Simon Suspended Indefinitely

**LobWedge** · 03-09-2007 01:48 PM

The suspension is pending a league hearing. Nice hatchet job on Hollweg last night.

What a tool.

**jeffc** · 03-09-2007 01:54 PM

it was pretty bad. I think he should be gone for the rest of the year including the playoffs.

**Eldred** · 03-09-2007 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by LobWedge

The suspension is pending a league hearing. Nice hatchet job on Hollweg last night.

What a tool.

Haven't seen stick work like that since Dino Ciccarelli whack job..

**Hacker** · 03-09-2007 01:56 PM

This is a lose, lose one for the league IMO. Colin Campbell has been handing out the punishment based on the resulting injury for the past few years without enough attention being paid to the intent.

Now we have what is obviously intent to do gross bodily harm that somehow ended up with little to no injury. The league obviously has to hand out a stiff suspension, but in doing so they will be setting a precedent for punishing intent instead of the resultant injury (which I think should have always been the case).

Good luck with this one Colie - you're gonna need it

**3Jack** · 03-09-2007 02:00 PM

You have to punish the intent. Punishment based on the resulting injury has never worked, in any league. Intent must be punished to truely deter potential offenders.

The NHL has to evolve, get away from its frontier justice reputation which continues to perpetuate itself despite NHL head office double-speak.

**LobWedge** · 03-09-2007 02:03 PM

Simon's so lucky, 2" lower and he could have crushed Hollweg's windpipe.

**dhacker1956** · 03-09-2007 02:21 PM

Not the biggest hockey fan in the world here. I guess we just don't have it in Indiana. But I saw the video of the dessimation on ESPN. Did you all see the look on his face right before he whacked that guy. In my opinion anyone with that kind on "brain" or lack thereof deserves to be turning out license plates. I would be if I hit my opponent on the golf course with a 6 iron. He at least needs to be slaving away in some factory to support himself. NO place in front of the public with that kind of behavior. BTW he's a GREAT role model for all the young boys watching the NHL.

**jonf** · 03-09-2007 02:47 PM

I'm sorry, but don't give me that role model crap. Hockey players are hockey players. If we think they should be role models that's our problem, not theirs. Parents should be role models, not hockey players.

Also, as much as I don't want to get into this argument...actions on the hockey rink are different than actions on a golf course. A clean body-check would be considered assault if you did it on the street. So would a good tackle in football. So would any number of fouls in basketball. So let's not get too caught up in this "athletes should be judged on the same standards as every other member of society" attitude. There is an assumption of risk when you play sports.

As for the play...I have to reserve judgement because I have not seen it yet, but from what I have heard, it was pretty brutal. And I must say, as always, I agree with everyone who has been saying that you have to punish the play, not the injury.

**jeffc** · 03-09-2007 02:52 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht6RyAI9370

**jonf** · 03-09-2007 02:58 PM

To play devil's advocate here. That was a hit from behind by Holweg, so Simon was understandably pissed. He got his face smashed into the boards on what was an illegal hit (and looked pretty dazed as he got up). That said, you gotta boot him for life. That was much more vicious than what mcsorley did. There's no comparison. That kind of play just can't be accepted.

**Hacker** · 03-09-2007 03:13 PM

For the record, Holweg's hit was not a clean shot but COME ON Chris!!!

**BC MIST** · 03-09-2007 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by jonf

Also, as much as I don't want to get into this argument...actions on the hockey rink are different than actions on a golf course. A clean body-check would be considered assault if you did it on the street. So would a good tackle in football. So would any number of fouls in basketball. So let's not get too caught up in this "athletes should be judged on the same standards as every other member of society" attitude. There is an assumption of risk when you play sports.

With this same extremely flawed logic, you would then agree that Steve Moore deserved to be punched unconscious from behind by Todd Bertuzzi, and then have his neck crushed by this 220 pound good driving Moore's body into the ice. ("actions on the hockey rink are different than actions on a golf course" "There is an assumption of risk when you play sports."

There is a serious difference between a good BODY check, meant to impede the player's movement after handling the puck, and these two (Simon/Bertuzzi) deliberate attempts to maim another player. One of these days, the player is NOT going to get up, and what then? Oh, it's just part of the game.

The above mentality is sadly shared by a few General Managers who seem to have the most say when discussing rule changes, with Brian Burke being the absolute worst. He feels that this stuff is just fine, thank you. Get over it.

**Indio** · 03-09-2007 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by BC MIST

With this same extremely flawed logic, you would then agree that Steve Moore deserved to be punched unconscious from behind by Todd Bertuzzi, and then have his neck crushed by this 220 pound good driving Moore's body into the ice. ("actions on the hockey rink are different than actions on a golf course" "There is an assumption of risk when you play sports."

There is a serious difference between a good BODY check, meant to impede the player's movement after handling the puck, and these two (Simon/Bertuzzi) deliberate attempts to maim another player. One of these days, the player is NOT going to get up, and what then? Oh, it's just part of the game.

The above mentality is sadly shared by a few General Managers who seem to have the most say when discussing rule changes, with Brian Burke being the absolute worst. He feels that this stuff is just fine, thank you. Get over it.

I think what Jon is trying to say is we should not compare what happens on a hockey rink to the same conduct on a golf course or in everyday life, there is just no comparing it. However having said that, I for one believe that Bertuzzi should have been suspended for life, just my opinion that I am not going to force on anyone else nor is it iopen for debate. I haven't seen the Simon hit yet because the filter at work won't let me go to Youtube, but I will look at it from home tomight and if it is what has been described, then he should be gone for life as well.... Hockey is a rough enough game without players using thier sticks to 'get even' after someone hits them.

**jonf** · 03-09-2007 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by BC MIST

With this same extremely flawed logic, you would then agree that Steve Moore deserved to be punched unconscious from behind by Todd Bertuzzi, and then have his neck crushed by this 220 pound good driving Moore's body into the ice. ("actions on the hockey rink are different than actions on a golf course" "There is an assumption of risk when you play sports."

There is a serious difference between a good BODY check, meant to impede the player's movement after handling the puck, and these two (Simon/Bertuzzi) deliberate attempts to maim another player. One of these days, the player is NOT going to get up, and what then? Oh, it's just part of the game.

The above mentality is sadly shared by a few General Managers who seem to have the most say when discussing rule changes, with Brian Burke being the absolute worst. He feels that this stuff is just fine, thank you. Get over it.

I must say, you've done a fabulous job of misrepresenting my views. First of all, I never said anything about people deserving to get hit...that was simply your fabrication (and a very sneaky way of making your argument seem more convincing my painting me as some soulless goon who thinks Moore deserved every ounce of what he got).

I am not trying to say that there is no circumstance in which a player should be held responsible off ice for their actions on the ice. I am just saying that it is not nearly so simple as saying "if I had done it on the golf course, I would be in jail," because just about everything done on the ice, against the rules or not, would land you in jail. Bertuzzi was punished (if I remember correctly) in court for his actions and, given the circumstances surrounding the hit, I had no problem with that. But the simple fact is, the hockey rink is not the street, and there are significant differences that have to be addressed.

Also, I don't think anyone feels this stuff is just fine. They just think its better to police themselves, because as soon as you bring authorities in, you risk starting a slippery slope. Given the relative infrequency of such events, there is no reason to panic. Also, the view that the authorities should be brought in to stop such acts seems to assume that the law actually acts as a deterrent which, as many would argue, is rarely the case.

**knickers** · 03-09-2007 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by dhacker1956

Not the biggest hockey fan in the world here. I guess we just don't have it in Indiana. But I saw the video of the dessimation on ESPN. Did you all see the look on his face right before he whacked that guy. In my opinion anyone with that kind on "brain" or lack thereof deserves to be turning out license plates. I would be if I hit my opponent on the golf course with a 6 iron. He at least needs to be slaving away in some factory to support himself. NO place in front of the public with that kind of behavior. BTW he's a GREAT role model for all the young boys watching the NHL.

I dont want to deffend this incident because it was bad as it gets in the NHL and should be punished with a season long suspension.
That said if you know anything about Chris Simon. He might be a perfect role model for some. He has come from a poor and I mean poor place, he has battled and won a extreme drinking problem and has become a stand up person off the ice. His charity work is second to none and is considered a leader and role model on every team he has played for.
I doubt there is anyone that can say they haven't done something and regreted it the second it was over.
He'll get his punisment and it will be hard but knowone should be attacking his integrity over a spur of the moment incident that happened during the heat of battle. there are many pro athletes that are genuine A**holes but Simon is not one of them.

**jonf** · 03-09-2007 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by knickers

I dont want to deffend this incident because it was bad as it gets in the NHL and should be punished with a season long suspension.
That said if you know anything about Chris Simon. He might be a perfect role model for some. He has come from a poor and I mean poor place, he has battled and won a extreme drinking problem and has become a stand up person off the ice. His charity work is second to none and is considered a leader and role model on every team he has played for.
I doubt there is anyone that can say they haven't done something and regreted it the second it was over.
He'll get his punisment and it will be hard but knowone should be attacking his integrity over a spur of the moment incident that happened during the heat of battle. there are many pro athletes that are genuine assholes but Simon is not one of them.

Very good points. And, although I don't think we should necessarily view athletes as role models, I have to say that, in many ways, it is how he reacts to the forthcoming suspension that will set the best (or worst) example. If he accepts his punishment graciously and apologizes sincerely, this is as good an example as any.

**3Jack** · 03-09-2007 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by jonf

Very good points. And, although I don't think we should necessarily view athletes as role models, I have to say that, in many ways, it is how he reacts to the forthcoming suspension that will set the best (or worst) example. If he accepts his punishment graciously and apologizes sincerely, this is as good an example as any.

I don't think apologizing and graciously accepting his punishment will qualify him as a role model.

Sportsmanship is a dying trait amongst the majority of modern day athletes, a trait that is exposed every day due to incidents like this...

**jonf** · 03-09-2007 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by 3Jack

I don't think apologizing and graciously accepting his punishment will qualify him as a role model.

Sportsmanship is a dying trait amongst the majority of modern day athletes, a trait that is exposed every day due to incidents like this...

It doesn't make him a perfect role model, no, but it helps. Everyone makes mistakes, and its the ability to deal with them and make amends that makes a good person.

**LobWedge** · 03-09-2007 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by jonf

To play devil's advocate here. That was a hit from behind by Holweg, so Simon was understandably pissed. He got his face smashed into the boards on what was an illegal hit (and looked pretty dazed as he got up). That said, you gotta boot him for life. That was much more vicious than what mcsorley did. There's no comparison. That kind of play just can't be accepted.

Actually, if you look at the MSG network feed of Hollweg's hit on Simon, he actually catches him on the left shoulder as Simon is playing the puck back in to the corner. The hit is much cleaner than it looked on the ESPN feed.

**Indio** · 03-09-2007 05:11 PM

Having now seen the video, it isnt as bad as I thought it was going to be but I think its going to cost him a unch of games. I'm just not sure how many since the NHL is so inconsistent. Personally I think at a minimum the rest of the year including playoffs.

**jonf** · 03-09-2007 05:12 PM

Its definitely not right in his back, but it was still from behind, regardless of whether it was his shoulder. Certainly not the worst hit from behind I've ever seen, by any stretch of the imagination, but it was definitely not clean. All Hollweg could see was numbers.

**mpare** · 03-09-2007 05:40 PM

I just watched the video that JeffC made reference to. Simon will be lucky if it is only the NHL that punishes him. If I were him, I'd be worried about a criminal prosecution.

**Chieflongtee** · 03-09-2007 07:12 PM

Simon now claims that he can't travel because he suffered a concussion from the hit. Come on. If anybody here ever had a concussion then you'll know what I am talking about. The last thing on anyone's mind after suffering a concussion is retaliation. You can't even differentiate your wife from your mother in law.

Give me a break.

**dhacker1956** · 03-09-2007 08:02 PM

You misunderstood my point jonf. I nevre meant to say an "unreal" celebrity should ever be a role model in life for our kids. You are right on when you say that is arole left entirely for the parents to fill. What I was saying, and I assume hockey in Canada is like baseball down here, is that on the filed we want our kids to have palyers they look up to ON the field or the ON the ice. Surely not what you could say about that action we are all referring to. NO hit that was legal enough not to get called by the officials should be provocation for anything CLOSE to what Simon did. As a matter of fact no one should ever even entertain thoughts of that kind of brutality.

**Indio** · 03-09-2007 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by dhacker1956

You misunderstood my point jonf. I nevre meant to say an "unreal" celebrity should ever be a role model in life for our kids. You are right on when you say that is arole left entirely for the parents to fill. What I was saying, and I assume hockey in Canada is like baseball down here, is that on the filed we want our kids to have palyers they look up to ON the field or the ON the ice. Surely not what you could say about that action we are all referring to. NO hit that was legal enough not to get called by the officials should be provocation for anything CLOSE to what Simon did. As a matter of fact no one should ever even entertain thoughts of that kind of brutality.

Ya know something, I am not sure I would want my kids growing up using any sports figure as a role model..... IMHO every single one of them are GREEDY self centred, only looking out for number one so and so's....

So are you of the opinion that us Canucks are peace lovin, tree huggin, anti-violence gun haters??

Welcome to Canada eh

**dhacker1956** · 03-09-2007 08:49 PM

Never meant to denigrate anyone. I'm sure that you are pretty much like me. Fight only when necessary and try to turn the other cheek whenever I can. By the same token I am no "milktoast" just because I trust in HIM. HE is my only true role model. Again I never meant to imply any celebrity, whom BTW I consider fake (Aren't they all actors and entertainers?) should ever be any role model for life. What I guess I was trying to say was there are kids who look to them to emulate for their on field(ice) actions and playing styles. I used to try and emulate a US golfer, Russ Cochran, and I was a lot older than a child, not for his life style, which I knew nothing of, but for his on course demeanor and skill. Not to mention the way he interacted with the galleries and treated them like human beings and not a meal ticket. I know of this from personal experience.
SO don't take me wrong I nothing but the highest regards for ALL of HIS creatures unlessthey show me I can't or shouldn't have it.

**Indio** · 03-09-2007 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by dhacker1956

Never meant to denigrate anyone. I'm sure that you are pretty much like me. Fight only when necessary and try to turn the other cheek whenever I can. By the same token I am no "milktoast" just because I trust in HIM. HE is my only true role model. Again I never meant to imply any celebrity, whom BTW I consider fake (Aren't they all actors and entertainers?) should ever be any role model for life. What I guess I was trying to say was there are kids who look to them to emulate for their on field(ice) actions and playing styles. I used to try and emulate a US golfer, Russ Cochran, and I was a lot older than a child, not for his life style, which I knew nothing of, but for his on course demeanor and skill. Not to mention the way he interacted with the galleries and treated them like human beings and not a meal ticket. I know of this from personal experience.
SO don't take me wrong I nothing but the highest regards for ALL of HIS creatures unlessthey show me I can't or shouldn't have it.

I didn't think you were tying to denegrate anyone.... my last comment was tongue in cheek. I usually spend 4 to 6 weeks in California in the winter and the friends I have down there are always on my case about how can we tree hugging pacifist Canucks be so brutal and agressive when we put skates on..... I just say be thankful I dont have skates on when we get to the first tee....

**jonf** · 03-10-2007 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by Chieflongtee

Simon now claims that he can't travel because he suffered a concussion from the hit. Come on. If anybody here ever had a concussion then you'll know what I am talking about. The last thing on anyone's mind after suffering a concussion is retaliation. You can't even differentiate your wife from your mother in law.

Give me a break.

I don't know. His eyes definitely have that glassy look over them when he first gets up. I would not be at all surprised if he had a concussion. He hit face first into the boards. Its not an excuse, but it probably contribute to his stupid play.

**Chieflongtee** · 03-10-2007 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by jonf

I don't know. His eyes definitely have that glassy look over them when he first gets up. I would not be at all surprised if he had a concussion. He hit face first into the boards. Its not an excuse, but it probably contribute to his stupid play.

Seriously doubt it. Like I wrote when you have a concussion you are lost and you would not have that reaction. On to another topic. The fans are cheering him as he skates off the ice

**jeffc** · 03-10-2007 09:26 AM

I doubt very much a team doctor would lie about a concussion.

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