing good tracks to Club Links but I don't "hate" them for it......they are in business to make $$ and that was a business decision that they made.

In a couple of years when my kids are older and don't need as much direct supervision I can totally see myself joing CL - especially if they happen to acquire a course or two more around the city.

As for Cherry - how do you not love that guy

[Colby]

If you check all their websites or call them, they are all Initiation based memberships that are non transferable with the exception of Camelot that now has both Equity & Initiation.

The point I was trying to make was one of dollar value and playability. It is definitely a matter of personally choice when it comes to playing golf on a regular bases and where you wish to call your home course.

When I made my decision, it was based on how easily can I get there and can I get a tee time when I want, the quality of the golf course, the comforts it provides me & my guests, does it give me the opportunity to play other courses should I travel. And foremost, where do I want to call home when I retire. For me the social aspect came into play as family was important as well and how they were going to be involved and included.

Definitely cost was involved but when you put it all down on paper for what you spend in time and travel, you may be surprised at a few things. Nichels & Dimes do add up. In the end, what I spent was no more and in some cases less than most people associated with private clubs in the ottawa valley. And in the end I can leave its value to someone I love as well.

Definitely a personal choice when it comes to joining a club for yourself and your family.

I know there are members of the other clubs on the forum here, so maybe they will speak up as to the equity memberships of the various properties.

As for the availability of tee times, I have that in spades at Greyhawk with 36 holes. It's convenient for me to get to, and the members there are excellent as is the staff. I can leave my membership to my family when I am done with it, and they can continue using it long after I am gone.

As for doing things with the family, my Clublink membership gives me all that and more. Not only playing at my home course, my membership allows me to bring my family to the Muskokas and still enjoy the benefits of my membership. I can go to Tremblant and play a round of golf there and use my membership. I can even travel throughout the US, as I have done, playing golf with family in Orlando, Palm Desert and San Antonio just to mention a few.

Even though I play the majority of my rounds at my home course, my CL membership gives me the opportunity to play a variety of wonderful courses through Ontario, Quebec and all through the US. And eight of those courses are top 100 in Canada. So let's stack up Camelot vs. Greyhawk. Caution, this is off-topic...

Initiation Fee:

Camelot - 16,500 up to three years to pay interest free
Greyhawk - 12,500 up to 10 years to pay interest free

Yearly Dues
Camelot - 3,350
Greyhawk - 2,950

F&B
Camelot - 1,050 (1000 credit for this year)
Greyhawk - 550

Reciprocal play
Camelot - A concierge service providing access to private clubs across Canada. No details on the website
Greyhawk - Access to almost 30 courses in Ontario and Quebec, including 4 in the Ottawa area (does not count courses with more than 18 as two courses) Plus access to hundreds of courses in the US.

So as a 37 year old, my costs per year would be (exclusive of any GST):

Camelot - 5,500 initiation (16,500/3) + 3,350 annual dues + 1,050 F&B = 9,900/year (8,900 for 2007)
Greyhawk - 1,390 initiation (12,500/9) + 2,950 annual dues + 550 F&B = 4,890/year

So my yearly tab for playing golf at Greyhawk is half of Camelot and I get access to lots of great local courses, two in the top 100 in Canada (Eagle Creek and Le Maitre). Yes I will be paying that 1,390 for 6 years after I would have stopped paying the 5,500 at Camelot, but how much does the extra 400 in annual dues and 900 in F&B buy me every year. Oh yeah, the initiation dues I am still paying for a few years, and then after that, a golf trip every year...

Camelot is a good course. I personally wouldn't say it's a great course, when I played it I liked it, but it hasn't been a driving force to go back. It's well established, it's mature and it's been designed by a top Canadian golf architect. Greyhawk may not have the hills that Camelot has, but both courses have been designed by very good Canadian golf architects, Paul Takahashi and Darryl Huxham, and are just starting to mature. Camelot has been in existance since 1991, that's about a 10 year head start on Predator and close to 14 on Talon. When these two courses are 15-16 years old, they will be amazing.

But as you say, it all boils down to personal choice.

Have a great day

[pvs1313]

get to work Colby!!!!

LOL

Well said, and like you say, personal choice, but you spell it out well.

[Colby]

get to work Colby!!!!

LOL

Well said, and like you say, personal choice, but you spell it out well.

hahahaha

[mar_mem]

Colby, it was only my intention to provide an alternative view on memberships at the various courses throughout the Ottawa Valley and forgive me, but I also indicated the factors that I considered when I made my choice. And choice is definitely a personal one.

As for family, I meant actually playing with them on the course and them being members as well. I enjoy playing with family on a regular bases and it was part of my decision process. Also important to me was the junior program as well.

I certainly did not compare GreyHawk to Camelot.....

[Colby]

Colby, it was only my intention to provide an alternative view on memberships at the various courses throughout the Ottawa Valley and forgive me, but I also indicated the factors that I considered when I made my choice. And choice is definitely a personal one.

As for family, I meant actually playing with them on the course and them being members as well. I enjoy playing with family on a regular bases and it was part of my decision process. Also important to me was the junior program as well.

I certainly did not compare GreyHawk to Camelot.....

Absolutely, but let's not miss your last post in the Changes to Camelot thread where you stated that Camelot was not for sale (but that's another topic) Your last post in that thread,

Check out the New Initiation membership and what it includes? Then compare it to the neighbourhood of private clubs at that level including the new CL in the far west end. You may be pleasantly surprised

stated that you were comparing the level of benefits that you get at Camelot vs. other private clubs in the area including the new CL course in the West end. I simply went in more detail in respect to that statement. As for your other quotes about Camelot's equity membership being the only transferable membership, you are wrong there. I can fully transfer my non-equity membership in CL to any family member that I want to. Clublink also has a great membership offer for Intermediate members and for Junior members. The Junior program at Greyhawk is also getting better with the Men's champion last year recently graduating from Algonquin. Members bring their families out all the time to Greyhawk, I see Dad's with their kids in the cart all the time.

When I made my first post in this thread, as I try to do for all things related to CL, I tried to lay out all the things that I thought of when I bought my membership, and why it made sense for me to join CL. You have 7 posts on this board and all of them are selling the benefits of Camelot. I realize that you are a member there, and maybe a member of the staff, and your comments are more than welcome on this board. But when your first post on this board is a veiled attack on CL, some may say not so veiled:

Just curious to know how many people are aware of the changes at Camelot this year. New clubhouse, range & membership offers. www.camelotgolf.ca

FAQ #1 - Is Camelot for sale. Answer. No.
FAQ #2 - Is CL trying to buy? Answer. No.
FAQ #3 - Is Camelot a great golf course? Answer. Yes

Then you should be willing to debate the points a little bit. And I wouldn't go so far as saying CL is not trying to buy. Given the right price, I think CL would buy it in a heartbeat.

[mar_mem]

Colby, I would also like to just clarify a few items you mentioned in respect to Camelot.

Initiation Fee: You are correct.
Yearly Dues: You are correct.
F&B is $1,050.00 per year. Not broken into segments.
Reciprocal play: A concierge service providing access to private clubs across Canada and is not limited to pre-selected ones. Reciprocal arrangements are made on a case by case bases providing access other private & semi-private clubs.

[Colby]

Colby, I would also like to just clarify a few items you mentioned in respect to Camelot.

Initiation Fee: You are correct.
Yearly Dues: You are correct.
F&B is $1,050.00 per year. Not broken into segments.
Reciprocal play: A concierge service providing access to private clubs across Canada and is not limited to pre-selected ones. Reciprocal arrangements are made on a case by case bases providing access other private & semi-private clubs.

Mar_mem,

Thanks for the info on the F&B. I was going with a number that a friend had quoted a few years ago when he was playing there by taking someone's membership for the year. I will fix my post above.

[mar_mem]

Colby, my intentions where to promote my club as a MEMBER no differently than anyone else on here and to show how proud I am to be a fellow golfer in the Ottawa Golf community.

And I view the Royal, Hunt, Rivermead & CL and others as all being part of our great golfing community. Hell if we all played at the same course, we would never get a tee time.

[Colby]

mar_mem,

I never took your posts in any other light than a proud member of a private course, and of course you would brag about the benefits of being a member there. I feel the same way. I feel that I get great bang for my buck through CL, as do almost every CL member that I talk to. As a forum moderator, I really try and be neutral in most cases which is why I almost always try and prove my point with logic rather than emotion. Thus my posts are usually long winded and boring.

As for being a fellow golfer in the Ottawa Golf, we are happy that you found us and are willing to participate, and hopefully you will join in on all of the other topics that you are interested in. This is generally a great forum with a broad range of individuals that add to the fabric of the OttawaGolf community.

[mar_mem]

What can I say...you have touched my heart.....group hug.

I am not about to run away and look forward to participating in many other discussions.

And about the long winded stuff.....hahahaha

Lets get a beer and go hit a few

[pvs1313]

remember, Colby does contract work for the Government, so he has a lot of time on his hands to write here.

[Indio]

I would just like to clarify a point on equity. Only Camelot Golf & Country Club has equity shares. All others are initiation based. And one of the benefits of the equity share is that is transferable to a family member and gives you a voting saying in club direction, etc. vs a walk away initiation.

I don't know where you got your info that Camelot is the only equity share club. I think you should have a look about 10 minutes East of you in Rockland. I was a shareholder at Outaouais until I recently sold my share..... Outaouais can 'assess' its shareholder just like Camelot can and both have in the past.

Just clearing up erroneous facts. I am not being a cheerleader for either, both are excellent choices for a membership, it just depends what you are looking for in a Club membership because they are both very different.