Tipping Advice for Mercury Kevlar Pro

[SMT-Boy]

I have a Mercury Kelvar Pro on its way in stiff flex and I would like to tip it a bit to make it a bit closer to an X stiff. I tried a Savage and found it just a bit soft (its in a SMT 02 with a 2" bore...effectivley tipped a half inch), yet it was straight, long and most importantly low spinning. I typically play x shafts (Graman 540 or V2) which I can load and hit fine but my tempo is better with a softer shaft. Any ideas on how much I should tip this shaft to make it play as a soft X/very stiff stiff? It will be going in a Bridgestone J33R 8.5 head (1.5" bore). Any imput would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Weirfan]

contrary to popular beleif it is not the hosel depth/insertion that impacts upon shaft stiffness but the BBGM ( Bottom of Bore to Ground Measurement)

The Pro kev and Savage have similar ss ratings for the stiff flex that is around 105 , if memeory serves me, however the Savage plays a bit softer IMO.

The BBGM on the J33R head is 2 inches, so when you install this 45 inch shaft you will need to trim 2 inches from the butt to get 45 inch driver...in a normal head with a BBGM of 1 inch, just one inch to butt trim.....and the butt is the stiffest part of the shaft..

so, shafts will typically play softer in the head with a larger BBGM

This is a bit of a tough call, Normally I would say trim the shaft an inch....but this head is low spin and low launch and at an 8.5 * and with the launch of the Pro Kev, I am a bit concerned that trimming it might lower the trajectory too much, if it already is not.

what is your swing speed?

I am a high ball hitter with a 110+ ss and use this head in a 10.5* with an Accra T70 M4 tipped an inch,a nd get a good traj. I had a 9.5* in this head and tried a few shafts and it was a low hitter.

[Weirfan]

also weigh the head, I have found these heads to be a bit on the heavy side.

you might want to leave the shaft untipped and longer then cut it down after a try...more work I know

[SMT-Boy]

contrary to popular beleif it is not the hosel depth/insertion that impacts upon shaft stiffness but the BBGM ( Bottom of Bore to Ground Measurement)

The Pro kev and Savage have similar ss ratings for the stiff flex that is around 105 , if memeory serves me, however the Savage plays a bit softer IMO.

The BBGM on the J33R head is 2 inches, so when you install this 45 inch shaft you will need to trim 2 inches from the butt to get 45 inch driver...in a normal head with a BBGM of 1 inch, just one inch to butt trim.....and the butt is the stiffest part of the shaft..

so, shafts will typically play softer in the head with a larger BBGM

This is a bit of a tough call, Normally I would say trim the shaft an inch....but this head is low spin and low launch and at an 8.5 * and with the launch of the Pro Kev, I am a bit concerned that trimming it might lower the trajectory too much, if it already is not.

what is your swing speed?

I am a high ball hitter with a 110+ ss and use this head in a 10.5* with an Accra T70 M4 tipped an inch,a nd get a good traj. I had a 9.5* in this head and tried a few shafts and it was a low hitter.

I hit the ball very high as well with too much spin. My clubhead speed is mid 120's...crept into the 130's this summer a couple of times. I am not an aggressive swinger though so I can most any shaft straight. Currently the shaft in the J33R is a 75X NV which I hate; however it launches fine it is just extremely inconsistent. The head I have is the 420cc one..is the BBGM 2 inches for that one? I also generally play a 44" driver.

I am only looking to tip it a bit, I could like with the performance characteristics of the Savage as I hit it really straight and on a high but acceptable trajectory as the spin was low...may not need to do anything to to the Kevlar? I have heard the Kevlar is tighter with a lower launch than the Savage...would you guys agree? Maybe it will be perfect as is.

[Weirfan]

420cc is 2 inch BBGM as well

120 -130 ss wow!!!!!!!

I think that you can likely trim it an inch then without too much concern. I had one tipped an inch in a 9* Agressive AG400 head and it was just a tad stiff for me.

The NV are quite receptive to tipping so you could tipp the 75 X....but then it woukd be too short I suspect

[Chieflongtee]

+/- 0.25" Hosel Depth = 2 CPM. +/- 2 Grams Head wt. = 1 CPM.

[Chieflongtee]

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[Weirfan]

+/- 0.25" Hosel Depth = 2 CPM. +/- 2 Grams Head wt. = 1 CPM.

I realize that this is what is generally considered the Rule.....RP I beleive states this, however do not agree......this has been discussed at length on another forum.

Tim Hewitt...ala MyOstrich apparently has done extensive testing on this and is quite adament about the fact that it is the BBGM and not the hosel insertion depth that impacts on how a shaft plays......I have not done as near as much data collection on this as Tim but in the small amount I have with my FA.....my findings also substatiate this.

That is it really does not matter how much shaft tip is in the hosel, but how far that shaft tip is from the ground line.

Obviously it can vary depending on the shaft but because the butt section of most shafts is the stiffest part, the more of that section left on a shaft the stiffer it will freq at.

Where I have found that a shaft plays or feels stiffer in a deeper hosel is when there is minimal PTS say 2 inches and the hosel depth is say 2.5....becuase the active part of the shaft is more burried so less feel....this however, does not impact upon butt freq readings but feel.

[Chieflongtee]

Of course BBGM makes more sense. The less you tip trim the more butt section you will have left when cutting to final length.But hosel depth insertion does play a role imo. Try this little experiment if you have a tip weight. Fully insert it and you'll get a certain reading. Slide it out a bit and the frequency will drop.

[LobWedge]

I have a Mercury Kelvar Pro on its way in stiff flex and I would like to tip it a bit to make it a bit closer to an X stiff. I tried a Savage and found it just a bit soft (its in a SMT 02 with a 2" bore...effectivley tipped a half inch), yet it was straight, long and most importantly low spinning. I typically play x shafts (Graman 540 or V2) which I can load and hit fine but my tempo is better with a softer shaft. Any ideas on how much I should tip this shaft to make it play as a soft X/very stiff stiff? It will be going in a Bridgestone J33R 8.5 head (1.5" bore). Any imput would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

What is the raw cpm listed on the shaft? It should be listed on an oval sticker near the butt end.

[Weirfan]

Of course BBGM makes more sense. The less you tip trim the more butt section you will have left when cutting to final length.But hosel depth insertion does play a role imo. Try this little experiment if you have a tip weight. Fully insert it and you'll get a certain reading. Slide it out a bit and the frequency will drop.

Chief,

I am new here and do not want to get in a big debate on this...you have been around a long time seems and obviously have significant knowledge ....

However, we are talking butt frequency here....if the beam length is the same and the weight of the head the same and the BBGM the same it does not at all how long the hosel extends up the shaft....you are still twanging the same weight at the end of the same beam length .....Butt frequency will not be different.

I did your experiment with a 205 gram chuck as well as two 5 iron heads with same BBGM and made sure the weight was the same, but one hade 1/4 inch longer hosel.

with the chuck...of course if you slide it off a 1/2 inch you will get a softer reading as you have increased the distance the weight is from the butt...ie: increased the beam length....if you adjust the clamp to keep the same beam length the frequency stay the same....irregardless .

with the iron heads it is the same result...same freq despite a 1/4 longer hosel

[Chieflongtee]

We won't be getting into a big debate. I enjoy reading your takes here and on freegolfinfo. And I sure hope you stick around. You are right. The beam length is a bit longer if I slide the tip weight down. Now if I have 2 driver heads of the same weight but one has an extra long hosel(i.e Ashton) or a bore through head(i.e titleist) and the other one has a short hosel (i.e Callaway) won't that affect the frequency? By the way I got the reference from the Kona website.

http://konagolfsales.com/specsandtrim.htm

[SMT-Boy]

What is the raw cpm listed on the shaft? It should be listed on an oval sticker near the butt end.

I am still waiting for the shaft to arrive...I will post the CPM when it does. On my Savage it was 239 and that is a bit soft...

[Chieflongtee]

I am still waiting for the shaft to arrive...I will post the CPM when it does. On my Savage it was 239 and that is a bit soft...

239 was the soft stiff. See for yourself

http://konagolfsales.com/specsandtri...aphite%20woods

[Weirfan]

Depends on the Cally 454 is bore thru...FT3 has a BBGM of .55 inch

stiffness will be most to least

Titleist = BBGM = 0
Cally see above which Cally would be stiffer
Ashton BBGM = 1 and 1/4

anyway SMT-Boy sorry to have taken over your thread...hope something of this helped

We won't be getting into a big debate. I enjoy reading your takes here and on freegolfinfo. And I sure hope you stick around. You are right. The beam length is a bit longer if I slide the tip weight down. Now if I have 2 driver heads of the same weight but one has an extra long hosel(i.e Ashton) or a bore through head(i.e titleist) and the other one has a short hosel (i.e Callaway) won't that affect the frequency? By the way I got the reference from the Kona website.

http://konagolfsales.com/specsandtrim.htm

[Chieflongtee]

Yeah My last take. The following was posted by Tim Hewitt (Mercury distributor) a while back. Thought you should know SMT.

> The shafts are engineered to be butt trimmed to length. This means that
> the tip section is stable enough to handle the heavier weights of the
> short irons without trimming. They build to a fairly flat slope if butt
> trimmed to length, however remember that steep slopes are made for
> Tapered Steel Shafts which by definition have soft tip sections that
> need to be stiffened up for heavier short iron heads.
>
> They do have plenty of parallel tip to trim them to a steeper slope if
> desired however to fit the playing characteristics of your golfer. This
> gives you a large number of fitting options with each flex of shaft as
> you need them.
>
> I generally butt trim only for smooth swingers and slower swing speeds,
> tip 1/2 the recommendation for regular golfers, and use the full tip
> trimming for players who smash down hard and go at the ball
> aggressively.
>
> Nice shafts. Play with some and develop your own fitting style.
>
> -t

[SMT-Boy]

239 was the soft stiff. See for yourself

http://konagolfsales.com/specsandtri...aphite%20woods

So with starting with a 239cpm in a 198 gram head with a 2 inch insertion at 44 and a quarter length it should be in the 250 cpm range?

[SMT-Boy]

Yeah My last take. The following was posted by Tim Hewitt (Mercury distributor) a while back. Thought you should know SMT.

> The shafts are engineered to be butt trimmed to length. This means that
> the tip section is stable enough to handle the heavier weights of the
> short irons without trimming. They build to a fairly flat slope if butt
> trimmed to length, however remember that steep slopes are made for
> Tapered Steel Shafts which by definition have soft tip sections that
> need to be stiffened up for heavier short iron heads.
>
> They do have plenty of parallel tip to trim them to a steeper slope if
> desired however to fit the playing characteristics of your golfer. This
> gives you a large number of fitting options with each flex of shaft as
> you need them.
>
> I generally butt trim only for smooth swingers and slower swing speeds,
> tip 1/2 the recommendation for regular golfers, and use the full tip
> trimming for players who smash down hard and go at the ball
> aggressively.
>
> Nice shafts. Play with some and develop your own fitting style.
>
> -t

So I am thinking I should half the tip trimming instructions as I generate a lot of speed, but would not say I smash down on the ball.

[SMT-Boy]

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Any experience with this one? I considered it when I ordered, but was concerned it would play too stiff at 44inches?

[Chieflongtee]

The old dynacraft BBGM trimming method suggests that you dry fit the club and measure total length and subtract the result from the raw length of the shaft. Example: raw shaft 45 inches. Club length after dryfitting 46.5 therefore tip trim 1.5 inches then cut to final playing length. I would not tip trim it more than 2 inches though as it is the max suggested by Mercury and you may run out of parallel tip section. I can't predict the final cpm as I don't know the tip trim sensitivity for this particular shaft. The savage competition is pretty stout. 250 cpms at 44.25 is more in the regular flex range on my frequency chart(Kaufman) but all of this is guessing especially if comparing with Graman shafts as we'd have to compare shaft profiles either on a frequency meter or a NF4 or a deflection board.

[Weirfan]

man..I typed a long response and boom gone?? I will summarize

not sure where they get their freq numbers....as stated 250 at 45 inches is centerline R with a 5 inch clamp.....they might be confusing the RP scale ( 2.5 inch clamp here)

your raw cpm reading on the shaft will be at full length ....it will differ significantly with the head on .

If you want a s-x butt freq at 44.25 inches you are looking for a butt freq of 262 -278 cpm...but this shaft plays stiff IMO

you have a 120 -130 ss but do not go after it and are smoother tempoed so can play softer rated shafts...

The shaft is rated for a ss of 105
you have a head with a BBGM of 2 inches so this will soften the shaft
you have a head that typically weighs in at 200+ grams at east in the 5 -6 I have used....so furtehr softening although insignificant


I guess that you have two options.....

try the shaft and if it no work....sell it or use it elsewhere ...it is a very innexpensive shaft

buy another shaft.

I still think that you should try it tipped 1 inch, ( this will account for the longer BBGM) but leave the butt an additional inch longer than your final desired playing length...try it by gripping down,,,,,see how it feels, plays and the trajectory.

adjusts as needed...again with thos head in an 8.5*, the characteristics of this shaft with such a low launch head I would be worried that overtipping would cause too low a traj,,,,,

good luck!

oh...you could call Tim Chopp at TOur Swing Golf...he knows more about these shafts than anyone

[SMT-Boy]

Thanks, I will try a 1 inch or 1/2 inch tip trim on it and see how it plays...I got the shaft yesterday and I am waiting for my extractor to arrive so that I can pull the NV out of the head. The CPM on the shaft is listed as 240 so its a wee bit stiffer than the Savage I have. As long as its straight, feels good and does not balloon I will be happy with it and I think the head will take care of most of those traits anyway. Thanks for the help.

[Chieflongtee]

I hit the ball very high as well with too much spin. My clubhead speed is mid 120's...crept into the 130's this summer a couple of times. .

Where did you get that measured? What is your average carry and total distance?