Maximum 14 Club Rule

[BC MIST]

(1) Made one mistake in passing my Level 2, RCGA Rules of Golf Certification exam. As I cannot find out which one it is, I am wondering if this is it.

True or False: "If a player begins play with more than 14 clubs, he is not penalized provided he declares one to be out of play before teeing off."

If the player has begun play, he has hit at least one shot, then the extra club would cost him 2 strokes on the first hole, and 2 on the second for a maximum penalty of 4 strokes. The answer then would be FALSE.

But the second part of the question refers to his making a declaration "before teeing off," and if he discovers an extra club "before teeing off" and declares it out of play, he would NOT be penalized. So the answer would be TRUE.

What am I missing here?

(2) If I declare an extra club out of play, say, on the second tee, am I allowed to have the club remain in my bag, providing I don't use it?

[Gary Hill]

... and if he discovers an extra club "before teeing off" and declares it out of play, he would NOT be penalized. So the answer would be TRUE.

How did you come to this conclusion?

[Started2k3]

(1) Made one mistake in passing my Level 2, RCGA Rules of Golf Certification exam. As I cannot find out which one it is, I am wondering if this is it.

True or False: "If a player begins play with more than 14 clubs, he is not penalized provided he declares one to be out of play before teeing off."

If the player has begun play, he has hit at least one shot, then the extra club would cost him 2 strokes on the first hole, and 2 on the second for a maximum penalty of 4 strokes. The answer then would be FALSE.

But the second part of the question refers to his making a declaration "before teeing off," and if he discovers an extra club "before teeing off" and declares it out of play, he would NOT be penalized. So the answer would be TRUE.

What am I missing here?

(2) If I declare an extra club out of play, say, on the second tee, am I allowed to have the club remain in my bag, providing I don't use it?

I would say the answer is TRUE, the player is not penalized. Based on Rule 4-4c, and that any penalties are attributed to the number of holes played before the infraction is realized. So 0 holes times 2 strokes per hole = 0 penalties.

EDIT - Actually I just read the Decision 4-4c/1 and it appears that there should be a penalty, but I haven't found out what it is.

[sensfan63]

It is a common misconception that you can declare a club "out of play" and keep it in your bag, even if it makes you go over the 14 club limit.

Don't know where it came from...but you can't do it...

[Gary Hill]

It is a common misconception that you can declare a club "out of play" and keep it in your bag, even if it makes you go over the 14 club limit.

Don't know where it came from...but you can't do it...

I disagree.

Which Rule states "you can't do it"?

[sensfan63]

I disagree.

Which Rule states "you can't do it"?

Alright...I digress...you are not banned from doing it...

But you are penalized...

[gbower]

This is what I found when going through the decisions on the USGA web site. I know there are some differences in the USGA and RCGA rules but this may help.

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Q. Before the start of a round, a player discovers that there are 15 clubs in his golf bag. He declares one of the clubs out of play, removes it from his bag, places it on the floor of his golf cart and begins the round. Is the player subject to penalty?

A. Yes, for starting the round with more than 14 clubs. Rule 4-4c has to do with declaring an excess club out of play on discovery of a breach after a round has started. There is nothing in the Rules to permit carrying, during a round, an excess club declared out of play before the round.

[Gary Hill]

I know there are some differences in the USGA and RCGA rules

Name one.

[BC MIST]

How did you come to this conclusion?

(1) I think I now see the true meaning of the statement, "If a player begins play with more than 14 clubs, he is not penalized provided he declares one to be out of play before teeing off."

The first part indicates that his round has started (begins play) and then talks about his doing something in the present tense (declares one or ones) when in fact, IMO, the word used should be "declared" because what he did "before teeing off" is now past. The obvious answer is FALSE, which I got correct so my mistake is on another question.

(2) "There is nothing in the Rules to permit carrying, during a round, an excess club declared out of play before a round." Fair enough. But what if I discover the extra club on #14? I add two strokes to my scores of #1, and #2 but what do I do with the club? I assume that it does not matter as I have already been penalized and cannot be penalized any more unless I use it, which would result in my being disqualified.

So, if I declare an extra club out of play before teeing off, I CANNOT keep the club in my bag, but if I declare it out of play on #14, I can keep it in my bag? Makes sense.

[Gary Hill]

Correct.

You cannot go the first teeing ground KNOWING you have 114 clubs in your bag and declare 100 of them out of play. (The player must abandon the excess before starting the round.)

However, if you DISCOVER that you have an excess of clubs on the 14th hole, you must declare the excess out of play and are allowed to carry the club.
(i.e. It would be foolish to expect the player to abandon the club in the middle of the course.)

Getting back to the original question:

If a player begins play with more than 14 clubs, he is not penalized provided ...........

There are NO circumstances under which the player will not be penalized for starting a round with more than 14 clubs.

Therefore, the answer is false no matter what follows provided.

[Started2k3]

Correct.

You cannot go the first teeing ground KNOWING you have 114 clubs in your bag and declare 100 of them out of play. (The player must abandon the excess before starting the round.)

However, if you DISCOVER that you have an excess of clubs on the 14th hole, you must declare the excess out of play and are allowed to carry the club.
(i.e. It would be foolish to expect the player to abandon the club in the middle of the course.)

Getting back to the original question:

If a player begins play with more than 14 clubs, he is not penalized provided ...........

There are NO circumstances under which the player will not be penalized for starting a round with more than 14 clubs.

Therefore, the answer is false no matter what follows provided.

What is the penalty, for this exact offense?

[gbower]

Name one.

I guess I assumed that since they are USGA and we are RCGA that there would be the odd differences but I guess from your reply that there are no differences.

[LobWedge]

You cannot go the first teeing ground KNOWING you have 114 clubs in your bag and declare 100 of them out of play.

Sounds like something Geoff would do.

[AAA]

I guess I assumed that since they are USGA and we are RCGA that there would be the odd differences but I guess from your reply that there are no differences.

The R&A and the USGA have the copyright on the Rules. The RCGA publish and manage them under licence in Canada. see the link below

http://www.rcga.org/english/Rules/rules.asp

In addition the USGA have some decisions only applicable in the USA.

[Kiwi battler]

Gary , please explain the penalty for a player who has started a round with 15clubs thinking he has correctly declared the15th club out of play before the round began

In strokeplay , and in matchplay where the opponent only found out the rules on say the 3rd tee

[Gary Hill]

Gary , please explain the penalty for a player who has started a round with 15clubs thinking he has correctly declared the15th club out of play before the round began

In strokeplay , and in matchplay where the opponent only found out the rules on say the 3rd tee

In stroke play, the player would incur a penalty of 4 strokes.

In match play, the state of the match would be adjusted by deducting 2 holes from the player.

(e.g. If the player lost both holes, the opponent would be 4 up after 2 holes.)

[Kiwi battler]

Thanks Gary

DQ for breaching 4.4c - happens if he uses any club declared out of play ....

or , if he does not declare any extra club out of play and continues after the breach of 4.4 is discovered ?