Measuring devices allowed by GAO

[jvincent]

Just received the following email from the GAO. I wouldn't be surprised to see other regional associations do the same.

At a joint meeting of the GAO Tournament and Rules Committees, the use of Distance Measuring Devices was approved for use at all GAO Championships and Qualifying Rounds in 2007. Electronic Measuring Devices measuring distance only will be allowed. The use of a device that gauges or measures other conditions that might affect play such as wind-speed, temperature or gradient are not permitted.

The following Local Rule will be in place at all GAO Championships and Qualifying Rounds in 2007:

Distance-Measuring Devices
"A player may obtain distance information by using a device that measures distance only. However, if, during a stipulated round, a player uses a distance-measuring device that is designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affect his play (e.g., gradient, wind-speed, temperature, etc.), the player is in breach of Rule 14-3, for which the penalty is disqualification, regardless of whether any such additional functions are actually used."

[Kilroy]

I think that's great news!

[LobWedge]

Not one to "stand in the way of progress" but, I still think that they diminish the skill required to play the game...

That being said, here's some interesting questions.

Let's say that a competitor arrives at the 1st tee to start his round. Prior to playing his opening tee shot, he uses an electronic distance measuring device that is also "designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affect his play", even though he only uses the device to measure the distance to some landmark, is he disqualified then and there for using the illegal device even though he hasn't actually played a stroke yet? What if he takes his measurement, plays his stroke, then realizes his error, is he disqualified then?

Rule 14-3 specifies "during a stipulated round". What constitutes the start of the stipulated round? Is it the player's opening stroke, or is it the act of taking the measurement prior to playing the opening stroke? The definition doesn't specify.

[1972Apex]

I think that's great news!

I'm with you Dan... and I don't even use one...

[Farzin]

Not one to "stand in the way of progress" but, I still think that they diminish the skill required to play the game...

What does knowing the distance has to do with diminishing the skills of shot making?. I always thought knowing the distance is the first essential of making a skilled shot. GAO

[AAA]

The player's round starts when he makes a stroke at the ball.

[Kilroy]

Not one to "stand in the way of progress" but, I still think that they diminish the skill required to play the game...

Hogwash. It's just accurate yardages.

With the GAO accepting them, the QGA will follow suit, and that will be that as far as competitive golf in Ontario and Quebec are concerned.
Except for a few stubborn local tours that is

[NoBack]

Dan, for the record, it was a close vote in our end of year member's survey.

16-12 against using them.

Mind you thats not the total # of members but those who wanted their opinions heard made the choice.

[Kilroy]

As we have discussed, such a vote would be skewed by those who do not have one, and don't wish to spend the money. They'll vote against it believing that allowing others to have them would put them at a disadvantage. Some (not all) of them would vote "yes" if rangefinders were free.

That being said, it would be best if all players (who would use them) had them.

[gbower]

I don't understand where the huge advantage to having a rangefinder is other than giving me a more accurate distance to the flag or hazards. I've been using one for a couple of years now and find that one thing it does do is speed up my game as I don't have to pace off distances. It sure doesn't make the shot for me. I know the OVGA doesn't allow them in their tournaments and the main reason is it will slow down play. Well they can't slow it down any more than it is now. I've seen some people using them for 20yd shots which just isn't right but giving me a distance to the flag or a certain tree is just helpful info that the pros already have or if the course sells a yardage book anyone can get. The way the rules are now you are also allowed to give a distance to someone else in your group and I was doing this and speeding up play last week once the other guys knew I had my rangefinder with me.

[NoBack]

One comment, without rehashing all the debate over this issue. My point is that if 2 players are of the same handicap - say both are 8 handicappers. Now give only one of them a rangefinder and see who plays better.

gbower .................... "

other than giving me a more accurate distance to the flag or hazards"

IS THIS NOT an advantage???

[1972Apex]

One comment, without rehashing all the debate over this issue. My point is that if 2 players are of the same handicap - say both are 8 handicappers. Now give only one of them a rangefinder and see who plays better.

gbower .................... " IS THIS NOT an advantage???

Hey, you and I are about the same handicap... how about we play for money and I let you use a rangefinder?

[jvincent]

My point is that if 2 players are of the same handicap - say both are 8 handicappers. Now give only one of them a rangefinder and see who plays better.

Change "rangefinder" to "caddie" and you get the same thing.

Some people can afford caddies or have friends/family who can caddie and others don't. Should we disallow caddies for that reason?

[gbower]

"IS THIS NOT an advantage???"

I could always do like the pros and pace the distance off. I've played with guys that will sometimes do this. I also regularly play with a guy that has excellent visual distance reference so he is at equal with me. If I have a yardage book it will give me the distances to the hazards or bunkers from different yardages so all you have to do is pace them off (time, time and more time) Rounds are slow enough now.
You still have to make the shot as the rangefinder doesn't help my swing and make me play better.

[NoBack]

Hey, you and I are about the same handicap... how about we play for money and I let you use a rangefinder?

I'll play you for money but I wont be using one of those things any day soon.

[NoBack]

"IS THIS NOT an advantage???"

I could always do like the pros and pace the distance off. I've played with guys that will sometimes do this. I also regularly play with a guy that has excellent visual distance reference so he is at equal with me. If I have a yardage book it will give me the distances to the hazards or bunkers from different yardages so all you have to do is pace them off (time, time and more time) Rounds are slow enough now.
You still have to make the shot as the rangefinder doesn't help my swing and make me play better.

I Agree with you 110% about making the shots.
But, what I am saying and you agree without agreeing because you like them, that they help you with the hazard distance, over the bunker distance, etc which = advantage ....

[1972Apex]

I'll play you for money but I wont be using one of those things any day soon.

LOL! Just teasing you . I know you would never use one.
That was just my way of saying, 'no' I don't think rangefinders provide any advantage whatsoever...
I also think your bias against them has far more to do with the fact that you do not like them rather than any perceived advantage they may give

[dreaded_snowman]

Interesting debate. I am one of those few who carry a rangefinder. Interestingly, I don't find it's on the long shots that it really makes the difference. Off the tee, it can be nice to know how far a trap is, to be sure. Between 250 and 70 it's usually pretty easy to gauge the distance using the fairway markers, +/- a few yards.

Where I find it really makes a difference is on my short game, from 70 yards in. Yes, I even use it at 12 or 15 yards. To chip well, I need to know exactly how many yards it is to the pin... I used to pace these off, and that was definitely slower than using my rangefinder (which I pull out as I'm approaching the ball, a quick snap and I'm done...) My accuracy on chips has gone up a lot since I started using it.... chipped in about 15 times this year, and lots of gimme 1 putts.

As far as advantage goes, I'm not that good, so noone really cares... but if I play with another person in my handicap range, it's definitely an advantage - it increases my confidence to know the distance, especially with back and front pins.

Just my 2 cents...

[NoBack]

but if I play with another person in my handicap range, it's definitely an advantage - it increases my confidence to know the distance, especially with back and front pins.

Just my 2 cents...

Exactly my point. thanks you for being honest.

I also think your bias against them has far more to do with the fact that you do not like them rather than any perceived advantage they may give

Maybe, but at $300, I'm not going to find out either. Been playing this game for 30 years and use the markers or the yardage books supplied by some courses. It's Old School for me

[AAA]

I thought this topic had been done to death twelve months ago just before the new decision was announced.

It raged for about three months

[jeffc]

There are times on a course when it would come in handy - for instance, being on another fairway or when you look at a pin and visually think that the distance is off based on what is marked on the course.

Also, there are times when it is nice to know how far it is exactly to the pin since most courses are marked to the middle of the green.

I don't think for the average shot it would be useful to me as I am a pretty good judge of distance and have decent distance control on my irons.

I do think there is an advantage to having one for these shots and this can speed up play in some instances. There are certain holes (eg. par 3's at Le Sorcier) you just can't pace off (without breaking something).

[1972Apex]

Exactly my point. thanks you for being honest.

Maybe, but at $300, I'm not going to find out either. Been playing this game for 30 years and use the markers or the yardage books supplied by some courses. It's Old School for me

Opposing viewpoint. I owned one for two months this summer. My average scores went up and my handicap actually increased by two points. I found it made me rely much more on club selection for the distance rather than using knockdowns and different clubs to go the same distances. I am much more of a feel player.

[Kilroy]

I see no reason why yardage information should be unavailable to those who want it.
Some don't want one and play better without it. A "feel player" may think it's unreliable or cursed since it always makes them question thier estimates. It's probably best that they not use one.

That is fine. Those of us who use them & love them have the confidence that knowing the real yardages and shots that can be repeated will work. It is getting to be a stale argument, the pros have caddies yada yada yada.

I have a gps I use for every round at my home course and I know the course well, but I still use it. I use a rangefinder for "away" courses.

EMD is an "Electronic Measuring Device"

Here's a thought, read it through...

• My handicap is based on my play while using EMD's
• Yes I'd be at a disadvantage without my EMD's
• If you never use an EMD and your 'cap is based on guessing yardages, how do I have an advantage using an EMD in a handicapped match?
• Is it fair to deny me my EMD?

Opinions?

[jeffc]

Personally, I don't care if someone I am playing against uses one.

There are times when I would like to know the distance if something seems "off" or if I am unfamiliar with a course. I don't think that would justify me buying one since I also like to carry my clubs and I don't want the extra weight. That and pulling the thing out all the time would grate on me.

Here's a question: Is it against the rules for me to use Dan's (provided he will let me) if I am playing against him? Is it against the rules if I use someone else's period?

[Kilroy]

Yardage information is not prohibited in the rules. It used to be that you could only ask for yardages from known points, but now with the rangefinder revolution there has been a revision that allows for sharing of any yardage info

Just ask!

[jvincent]

Here's a question: Is it against the rules for me to use Dan's (provided he will let me) if I am playing against him? Is it against the rules if I use someone else's period?

I know that it is not against the rules to get a distance from a FC who is using a range finder. Distances are "matters of fact" according to the rules and as such can be given. What can't be given is guidance as to what club to hit for said distance.

I'm not sure if they specifically allowed or disallowed using somebody elses rangefinder. Since it's not a club, I can't see why not though. In a certain sense it would be the same as borrowing a towel or a tee.

[Farzin]

Take away the yardage book from the pros. throw away the technology,
Take a hybrid, use it off the tee , use it for chipping and use it for putting, it can be done, why 14 clubs. Same should apply to the cars. The gas gauge , speedometer and odometer are not necessary if one can feel how much gas is used, what speed he is driving at, and how many Kms driven. This game is all about feeling. felling hot hot hot. I’m hot — You’re hot — He’s hot — She’s hot.
how you feeling? hot hot hot. how you feeling? hot hot hot.
ole ole ole ole
ole ole ole ole
what's your score? triple hot.

Have been playing by feel for over 30 years and not going to measure it ever. 'in bed'.
IMO.

[LobWedge]

The player's round starts when he makes a stroke at the ball.

Where does it say that?

[1972Apex]

OK here's a thought, read it through...

• In Golf an EMD is an "Electronic Measuring Device"
• My handicap is based on my play while using EMD's
• Yes I'd be at a disadvantage without my EMD's
• If you never use an EMD and your 'cap is based on guessing yardages, how do I have an advantage using an EMD in a handicapped match?
• Is it fair to deny me my EMD?

Opinions?

You got if Big Guy! The only way it would be an advantage would be if a guy like you DID NOT use his rangefinder during handicapped rounds and then pulled it out during a tournament.

[Kilroy]

Pro Caddies often go out before the round and measure with everything available to create the yardage books. Why would you have an issue with measuring stuff with an EMD minutes (or hours or days) prior to teeing off in a competition where they were prohibited?