More "PLANE" Truth

[sensfan63]

Many years ago Ray Haines and Stan Kolar were the only local MASTER CPGA professionals in the Ottawa area and both were excellent teachers. As this distinction is hard to achieve I was wondering who else has earned locally

What "pga teachers" (American) do you know?

Don't know about Ottawa Master CPGA pros...they weren't who I was referring to.

Anyways, the point of my post was to disagree with some of the teachings of Mr Dunigan. I visited his website recently and was kind of surprised at some of the stuff on there.

I just don't like it when people accept someone's teaching as gospel when one or two players on the forum say "he's good, I've read his book and tried his teachings and they work." There are a lot of philosophies out there, some good and some bad...I just happen to believe that Mr Dunigan's is not the best I've ever seen.

[sweeper]

IMOP an awful a lot of golfers and teachers are making Isaac Newton
rolling in his grave. Golf swing is a motion and physics laws are modus operandi...
Looking back I wish I focused on 'applying and aligning force' instead of putting
myself into weird positions... I wish I tried to generate and sustain force intead
of trying to generate clubhead speed... But I'm glad I kept on searching...

Unfortunately today the pop instruction is based on
positions and feel. But if golfers don't understand the mechanics, they can't
produce the same feel and positions day in and day out... If a golfer
focuses on 'applying and aligning force', anything else that happens during
the swing are just by-the-way happenings.

Alignment golf simply smothers position golf... Homer Kelley
Thanks Mr. Kelley...

[BC MIST]

Anyways, the point of my post was to disagree with some of the teachings of Mr Dunigan. I visited his website recently and was kind of surprised at some of the stuff on there.

I just don't like it when people accept someone's teaching as gospel when one or two players on the forum say "he's good, I've read his book and tried his teachings and they work." There are a lot of philosophies out there, some good and some bad...I just happen to believe that Mr Dunigan's is not the best I've ever seen.

I suppose that swing ideas that are contrary to those that are mainstream may seem a little funny. What specific things, besides weight on the heels, seem strange to you, about John's teachings?

What other teaching philosophies would you deem to be better than John's?

I am no scientist, but I do believe that there is one perfect way for the club to come into the ball at impact that will yield a perfect shot. Physics says so. It is called "ideal mechanical advantage." All the various philosophies to which you refer reflect individuals perceptions and feelings of what happens in a good golf swing. Sadly and very unfortunately, these individuals base their teaching on the swings of the PGA TOUR players, many of whom have terrible golf swings. They look at Jack Nicklaus or Tiger Woods as GODS, instead as just superior athletes who have the inate ability to repeat the compensations they have developed for the faults in their swings.

What John does, as does Mark Evershed, as does TGM, as does Jim Hardy (a little) is to get you returning as close to the ideal plane/path that will maximize both distance and direction. The challenge of any teacher or teaching philosophy is to educate you about what is ideal, from a physics point of view, and then to teach you the feelings necessary to get there. John and Mark do this, Leadbetter, MacLean, Smith et all, while hugely popular, leave much to be desired.

While we are not machines, what machines always hit the ball straight? "Iron Byron," "Max Head Speed" and the like do. They swing on a single axis and a single, perfect plane. Logically then, anyone who teaches you to come into the ball on the same plane have the correct knowledge and the key is to be able to communicate this information to you.

The real problem is not learning the flatter, inside path to the ball, but in unlearning the old, less efficient upright, off plane type of golf swing. Ben Hogan and Moe Norman were the best ball strikers ever, and both had "identical" swings in that they were FLAT, and they both came into the ball along the shaft axis plane, where compensations were unnecessary.

A few looks at the "Knowledge Video" should open up some eyes, however, if golfers minds are made up, then the facts would cause confusion.

[BC MIST]

IMOP an awful a lot of golfers and teachers are making Isaac Newton
rolling in his grave. Golf swing is a motion and physics laws are modus operandi...
Looking back I wish I focused on 'applying and aligning force' instead of putting
myself into weird positions... I wish I tried to generate and sustain force intead
of trying to generate clubhead speed... But I'm glad I kept on searching...

Unfortunately today the pop instruction is based on
positions and feel. But if golfers don't understand the mechanics, they can't
produce the same feel and positions day in and day out... If a golfer
focuses on 'applying and aligning force', anything else that happens during
the swing are just by-the-way happenings.

Alignment golf simply smothers position golf... Homer Kelley
Thanks Mr. Kelley...

Amen!!!

[john dunigan]

Sens fan,

As a die hard Flyers fan (yeah, yeah) I have to tell you, I hate the sens!

So now that that's out of the way let me say this. Although most of what you will see on my web site is designed for the 99% of golfers who are struggling with over the top and early release and such, you have to realize that I could say exactly the opposite thing to two different players. the post to power draw is for HIM. You teach the student, not the swing!

I certainly welcome debate as long as it doesn't turn nasty, but right and wrong are very dangerous words in this business. The best I can do is tell you what I believe and give you a well thought out, reasoned answer as to why...

THe reason why I believe, and a couple of leading biomechanists I've talked to agree (I have also seen the print outs of several great golfers when analyzed with weight plates under their feet) is that you have to resist the throw out action of the club as it moves into and through impact. You could even call it equal and opposite forces. You simply can't do that on the balls of your feet. I would suppose that MANY golfers who believe in setting up on the balls of their feet move heelward during the downswing. If I'm right, then what's the difference between starting there or getting there? Could have an impact on address position and toe shots???

Now, you have to tell me why you believe in the balls of the feet without mentioning the word "athletic," which is so overused it's almost meaningless.

JD

[john dunigan]

Part of the problem with creating books is that you can only base them on what you believe. The beauty of live instruction is that you can actually see the student swing, see what he already does well, what he lacks and then lead him straight to the solution. Can't do that with a book, hence the dvd set. Better, still not as good. Hence the video camera. please, before you try to follow anyone's instruction, see what you are already doing so that you can figure out where to start. Without video, it's more of the blind struggle all over again.

I have to admit, for the size of my web site and all those words in my books and dvds, I'm just trying to get folks to apply the club to the ball in such a way as to be able to predict the outcome consistently. Now, that's not so bad, is it?

JD

[GolfOttawa]

JD,

I have read your books and watched your video and I must say that of all the instruction video's and books that I have read and watched you are the only person that ever even mentions ballflight. What is important to me is that I have a reference point to ever shot (the target line) and feed back about my swing is free if I understand ballflight thanks to your teachings. I have been playing this great game for almost 30 years and for the first time since reading and understanding your methods I am now just looking for a target to hit and playing the game instead of looking for perfect mechanics and perfection on the course and my handicap with alot of short game practice to boot has droped from 15 to a 2 and I now no the secret for me was to buy into a method and just play golf.

Thanks

[john dunigan]

GO,

Thank you! I have to tell you, I believe that all any teaching pro wants to do is help people just like you.

JD

[Powerdraw]

Jd,

'knowledge Video'????

[BC MIST]

Jd,

'knowledge Video'????

The "Knowledge Video" is from Mark Evershed.

http://www.markevershedgolf.com/inde...owse&pageid=34