Course Conditions

[Colby]

Played Manderly today, pretty pricey at $33.00 taxes in. The fairways are pretty damp, and quite a few of them had standing water. Not much roll on shots, and a number of plugged balls. The greens were pretty good, but still inconsistant. Some were faster than others while others were quite a bit slower. No aeration holes though. A number of bunkers had water in them. Started at 1:00 and finished at 5:15, so happy with the time, but the cart girl quit at 3:30

[el tigre]

My golf season has always started the first or second weekend that courses start opening, and this year was no exception. I played Iroquois on Friday and Casselview today, and I have to say that IN GENERAL course conditions were the worst I have ever seen for April golf.

It's not the fault of the golf course owner. As Mr. Shank noted, this winter has obviously been very tough on course conditions, with the deep frost and VERY slow spring thaw. Compared to previous years at this time, I think ALL of the courses are in worse shape. But hey, it's April and you're golfing - everything else is gravy. You can't control the weather.

But you can control what you charge people to play. Frankly, it ticks me off when I hear people saying they were dinged $30+ for the kind of course conditions they were playing in.

At $18, Iroquois was worth the price. Casselview was worth the OGC price of $20, and I'm sure Cedar Glen was worth the $23 price. Even the 2-for-1 deal at Nation seems fair to me. But to charge full price or almost full price in April - especially THIS April - seems like highway robbery to me.

IMHO, if you want to charge full price then you should wait the course conditions are better - like Stonebridge, Meadows, etc. The snow is gone, but they're not open. If you open as soon is the snow is gone, then you should discount the price to make up for the poor course conditions. IMHO, Full price + April course conditions = price gouging.

[faldo]

Well said & pretty accurate.
BUT the bottom line is always there & they know there's tens of thousands of us drooling for any course to open!!!

Our bottom line is sharing this info & not returning!

[The Shtick]

I just got back from my first round of the year- played at Champlain. We were lucky (no rain while we played!).

Anyway, $37 for a green fee (they give you a coupon which is valid during weekdays only till May 10th).

Course was dry in certain places and the ball rolled pretty well. The greens, on the other hand, were terrible. Hop, skip, and bounce were the words of the day. Very patchy and inconsistant. A putt over 5 feet had absolutely NO CHANCE of going in.

It took us (a threesome) just under 4 hours to play so at least the pace was good. Mind you, it is an ugly day outside and the course was pretty empty except for all the groups in front of us.

I don't think the course was worth the $37..... Even with the pass they gave me, the greens won't be better anytime soon.

I can't wait to play Cascades next Saturday though, the course looks great and I will be there on opening day!

[Clutch]

It's 99 % dry now.. even getting roll. The only fairway that was a bit damp was #17 near the 150 yrd marker.. #13 fairway is green... These are great conditions for this time of year!

[em69]

It's been a long time since Champlain could say their course was in good shape. I really used to like playing there many years ago.

$37 is very steep for that course even if it was in good shape. That's enough to keep me away another year.

[golfdoc]

Played Emerald Links yesterday. The greens are in great shape for this time of year. I was very surprsied.

The fairways are far from green but they are already dry so you can definitely play off them and even take a divot.

They are charging full price, which was $48 on a holiday.

From what I have been reading above, I could never justify $37 at a place like Champlain.

Some of these courses are getting a little high priced for the quality.

[The Shtick]

I hear ya em69....

I'll go back and use the coupon that I got (weather permitting). They'll make money off me if they decide to put a beer cart on the course and that's it.

Other than that, I won't go back.

[Martin1963]

We played Casselview on Saturday. The Tee boxes were a little rough, but overall the conditions on both the fairways and greens were very reasonable for this time of year.

[LionsRoar]

Played Emerald Links on Monday (South and West) and didn't get too wet, the greens were very good, especially the new South course. Not very Emerald colour for the most part, but relatively dry in most places. Sticking it on the greens wasn't very hard, but putting took a lot of oomph, they were particularly slow, though that is to be expected this time of year.

Price wise, $45, I thought it was too expensive for this time of year and frankly the price seems to be getting a little high at the course even for perfect conditions. Still it's a very enjoyable course and if we were in Toronto we'd be paying a lot more to play it.

Thank goodness we live here in Ottawa where there are a number of good reasonably priced courses to frequent.

Happy golfing.

[fireice]

Rideau Glen
Played Rideau Glen today. I got there shortly after 4pm. The guy in the shop was just about to leave for the day I guess they decided to open Friday and it wasn't too busy so he was leaving. There were a few people still on the course at the time. So I paid my $15 and went out. Conditions were pretty poor to say the least and they should probably wait a little while longer although some holes were starting to dry out. It was fun regardless of the conditions or lack thereof and I got to try my new Adams Tight Lies ST 3 Driver which seems to go pretty straight and about 240-250. Sweet

[GarthM]

Played Meadows today, North/West. Fairways are a little soggy in places but overall fairly dry. (only took relief once all day) Greens were amazing for this time of year. A little slow but very smooth and true.

Well worth the $29. Rumour has it the other 2 nines will be open for next weekend.

Looks like the Meadows will be in great shape again this year!

GarthM

[The Shtick]

I played Mont Cascades on Saturday. Surprisingly, the course was bone dry and the greens were, well, GREEN! I've been there for 14 years now and I'd say that the conditions on the weekend were much like June golf.... I was really surprised!

I know where I'll be spending next weekend now.

[pingzzing]

It doesn't matter what price you pay nor what the weather is like, the course is a long way from being in good shape even in the middle of the summer. The OVGA Mid-Amateur was held there last summer and the conditions were so bad that we were allowed to lift and place the ball in both the fairways and rough. On some fairways, especially the front-nine, you would be hard pressed to find grass. That course is not good value for the money at all.

[Christian]

Pingzing,

I must admit that you are in the rare minority with your opinion of Greensmere (which has some of the nicer greens of any course in the city). This was a comment that was often heard following last year's mid-amateur.

Can you point me to a course in the Ottawa area (other than Eagle Creek - seen it already) which currently has mid-season conditions? Can you also show me one that had better conditions last year after only one year of growth (2001 and 2002 being unusually dry)?

I must admit that I have never heard Greensmere mentioned as a cow pasture (another of your postings) But I should not be surprised following your statement that there is no grass to be found on the front nine. Obviously, you had a hard time finding fairways (since they have about 95% coverage of bent grass).

Do people not remember the long cold winter we just had? The fact that frost is still coming out of the ground? The fact that bent always takes much longer to green than other grasses (such as Poa)?

I suspect that the course is probably in better condition than your game.

Anyway, the majority of us will keep enjoying this work in progress!!

[pingzzing]

Naturally, no course is in good shape this spring. I'll admit the greens at Greensmere were nice. However, my intent was to say that Greensmere does not have good conditioned fairways at any time and, as such, is not good value for the rather inflated prices they charge for memberships - no driving range, club storage, lockers - all features a member would expect to enjoy. In fact, on the day of the mid-amateur there wasn't even a putting green. Not very impressive no matter what level or shape your game is.

I see there is an OVGA "A" Class event there this summer and it will be interesting to see what the "big boys" think of it.

[natgolfer]

pingzzing,

Greensmere is starting only its second full year of operation and unfortunately, unlike The Marshes and Stonebridge, it did not have a $25,000,000 or a $15,000,000 buget respectively, but rather one that was approximately $1,500,000. For that amount it produced a more than enjoyable back nine, and an ordinary front nine.

You obviously play at an established course, otherwise you would have some understanding that it takes a few years for a low budget course to mature enough to be good enough for your lofty standards. The truth also is that Greensmere has not had any season conducive to good growth. It has been either too hot/dry or too wet. With proper weather the rough would have filled in and the fairways would be 98% instead of 95%. Most rounds I played there rounds there last year I did not have to prefer my lie and from August on the greens were as good as other courses I played in '02( EC The Marshes, Hunt, Stonebridge).

Allowing players to move the ball one club length in the Mid Amateur seemed unusual, however, they do it on the PGA and LPGA tours when conditions warrant it, so that having the opportunity to move the ball made it fair for everyone. You must also understand that the OVGA is having difficulty finding courses on which to play their tournaments so courses that are not quite ready for "big time" tournaments like the Mid-Amateur competition, need to be chosen.

Another fundamental of the game of golf is to accept and play the course as you find it. Your comment about not being able to find grass on the fairways of the front nine is an outright lie. Perhaps there was little grass where you were, but the fairways were were 95% acceptable.

Having a driving range, club house, lockers, etc., is part of the 5 year plan. The driving range has been built, the fairway part seeded and the teeing area which is 35 yards wide and 150 long may be playable by mid to late summer. The range itself will be 320 yards deep with a bent grass fairway up the middle. Can you name a club besides perhaps Camelot, where the practice facility is that size?

Have fun at this year's Mid Amateur at Mont Ste. Marie where you will be putting on greens that run about 5 on the Stimp. Whether or not I am allowed to move the ball a club length at this years "A" City and District at Greensmere in not important to me, however, I know that I will be able to finish my game by being able to putt on good greens. Last year we played at Arnprior and Renfrew for the first two rounds and it was so nice to get back on to Greensmere's greens.

"There are golfers and people who play golf."

[Gofish2]

As of 2:00 this afternoon the course is in pitiful condition. Half the greens were being worked on and they pulled the pin and stuck it out in the fairway. The greens that we were allowed on were bumpy and a putt from more than 3 feet needed more luck than skill. They are still giving away a free game ( except if you book through Ottawagolf ). Way overpriced for a mediocre course.:bablefish

[Kilroy]

It snowed 7 days ago.

It still amazes me that people expect conditions to be great so early. There are several courses that have temporary greens, and some that are not even open yet. Getting a free game as compensation for the temps seems very good to me. In earlier posts complaints were that the prices should be reduced for this very reason. Gee you guys are hard to please.

They are still giving away a free game ( except if you book through Ottawagolf ).

Booking through our public booking system has no bearing on this. Anyone can use it for free, just like using the phone.
OttawaGolf Club bookings are already reduced to half price. We do not set course policies, and we do not get discounts for conditions (just like any member at any club).

[Gofish2]

It feels so good to have an actual course to * about. Golfers are very much like farmers. It is either too hot or too cold, too wet or too dry. We are afraid that if we act too happy then God is going to punish us so we have to pretend that we are miserable. Thanks, Dan, for putting things in perspective.:bablefish

[Kilroy]

Thanks for listening.

[NoBack]

Ever wonder what golfers in Calgary are thinking??????
My guess would be they would play on ANY greens and in ANY conditions at this point.

Just enjoy the golf. As for overpriced courses at this time of year, dont play them until they are in good conditions. Your $$$ = your choice of courses.

Btw.....Meadows is in great condition for this time of year with green greens that actually roll (albeit a little slow).

[fireice]

"Your $$$ = your choice of courses."
I can't agree more with this sentiment
We are so very lucky.
I think I'm going to play the 9 at Raceview tomorrow for the first time.
Passed by Manderley yesterday things are starting to turn quite green. All this nice weather we've been getting.

[el tigre]

Just enjoy the golf. As for overpriced courses at this time of year, dont play them until they are in good conditions. Your $$$ = your choice of courses.

I couldn't agree more. As a rule, I don't play courses that charge full price in April, because the courses will not be in mid-season form unless we had a very mild and short winter. I played Iroquois on Saturday. Fairways were bad but greens were good, but who cares - it's April golf! At $18, it was well worth the price.

Getting a free game as compensation for the temps seems very good to me. In earlier posts complaints were that the prices should be reduced for this very reason. Gee you guys are hard to please.

IMHO, reduced rates for sub-par course conditions (which are to be expected at this time of year), are appropriate. A 2-for-1 deal is just a good - it's just another variation on reducing rates. I wouldn't expect a course to do BOTH - they would be losing too much money.

But I also think it is fair to criticize courses that open early but DO NOTHING to recognize the sub-par course conditions in April and charge full price. Why do some courses like EC cost twice as much as others? COURSE CONDITIONS - plain and simple. That's what you're paying for.

As Dan pointed out, it snowed a week ago. Courses are not going to be in great shape. I know it, most golfers should know it, and most golf course owners shouod know it too.

In April, you would be hard-pressed to find a course in Ottawa where you would pay close to $40 for a round and say you got your money's worth. For those owners who insist on charging full price, I let my $$$ to the talking - I spend it elsewhere.

[NoBack]

Maybe I've been lucky so far this year, but I played Manderley for the first time this year and its looking AND playing real nice for this time of year. Greens were mostly green but again very puttable. Fairways were "damp" in some areas but also green. Not quite as nice as Meadows was on Monday but then again very nice for the end of april and only a week from being under snow.

[GarthM]

Played Stonebridge today. It's in great shape, period. Fairways are all very green and I only found one wet spot on #1 West. Despite the aeration marks left over from last fall, the greens are running smooth and quite true.

In fact I shot my best round ever at Stonebridge -- 77 with only 24 putts!

Overall a thumbs up!

GarthM

[Kilroy]

Great round Garth. Congrats.

[natgolfer]

GarthM,

If anyone can have only 24 putts on the * designed greens in the world, you ought to try for your Tour card in the fall.

Of course, 12 under on the greens, but 5 over for the round means that you did not hit many greens in regulation.

Maybe you should wait another year to get your card.

[mr shank]

Originally posted by pingzzing
Naturally, no course is in good shape this spring. I'll admit the greens at Greensmere were nice. However, my intent was to say that Greensmere does not have good conditioned fairways at any time and, as such, is not good value for the rather inflated prices they charge for memberships - no driving range, club storage, lockers - all features a member would expect to enjoy. In fact, on the day of the mid-amateur there wasn't even a putting green. Not very impressive no matter what level or shape your game is.

I see there is an OVGA "A" Class event there this summer and it will be interesting to see what the "big boys" think of it.

- as you now know pingzzing, Greensmere is vehemently defended on this site as one of the best value & designs in the area.

The only thing I can deduce from that is:
many who post here have paid for memberships ( or even lifetime memberships) and don't want to hear a bad word about the large investment they have made, but would rather foam about what a great place it is so they can feel good about their investement.

There are much worse values than Greensmere around, but there are also some better.

When Greensmere opened, I was told it was a "must play" - it just isn't.

[Deep red]

This course is in great shape. The greens play well and the fairways are all dry. In fact there are several areas that are almost too dry. All though I will take all the roll I can get. It is a bit of a drive from Ottawa but well worth it IMHO.