I don't get it????

[Big Johnny69]

During last season I had a driver shafted with a UST V2 shaft that had a cpm reading of 267. Now I don't know what length of clamp or what weight UST uses to get their readings, but the shaft was labelled S-flex.

Now I recently picked up a MCC MFS Apache Orange Crush shaft. Sticker on the shaft read 266-270 for the cpm reading. But this one is labelled X-flex. And I read on the MCC site that they use a 5" clamp and a 205 gm weight.

And then I have a Mercury Kevlar Pro at home that has a sticker that says 239 for cpm reading and its labelled s-flex. Doesn't make sense to me.

Just a discrepency in how manufacturers label their shafts or what????

[danscustom]

Lack of Standards

[Big Johnny69]

No doubt, for instance, on the MCC site 239 cpms puts a shaft between A and R-flex. Now MCC has subflexes for all their shafts, 239 puts you right between A and R????

Fitters and club builders constantly talk about how the label on a shaft is meaningless, well when you come across a scenario like I have, the labels and cpms are still meaningless. Who am I supposed to believe????

I've come across two shafts with the same CPM reading that falls into two different flexes according to two companies. And I then have one shaft that is a S to one company, but only an A or R to another. Very confusing to say the least.

[Chieflongtee]

There are discrepancies amongst manufacturers.

During last season I had a driver shafted with a UST V2 shaft that had a cpm reading of 267. Now I don't know what length of clamp or what weight UST uses to get their readings, but the shaft was labelled S-flex.

Was this measured on completed club or marked on the butt of the shaft?

And then I have a Mercury Kevlar Pro at home that has a sticker that says 239 for cpm reading and its labelled s-flex.

according to Mercury that is a soft S
http://konagolfsales.com/specsandtri...aphite%20woods

Now the best tool for standardization out there is the PCS equaliser as all meters are calibrated with the help of a calibration shaft. Then the numbers are punched in an excel spread sheet. My frequency meter can read 302 cpms while another one can measure 298. The PCS is 301 and the software 'fixes' the number so that all clubmakers using the system will all have the same figures.

Now there are other things to consider as well such as shaft raw length(the Kevlar is 45 inches while the other 2 are 46 inches) tip trimming and butt trimming. Different shafts react differently to butt and tip trimming. There are also butt trimming only shafts. Playing length also affects frequency readings.

In order to really compare these shafts they would all have to be measured on the same meter using the same tip weight and beam length.

However as you may have read on this and other forums we are only talking about butt frequency which in the end does not mean much as it only measures the first 5 inches of the shaft's butt.

[Chieflongtee]

I've come across two shafts with the same CPM reading that falls into two different flexes according to two companies. And I then have one shaft that is a S to one company, but only an A or R to another. Very confusing to say the least.

True however a R flex from one company can feel stiffer than a S flex from another company. If a shaft has a stiff butt and a soft tip it will feel and play different than a shaft with a soft butt and a stiff tip.

[Big Johnny69]

Chief, all cpm readings I supplied were the raw length readings. But until there is an industry wide accepted practice for getting shaft readings what is a consumer supposed to think???

I just find it frustrating that we're told as consumers to ignore the reading on the shaft label and go by cpm readings. Something like the situation I came across can make it even more difficult for someone to find a shaft to suit them.

Specs for the UST:

http://www.ustgolfshaft.com/shaft_mo...uct.aspx?id=77

Mine was the 6066 S.

Specs for the Apache:

http://www.mccshafts.com/mfs.html

Mine is the MFS 65 X

Specs for the Kevlar, best I can find:

http://www.myostrichgolf.com/clubmak...roducts_id=189

[The Saint]

I think shaft companies are getting better as they never used to put the CPM's or any other shaft charateristics on the shafts until recently. It will be a few more years before they figure out that consumers are becoming more knowledgible and want standardization and a full profile on the shafts they're purchasing... I dream of such a day. Until then do what research you can on shaft profiles and hope you find one that fits. AND when you find a shaft that works stick with it!!!

[Weirfan]

comparing butt frequencies of different shafts with different profiles is essentially meaningless

[The Saint]

comparing butt frequencies of different shafts with different profiles is essentially meaningless

...

[Kona Golf]

Geoff, Keep in mind that the Mercury Factory used a 3 or 4" clamp (crs) which makes the 239 read higher on a 5" clamp.

Mercury did in fact adopt the PCS system which is approx 10 cpm lower than most manufacturers.

[Chieflongtee]

Jim. No biggie. That is not what it says on your website.

http://konagolfsales.com/specsandtrim.htm

Raw Length CPM obtained using a Digi-Flex Frequency Analyzer Butt Clamped 5" using a 205 Gram Cylinder Weight with 1.25" Hosel Depth.

[Kona Golf]

You are absolutely right!

TO OBTAIN CENTERLINE "S" FLEX DRIVER...
Taking a raw length 240 CPM Shaft, and a Driver Head weighing 194 grams with a Hosel Depth of 1.5". When assembled to 45" produces a CPM of 248.

This was done by Terry Gould in California. The factory actually used a 2.5 or 3 inch clamp when they were sorting and labeling the shafts.

[danscustom]

comparing butt frequencies of different shafts with different profiles is essentially meaningless

Pete, I keep seeing lots of people quoting this, but I am not completely on board.
When I was at the PCS AMC a few weeks ago Jerry Hoofling Sr. did a presentation on shaft profiling.
The Butt numbers from a 41 and 36 inch beam length, are very much needed in the swing speed category.
The mid numbers from a 31, 26 and 21 inch beam are for tempo, and the 16 and 11 inch beam length are for the release point.
Jerry claims to run an 85% success rate with this profiling system (which he is using to get his PCS Masters Papers). This guy was the most knowlegeable shaft profiler I've met and he seems to have the numbers to back it.
With all do respect my thoughts are Butt frequency has lots to do with determining the correct shaft - for 1/3 of the scenerio.

[Weirfan]

Pete, I keep seeing lots of people quoting this, but I am not completely on board.
When I was at the PCS AMC a few weeks ago Jerry Hoofling Sr. did a presentation on shaft profiling.
The Butt numbers from a 41 and 36 inch beam length, are very much needed in the swing speed category.
The mid numbers from a 31, 26 and 21 inch beam are for tempo, and the 16 and 11 inch beam length are for the release point.
Jerry claims to run an 85% success rate with this profiling system (which he is using to get his PCS Masters Papers). This guy was the most knowlegeable shaft profiler I've met and he seems to have the numbers to back it.
With all do respect my thoughts are Butt frequency has lots to do with determining the correct shaft - for 1/3 of the scenerio.

Interesting stuff, cannot wait to hear more. However he is incorporating multiple points not just the butt and I would agree that this would help alot more in determining the appropriate shaft for someone.

as for the 1/3 success ratio?? i don't know. I guess that many shafts will have similar profiles, and if you know that then fine.....but if you don't them butt freq is just that....the stiffness in the butt end, nothing more...tells you nothing else at all about the rest of the shaft.

If the majority of higher h/c golfers are early releasers , they don't load a shaft properly and the effect of shaft load on a shot is pretty much non existant for them by time impact occurs......so profile is less important for these peeps, and it is shaft feel parameters that are the main factors in these cases. Success with a shaft can be much higher here.

in the mid - late releasers the profile is more important in my opinion, and obviously needs to take into account ss, tempo, strength, transition etc.