Help me with my shaft

[Andy4Par]

Maybe some of you shaft guru's can help me.....

Just picked up a Cleveland Launcher with stock gold stiff shaft. What are the specs for this shaft? Its a little early but I think I'm hitting it quite high. Its a 10.5* head. I am thinking I should try a lower trajectory shaft. My 975J has a stiff Pro-Lite(burgandy) and I hit it lower for sure.(10.5* also), just wanted to know where this Cleveland shaft falls on the Maltby scale. I'm looking at 4B1M mainly.
Any help would be appreciated.

[Weirfan]

Maybe some of you shaft guru's can help me.....

Just picked up a Cleveland Launcher with stock gold stiff shaft. What are the specs for this shaft? Its a little early but I think I'm hitting it quite high. Its a 10.5* head. I am thinking I should try a lower trajectory shaft. My 975J has a stiff Pro-Lite(burgandy) and I hit it lower for sure.(10.5* also), just wanted to know where this Cleveland shaft falls on the Maltby scale. I'm looking at 4B1M mainly.
Any help would be appreciated.

if it is the 330cc the shaft is listed as 65 grams and 3.6 torque .335 tip
400cc 65 grams 3.2 .350

both made for cleveland by fuji

[BC MIST]

Maybe some of you shaft guru's can help me.....

Just picked up a Cleveland Launcher with stock gold stiff shaft. What are the specs for this shaft? Its a little early but I think I'm hitting it quite high. Its a 10.5* head. I am thinking I should try a lower trajectory shaft. My 975J has a stiff Pro-Lite(burgandy) and I hit it lower for sure.(10.5* also), just wanted to know where this Cleveland shaft falls on the Maltby scale. I'm looking at 4B1M mainly.
Any help would be appreciated.

10.5* of loft on one head does NOT mean that all 10.5* lofted drivers will have the ball fly on the same trajectory. The position of the centre of gravity has an effect on trajectory.

The Cleveland Fujikura Launcher (S)shaft is a fairly stiff one, not only in the butt section but in the tip section, the part that has an effect on trajectory. To lower the trajectory a little you would then have to go to a very stiff tipped shaft, the feel of which you may not like.

The factor influencing trajectory the most is head loft.

[Chieflongtee]

The factor influencing trajectory the most is head loft.

Glad you posted that. May I also add that the real loft is the one measured in a golf club gauge.(Hint Hint Doglezard)

[Andy4Par]

if it is the 330cc the shaft is listed as 65 grams and 3.6 torque .335 tip
400cc 65 grams 3.2 .350

both made for cleveland by fuji

Thanks,
Its the 460. Any info on this one?

[BC MIST]

Glad you posted that. May I also add that the real loft is the one measured in a golf club gauge.(Hint Hint Doglezard)

Are you really suggesting that the loft stamped on the heads of some clubs is not the actual loft when measured with a guage?

Could this be similar to similar to calling an "R" shaft and "S" or an "A" an "R", and so on? I just cannot believe that a manufacturer would do anything to mislead us.

What's next? Telling us that square shaped drivers are going to help us hit the ball straighter?

[Andy4Par]

All I know is that this new Driver hits the ball straight, just very high. If I can install a shaft that allows me to hit the ball a little lower great! 9.5, 10.5, 13.2 doesn't matter. The head is the head. I'm just looking for a lower trajectory.

[Weirfan]

Thanks,
Its the 460. Any info on this one?

its a Fuji and .350 tip , 65 grams and torque of 3.2

fwiw the heads loft and your swing are the biggest cotributors to trajectory....

shaft change might not help to the degree that you want....you could try a very tip stiff shaft like the Accuflex Evolution, Aldila VS proto by you , PF 65 gold or Fuji Vista Tour 70 though.

if you go with a .335 shaft you will need to shim it....no issue there though

[mysticalwarrior]

I think before you go any further you should take a freq measurement of the shaft you like then the one you have and see what the difference is. Then you should should try to match the shaft based on frequency to the cleveland club and see what happens from there

[Weirfan]

I think before you go any further you should take a freq measurement of the shaft you like then the one you have and see what the difference is. Then you should should try to match the shaft based on frequency to the cleveland club and see what happens from there

No offence but this is essentially a useless endeavor, unless of course you perform a full shaft frequency profile from butt to tip on the two shafts you are using and know the actual torque etc etc

Frequency measurements look at only one aspect of a shaft the stiffness .....the shafts butt section......it in no way will say anything else about that shaft and its properties throughout the rest of it's profile nor will it be an indication of how stiff of soft that shaft will feel or play.

comparing the butt frequencies of two different shafts is essentially meaningless

[mysticalwarrior]

No offence but this is essentially a useless endeavor, unless of course you perform a full shaft frequency profile from butt to tip on the two shafts you are using and know the actual torque etc etc

Frequency measurements look at only one aspect of a shaft the stiffness .....the shafts butt section......it in no way will say anything else about that shaft and its properties throughout the rest of it's profile nor will it be an indication of how stiff of soft that shaft will feel or play.

comparing the butt frequencies of two different shafts is essentially meaningless

I beg to differ the frequncy matching of the shaft he likes is a good starting point to get him into a shaft that will be similaiir in feel and kick to the one he is using now that he likes. BY no way is he done you are correct in stating there is more involved yes torque is important value and the lower the better regardless of the user so is the stiffness of the tip and how it is trimmed and how he swings the club all important features, but the starting point is what he is using now and works for him now and the fastest way is to check the frequency on a shaft that is known and being used and liked to what he is replacing it with. Also dont forget most if not aLL oem SHAFTS from the big vendors have shafts for the average joe and they are at best stuck into the hosel with no foresite into the proper allignment of the shaft (splinning)

[The Saint]

I beg to differ the frequncy matching of the shaft he likes is a good starting point to get him into a shaft that will be similaiir in feel and kick to the one he is using now that he likes. BY no way is he done you are correct in stating there is more involved yes torque is important value and the lower the better regardless of the user so is the stiffness of the tip and how it is trimmed and how he swings the club all important features, but the starting point is what he is using now and works for him now and the fastest way is to check the frequency on a shaft that is known and being used and liked to what he is replacing it with. Also dont forget most if not aLL oem SHAFTS from the big vendors have shafts for the average joe and they are at best stuck into the hosel with no foresite into the proper allignment of the shaft (splinning)

Sorry, but I have to pipe in here. I am in agreement of Weirfan. There is no way you can compare two shafts by butt frequency only. You will be comparing apples to oranges. Until you know the tip stiffness, torque, kick point the excerise is useless. Frequency matching the shaft is only matching the butt frequency.

[Weirfan]

sorry mysticalwarrior, while some merit can be found in some of your other points you are wrong with respect to butt frequency and what it can offer.

Interestingly, there is a discussion about this on another forum and I found an excellent summation of why butt frequency is not any good to compare shafts...so I have cut and pasted it below.

When you measure a shaft butt in a frequency meter, that's all you are measuring is the butt section of the shaft. "235 cpm" in the butt, does not tell you how stiff the middle and tip of that shaft are - and really doesn't tell you anything about how that shaft will play.

Shaft profiling can get you closer, however you need to measure the shaft in multiple places - generally with a heavier tip weight as well.

The PCS standard for shaft profiling uses a 454g tip weight, measures 11" back from the tip and then every 5" back to the butt to get a basic understanding of how a shaft flexes through it's length.

You can collect similar data using a deflection tool like the NF4 or the Apache Multimatch machine - with the ultimate information available from something that will let you measure what is called the EI Curve of the shaft.

This information, combined with the shaft bend point, balance point, weight and torque is all needed to compare one shaft to another.

[Andy4Par]

its a Fuji and .350 tip , 65 grams and torque of 3.2

fwiw the heads loft and your swing are the biggest cotributors to trajectory....

shaft change might not help to the degree that you want....you could try a very tip stiff shaft like the Accuflex Evolution, Aldila VS proto by you , PF 65 gold or Fuji Vista Tour 70 though.

if you go with a .335 shaft you will need to shim it....no issue there though

What's the tip stiffness of this gold shaft? Kick Point? So I can shim my .335 prolite with no ill effects or am I better off purchasing a .350?

[BC MIST]

I beg to differ the frequncy matching of the shaft he likes is a good starting point to get him into a shaft that will be similaiir in feel and kick to the one he is using now that he likes.

Ten years ago when we did not know any better this may have been "true." However,the overall flex profile of the shaft is extremely important, and there is a correlation between the flex profile of the shaft and how one swings, that determines if the shaft is best for the individual golfer. What should be done is to look at how the golfer starts his downswing, what his overall tempo is, how late he releases the wrist cock angle and then, his overall swing speed. From this information, find a shaft that fits these characteristics.

Let's compare the butt frequency of an Aldila Low Launch 65 S to an Aldila NVS 65 R.
Both have identical BUTT frequencies of 164 cpm. However, in the tip section the former has a frequency of 907 cpm and the latter, 738 cpm, a whopping difference of 169 cpm. These two shafts will neither feel nor perform the same.

BY no way is he done you are correct in stating there is more involved yes torque is important value and the lower the better regardless of the user

This is untrue. By this false logic a 80 year old man with a 70 mph swing should be using a low torque shaft. It your statement were true then why are some shafts made in the 5+* of torque range? It is like saying that if a more flexible shaft gives a golfer more distance, then everyone should be playing a very flexible shaft. The flex of a shaft is NOT a factor in distance, unless the flex is wrong for the golfer. Where the shaft is flexible is important and it is not just in the butt.

[Chieflongtee]

Iam issuing a challenge to you Andy. Go to the GW and have the loft measured. They will probably do it for free. You might be very shocked by the results.

[Chieflongtee]

Warrior. Take a look at the following pic. This device does exactly what the above posters are trying to explain.