Eagle Creek sold (maybe)

[Bisch]

You can’t purchase a membership at HP and play all your round at EC, GH and Kanata. In your contract it says that you must play more 60% (not sure of the actual %) at your home course. If that is not attained you will be charged a penalty at the end of the year. The fee will be calculated in relation with the course you played the most.

I asked a similar question to John Bodden (CL) and was told they don't track local usage, but are only particular about playing out of your area. This is for example to prevent Toronto players from buying a membership in Ottawa at a much lower cost then playing all their golf in Toronto. A member must only participate in their home courses leagues and events, but there is no watch on how many rounds you play locally not at your home course. One doesn't get preferable tee times when playing away from their home course and the ability to play in other courses events.

Other then that there will not be any watch out on what % you play at your home course. I went through my 1X page contract and also saw no mention of this clause (supporting John's answer). Maybe this will be changed in the future depending on how EC effects the local playing dynamic at CL.
I have not found mention of this clause in anything I've signed or anything found on the the CL webpage thus far, but if it's out there please post as I personally joined HP late in the year and haven't tee'd a ball up with CL yet there and might have to consider asking the question about moving my membership to GH or EC.

[PEI Golfing]

It's usually written in the bylaws and goes something like:

The transfer fee, as determined by ClubLink, in its sole and absolute discretion, from time to time, shall be a percentage of the then applicable initial membership fee for an initial Principal or Corporate Membership.

So if they are trying to boost the membership at EC, you may see a low percentage...

I am sure all these questions regarding transfer fees, % playing at your home course etc.....will be answered at your upcoming CL meetings.

However, very curious getting back to if CL trys to entice players from Kanata to join EC, what in your best estimation do you think the % will be set at.
Lets say the membership at EC is set around $22,000 - $25,000. What do you think this percentage of the membership will be? Will it be 10%, 15%, 25%, 50%, 75%......??? Perhaps someone out there recalls a similiar situation with a new CL course in the Toronto area, and CL trying the entice members over from another CL club....?
Can the Kanata club withstand a large number leaving for EC.......?

[4jag]

It's bad enough the public golfers lose courses to CL, but is that really nessesary? Comments like that are part of the problem. When CL members rub our noses in it, it is an attitude that I personally resent. I have seen it before in this forum and I for one do not like it.

I am not a CL member and I certainly didn't think mberube was rubbing anyones noses anywhere. But by adding the "stir the pot" smilie he was trying to generate a re-action which he did. Mission accomplished.

I can't help but think that your strong reaction Dan was at least in part because you see CL as a competitor to OttawaGolf both in terms of removing public courses and attracting members. Just my opinion.

[Thunder]

It will almost be impossible to have the club as a private course the first year. First of all, there are not enough lockers for members nor is there any club storsge area. The clubhouse will have to be renovated again and possibly even an additional building added for carts. Then they can turn the storage area for the carts downstairs into club storage and increase the size of the locker room. IMO when it does go private, they will say for instance: OK Kanata members pay $2500 initiation, Greyhawk pay $5000 and Dome pay $10000 for example. I'm sure the #'s will be different but that will be the only fair way to do it. Or a first time member can maybe purchase outright for $25-30K. No matter how you look at it, Clublink members just picked up the best course in Ottawa. BOO HOO

[Pinshark]

The first time I played EC was this past summer and was very dissapointed that I could not get a membership to the course. Far and away IMO the best course in the area. Although it would be to far from home and to expensive to actually join EC if it is CL I will seriously look at a membership at Hautes Plaines. Being 26 the fees are rather reasonable from what I see on the website and if I could play a few rounds a year at EC then all the better. My 2 cents

[John]

I am not a CL member and I certainly didn't think mberube was rubbing anyones noses anywhere. But by adding the "stir the pot" smilie he was trying to generate a re-action which he did. Mission accomplished.

I can't help but think that your strong reaction Dan was at least in part because you see CL as a competitor to OttawaGolf both in terms of removing public courses and attracting members. Just my opinion.

The second part of that quote makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever!!

[Colby]

The second part of that quote makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever!!

It's hard on public golfers to lose the top tracks in an area. Ottawa has a lot of courses, but only a very few top ones. EC, Marshes, Loch March, Stonebridge to name the ones usually at the top of everyones list. EC and Stonebridge have been the ones talked about most in terms of Clublink buying them. Not only is it money out of Dan's pockets, as when EC did not renew their featured course listing, but it removes some of the top tracks from the public golfer. Not really a competitor as Dan doesn't own any courses, although he might wish he did, but certainly revenue lost unless Clublink starts talking.

[mberube]

I asked a similar question to John Bodden (CL) and was told they don't track local usage, but are only particular about playing out of your area. This is for example to prevent Toronto players from buying a membership in Ottawa at a much lower cost then playing all their golf in Toronto. A member must only participate in their home courses leagues and events, but there is no watch on how many rounds you play locally not at your home course. One doesn't get preferable tee times when playing away from their home course and the ability to play in other courses events.

Other then that there will not be any watch out on what % you play at your home course. I went through my 1X page contract and also saw no mention of this clause (supporting John's answer). Maybe this will be changed in the future depending on how EC effects the local playing dynamic at CL.
I have not found mention of this clause in anything I've signed or anything found on the the CL webpage thus far, but if it's out there please post as I personally joined HP late in the year and haven't tee'd a ball up with CL yet there and might have to consider asking the question about moving my membership to GH or EC.

I remember JBodden telling that they can easily see where you play the majority of your rounds when I signed up a few years back. I probably misunderstood but that was always my understanding.

Mike

[Colby]

It will almost be impossible to have the club as a private course the first year. First of all, there are not enough lockers for members nor is there any club storsge area. The clubhouse will have to be renovated again and possibly even an additional building added for carts. Then they can turn the storage area for the carts downstairs into club storage and increase the size of the locker room. IMO when it does go private, they will say for instance: OK Kanata members pay $2500 initiation, Greyhawk pay $5000 and Dome pay $10000 for example. I'm sure the #'s will be different but that will be the only fair way to do it. Or a first time member can maybe purchase outright for $25-30K. No matter how you look at it, Clublink members just picked up the best course in Ottawa. BOO HOO

I think you will see a discount rate for the first few weeks. Maybe below 20K. As for the clubhouse, renos wouldn't start right away. They are probably looking at getting around 300 members. The amount of tournament traffic that would migrate there may also prove to be substantial.

[mberube]

It will almost be impossible to have the club as a private course the first year. First of all, there are not enough lockers for members nor is there any club storsge area. The clubhouse will have to be renovated again and possibly even an additional building added for carts. Then they can turn the storage area for the carts downstairs into club storage and increase the size of the locker room. IMO when it does go private, they will say for instance: OK Kanata members pay $2500 initiation, Greyhawk pay $5000 and Dome pay $10000 for example. I'm sure the #'s will be different but that will be the only fair way to do it. Or a first time member can maybe purchase outright for $25-30K. No matter how you look at it, Clublink members just picked up the best course in Ottawa. BOO HOO

I don’t think that EC will be over 15000$ at least for the first couple of years.

Don’t forget that this course went bankrupt when it was private at the very beginning.

[dogleg]

I have been a clublink member for about 6 or 7 years now. I was one of the first to join when HP (Dome) went private. When CL bought it they left it public for over a year and only then did it go private. The reason was probably to build up their initial membership base. They had great deals for the initiation fees (I think ~ $3500 back then).

They do have the occasion deals to switch club membership (ie. Greyhawk to kanata) in order to even out their membership rosters. There is also no limits on what courses a member can play. HP is going gold this year, so their members can play all platinum level courses now without paying the recriprocal fees.

I also heard that EC was going to start at a silver level club, so that the membership fees are kept down and are affordable.

[lms]

Clublink to me is all about having many courses to play, all included in my annual fees.

So I don't think silver would make sense if Eagle Creek wants to recruit lots of new members (which of course they do), as you would then have to pay to play at any of the other courses. When HP was silver there was no reason for me to join, and for me Kanata is not good value for your money or I would have joined a few years ago.

Once HP was confirmed to be going gold it made joining a great deal. The fact that they discounted the joining price made it an even better deal.

[Section Thirty One]

Clublink to me is all about having many courses to play, all included in my annual fees.

So I don't think silver would make sense if Eagle Creek wants to recruit lots of new members (which of course they do), as you would then have to pay to play at any of the other courses. When HP was silver there was no reason for me to join, and for me Kanata is not good value for your money or I would have joined a few years ago.

Once HP was confirmed to be going gold it made joining a great deal. The fact that they discounted the joining price made it an even better deal.

Ditto for me.

There is no chance of EC coming in at the Silver level. The members who joined wouldn't even be able to play Kanata without a reciprocal fee!

[mberube]

I have a question for all the non-CL members that are _____-off about losing EC to CL and say that a CL membership is out of their budget. How many rounds per year do you play EC? If you play EC at 80$/round there is nothing stopping you from joining a CL course.

Personally if I played 5 rounds or less per year at a course that just turned private, I’m not going to lose sleep over it. I will play somewhere else and play the same amount of rounds at that course with a member. Now if I play 30-40-50 rounds per year then I will do everything that I can to join.

In this case you can join HP for 6500$ over 10 years = 54$ a mount + 2700/year with taxes to play. That membership is paid after only 40 rounds at EC.

Mike

[jvincent]

I think most people are upset because they don't necessarily know CL members and as such will be more restricted in their ability to get on.

I work in Kanata and used to play a few twilight rounds at EC after work, which I won't be able to do anymore so that's mildly annoying. I think I played 6 rounds at EC last year, including the Sun Scramble. I agree though, that all in all, it's not the end of the world.

I will be hitting up the CL members on the board for the occaisional round though.

[Kilroy]

How many rounds per year do you play EC? If you play EC at 80$/round there is nothing stopping you from joining a CL course.

The average public golfer plays less than 20 rounds a year. When you get to over 20 you start looking for an RM - Corporate - Executive type deal. When you hit 40 - 50 + rounds per year you think about a full membership at your favorite track.

To the public golfer playing 20 rounds a year I think that the idea of the losing access to a course you love that you play perhaps 2 - 4 times a year is indeed a loss, and there are a lot of people in that bracket.

$75+ is a lot of money to the average player in Ottawa. Remeber you can play a lesser course for as little as $30 if you want to, and the average public golfer is not looking for top conditions every round.

I think most people involved in this forum won't have a problem getting an invite from a CL member to play at any CL course if they ask nicely. They will have nothing to complain about in that regard. That is of course, if the guest fees are kept at the $75 level that Andre held on to for the last 8 years.

All of that being said, Joe Blow off the street will not be able to get a tee time, nor will tourists who are not CL members be able to play one of Canada's best (formerly public) tracks.

Just trying to look at all sides here.

[spackler]

I have a question for all the non-CL members that are _____-off about losing EC to CL and say that a CL membership is out of their budget. How many rounds per year do you play EC? If you play EC at 80$/round there is nothing stopping you from joining a CL course.

I would compare this situation to going out for dinner. People go out for dinner all the time, but they're not generally hitting les Fougeres or Becktas each time. More likely, they save those types of restaurants for special occasions. Say there were only three or four of those types of restaurants, but one all of a sudden closed. Does it affect your daily life, or even your normal dining out? Not really. But one of things you might have looked forward to, maybe even if you only went once a year, has been (in this case) taken away. So does it affect you? You bet, and that's why people are upset.

[PEI Golfing]

I have a question for all the non-CL members that are _____-off about losing EC to CL and say that a CL membership is out of their budget. How many rounds per year do you play EC? If you play EC at 80$/round there is nothing stopping you from joining a CL course.

Personally if I played 5 rounds or less per year at a course that just turned private, I’m not going to lose sleep over it. I will play somewhere else and play the same amount of rounds at that course with a member. Now if I play 30-40-50 rounds per year then I will do everything that I can to join.

In this case you can join HP for 6500$ over 10 years = 54$ a mount + 2700/year with taxes to play. That membership is paid after only 40 rounds at EC.

Mike

Or you can join The Marshes as a number of EC regulars are doing.
You will be playing on a Robert Trent Jones 2 designed course which many feel is on par with EC. Fantastic practice facility, and Par 3 course.
Use of Full graphic GPS carts included at No Extra charge. (CL members have to pay for carts)
Enjoyment of a fantastic 22,000 sf clubhouse

Platinum Unlimited Membership $3,995 @ 70 rounds = $57 per round
Gold "Off Peak" Membership $2,495 @ 70 rounds = $36 per round
http://www.brookstreethotel.com/golf/memberships.html

Usually the golfers who have negative comments about the Marshes are the ones who have attacked the course too agressively. You do this and it will "eat you up". It is truly a Trent Jones 2 course which requires a large amount of course management.
Can not be bad if Canadian Senior Tour has stopped there the past couple of years. Rumour that Canadian Tour will have a stop this year.
Also, as Terry Matthews has mentioned, once he gets the 2010 Ryder Cup completed at his Celtic Manor in Wales he will be able to switch more focus on the Brookstreet Resort and Marshes. He has made no secret that he would like to expand the Marshes by another 9 holes for a total of 27. Then go after the Canadian Open.

In my opinion, they are providing a great deal and understand with the large increase in 2007 membership, they will be providing a more "private" club atmosphere with skins games & events, while at the same time keeping it open to the Resort Guests and Public.

It certainly is a good option to joining CL. I guess a number of the EC regulars agree on this point..........

O'h and FYI, those who payed fully before this past X-Mas received 10% off their membership and two 100 level tickets to the Sens Capitals game last month.

[Section Thirty One]

So uh, is anyone else getting jumpy that there has been no official announcement today?

[mberube]

No not really. It’s going to take some time to figure out if they change the name, renovating or not, pricing…

My guess is that we will here from them at the meeting (25th Feb) first and then they will announce it publicly.

[Colby]

They might wait until after market close today also.

[stinger]

I don't think CL is in a rush to announce this. It's coming but they already had the countdown fiasco... so they want to do it right.

[3Jack]

It has been announced... http://clublink.ca/eaglecreekhome.html

Platinum level... $13,500 initiation...

[Ginker]

Very nice addition to the CL line-up.. There goes my fav. Ottawa course.

[dasnutz]

$3425 annual dues!

2007 GOLF SEASON
Eagle Creek will be operated as a semi-private Golf Club for the 2007 season. Tee times will be made available to all Eagle Creek Members, ClubLink Members, the general public, Corporate and Charitable Golf Events. Preferred access to tee times will be given to Eagle Creek Members during the high demand periods. The high demand periods vary by Club and are defined by the number of Eagle Creek Members and their playing patterns.

[Hacker]

It has been announced... http://clublink.ca/eaglecreekhome.html

Platinum level... $13,500 initiation...

$13,500 initiation
$3,425 annual dues
$475 x 2 food and beverage

I know that it is Platinum and it IS Eagle Creek but damn, I was hoping for more attractive incentives off the hop

[3Jack]

Agreeed.

I was hoping they'd intro it as Gold... but alas, no.

Plus, my wife plays and would want to join, so, in that case you slide down one initiation level each, so total would be 21,000 to get in (a bit over 2000 per year on their installment plan), plus:

• Principal/Corporate Member: $3,425
• Spousal Member: $2,895

plus, the food and bev.

I don't think I can swing it. Dang!

[Kilroy]

Well, this thread was about the speculation and that is over, so I guess we need a new thread.

Closed.