Do golf courses in the Ottawa area make money?

["Richard"]

Well, winter is here and golf is done. The courses have no money coming in until april now. Do the courses in ottawa make money? If so, how much do they make?? I've always wondered how much the owner of a golf course makes per year. I hear they pay a lot of their employees in green fees (makes sense) so no cash lost there unless they take a time that someone else was going to take and they are completely booked. How much are golf courses worth??? Lets use the canadian or Loch march as an example, how much are these courses worth? Are they usually fully owned or heavily morgaged? So many questions

[BullDog]

Do most courses not continue collecting membership dues and trying to sign up new members between now and "opening day"? While the golf course operations part of the business is largely put up on blocks at this time of year, much continues to go on behind the scenes.

My two cents based on observations made over the years...

[covanant]

Alot of places do weddings and stuff like that as well.
Some have sims and offer lessons etc..

[jvincent]

Well, winter is here and golf is done. The courses have no money coming in until april now. Do the courses in ottawa make money? If so, how much do they make??

Dude, you're in finance aren't you. Certainly you must have heard of these things called "budgets".

Assuming a course can take enough money during the summer season and they manage their cash flow properly there is no reason why they can't pay their non-seasonal staff and operating expenses during the off season.

[em69]

The courses have no money coming in until april now.

Nothing is further from the truth.

Keep in mind as well....their expenses probably have been reduced by 3/4 during the winter months. So, smaller cash flow in winter but less expenses.

[4jag]

I'm no expert in the field but it seems that tournament courses like Meadows and Manderley are cash cows. Several times a week from May thru Sept. (often more then once per day) their courses are instantly jammed with scores of tourney golfers - they collect greenfees, cart fees, food and bar cash plus whatever they sell in the pro shop. This cash is on top of whatever membership dues, greenfee packages etc. they have sold.

IMO, strictly private courses are a dying breed. I think we'll see more reciprocal playing agreements between private courses (Camelot - Rivermead?) and more merging of courses a la the Clublink model.

[Shivas Irons]

Dude, you're in finance aren't you. Certainly you must have heard of these things called "budgets".

For Richard it's just one more thing to blow.

[Started2k3]

I'm no expert in the field but it seems that tournament courses like Meadows and Manderley are cash cows. Several times a week from May thru Sept. (often more then once per day) their courses are instantly jammed with scores of tourney golfers - they collect greenfees, cart fees, food and bar cash plus whatever they sell in the pro shop. This cash is on top of whatever membership dues, greenfee packages etc. they have sold.

IMO, strictly private courses are a dying breed. I think we'll see more reciprocal playing agreements between private courses (Camelot - Rivermead?) and more merging of courses a la the Clublink model.

Just remember that "tournament courses" can't have it both ways - too many tournaments --> lose members. But who knows it may be worth it.

I, for one, found that I could not get on the course after work at Manderley this year because there were tournaments always on. So I won't be returning. (I am not bitter I am just stating fact.)

[Kilroy]

Many owners / managers work long hours 7 days a week during golf season. Some of them take what's known as a "Vacation".

[4jag]

I, for one, found that I could not get on the course after work at Manderley this year because there were tournaments always on. So I won't be returning. (I am not bitter I am just stating fact.)

Even with 27 holes?

[Shivas Irons]

I, for one, found that I could not get on the course after work at Manderley this year because there were tournaments always on. So I won't be returning. (I am not bitter I am just stating fact.)

If you like the layout maybe give Pakenham a try. I'm a member there and this summer there wasn't even one single time this year when I wasn't able to play due to a tournament. Same price range as Manderley as well.

["Richard"]

yes I am a numbers guy and the reason I asked this question was after I saw a post about a golf club being for sale at 10m

Lets say the owner bought it for 7 mil 2 years ago, with a 60% morgage (4.2m borrowed). That would mean about 25k a month at around 5.5% to 6%

That is a total of $300,000 a year in morgage payments not to mention salaries and supplies. If they charge $1500 a membership, they would need 200 members to cover the morgage cost. Now they need to pay their employees and all other costs involved. Maybe my question should have been... how much money do they make???

Maybe the owners are so rich that they don't have morgages... I don't know

[Started2k3]

Even with 27 holes?

I would check RM and see no spots available. I would call to see if they could may be sneek in a single - always the same response "no spots available". So after a while I just stopped phoning, but check RM and like always no luck.

If you like the layout maybe give Pakenham a try. I'm a member there and this summer there wasn't even one single time this year when I wasn't able to play due to a tournament. Same price range as Manderley as well.

I had hoped to play a lot this year, mainly after work, but I only got in 10-15 rounds this year and only one of those was after work. Certainly not worth it. So I will go back to green fee, until I can get out enough to make it worth it. Thanks for the suggestion.

[up&down]

I'm not sure the situation of all private clubs..But the rivermead has been on a decent sized budget the last few years and have barely walked away with $100,000 in profit after all expenses last year (taxes, food, pro shop, staff, hydro....) If it weren't for a property value of 15 million dollars, they wouldn't have lasted long as a private club. The past few years they have been allowing more public charity tournament to offset there losses