X factor and other such teachings

[byerxa]

I am coming to the conclusion that there are certain fundamentals to the golf swing that are universal, and beyond that it starts to become "flavour of the day". For example, as BC has stated, impact at ball with flat lead wrist, swing plane, etc. Then there are more directed instructional "ideas" that are either too narrow in scope or just plain wrong. Some may argue the whole single plane vs. dual plane vs. single axis etc. as being important but I am finding it is a matter of finding "your" swing founded on the basics.

For example, take the "X Factor" - I personally think the concept is the kiss of death for hacks like me (and most seem to agree when you read up on it). In trying to stabilze my typcially loose lower body, I was resisting hip rotation on the back swing. I don't know why, but I swear it was subconcious because I had read MacLean's X factor crap in a golf rag at some point. After way too much time I finally went to my instructor and he was disgusted at what he saw (rightfully so). So we did the usual session and off I went. I've been working on that take-away weight shift and have finally re-discovered "pinning" the rear knee for stability and NOT restricting the hips. Bingo - auto weight shift back to lead foot on downswing and freely swinging through the ball without compensations. Suddenly the mechanics of the rest of the swing became much less crucial and it became much easier to hit a half decent shot.

Today I left the range happy yet pi**ed off - a successful session but also the realization that I struggled this year because I am an idiot. It's been a few years now since I've been taking lessons and it always comes back to the fundamentals. I've spent a large part of the year screwing around and not really improving. I am not going to read another POC instruction article or tip out of a magazine again because even though I know better than to follow the information, it still seems to work its way into my little brain!

[rhh7]

I agree with your sentiments. The thing that matters is impact. I turn both feet out to the same degree. This allows my hips to turn freely in both directions, and minimizes the stress on my aching back.

As to one plane or two, I think the so called "two plane" swing is easier on the back. Again, I would argue that most of the greats swing back slightly above the plane of impact, and drop into the perfect plane on the downswing. This goes all the way back to my study of film of Ben Hogan in the 50's.

[Powerdraw]

byerxa,
that is one of the strangest names ive ever seen....byerxa...what does it stand for?
but, i must say, i will copy paste your post on every golf forum i know of...GRANDSLAM HOMERUN POST on your part. thanks for that.

[BC MIST]

I am coming to the conclusion that there are certain fundamentals to the golf swing that are universal, and beyond that it starts to become "flavour of the day".....

Aha! Another cynic. And when our numbers increase, I'll wager that our handicaps will decrease.

The "X" factor you mention is bogus and will lead to lower back problems if you try to create it. Those that are flexible will have their hips turned less than those of us who are not. So what? It does not matter. Swing the arms back and the left shoulder will turn, (independently of the right, BTW). When the left shoulder turns, so will the hips. It is just a natural sequence of movements that is an effect, not a cause.

The two planes of significance are the turned shoulder plane and the shaft axis plane. In the "Single Plane" swing the left arm coincides with the turned shoulder plane, but on the downswing there is a plane shift to get the club shaft back on the shaft axis plane. So why call it a "Single" plane swing? The "double plane" swing just means the the left arm is above the shoulder plane and when the plane shift takes place, the shaft has farther to go to get back on the shaft axis plane. To do so, the golfer must have more lower body motion and so this is MORE difficult on the back, not less. The "single" plane swing is easier to learn than the "double" and should yield more consistency.

The SINGLE AXIS swing, and be careful what you say about this, my swing, is a different kettle of fish altogether. The right arm and the club shaft align at address, so the shaft is on the proper plane before you swing. The right hand grip is more in the palm of the hand than in the fingers, so the rotation that takes place on the downswing does so over a longer distance, so timing is of lesser importance. In the SA swing more of the body is facing the ball at impact, versus the different planes of the hip, thighs, torso and shoulders of the traditional swing, which are all aimed in different directions. All other things being equal, a good single axis swing is easier to perform and results in straighter shots than either of the other two. Some say there is a little distance loss because of the reduced amount of rotation and this makes sense, but I have not experienced this.

You are bang on in that you must find your own swing and the necessary feelings that get the ball going straight down the middle. It does not matter what it looks like, just as long as it works. While there are a few positions that are essential for good shots to happen, they are a lot easier to achieve than the pseudo experts would have us believe. Square setup, flat lead and bent trail wrist positions, club shaft on the correct plane, hitting down on the ball, are almost all you really need, combined with your inate ability to REPEAT what is correct.

If instructors want us to think of only one or two things when we swing (which is one or two too many) why do the instruction books and tapes give us 10,000 swings thoughts (where 9990 are wrong anyway) ??? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If modern day instruction, the large forgiving drivers, large MOI irons, graphite shafts and a ball that does not curve, are all so good, why has the average golf score improved only less than 1 stroke, in 25 years?

[hoylake]

For example, take the "X Factor" - I personally think the concept is the kiss of death for hacks like me (and most seem to agree when you read up on it). In trying to stabilze my typcially loose lower body, I was resisting hip rotation on the back swing.

Don't feel bad, McLean's latest trope is the "slot" swing, his miraculous discovery that many top pros are a little flatter coming down than they were on the way back. In his lab the other day he also discovered that golf shoes have spikes, stay tuned for the press conference.

I don't know why, but I swear it was subconcious because I had read MacLean's X factor crap in a golf rag at some point. After way too much time I finally went to my instructor and he was disgusted at what he saw (rightfully so). So we did the usual session and off I went. I've been working on that take-away weight shift and have finally re-discovered "pinning" the rear knee for stability and NOT restricting the hips. Bingo.

Yes. You're absolutely right. Turn the hips, the braced right knee is the governor. If you keep the left heel down or near the ground (as flexibility will dictate) and maintain a braced right knee you can turn the hips as much as possible on the backswing and this is exactly what a golfer needs. Tom Watson mentioned once that the number one problem he saw in amateurs was not enough turn. In theory, simply swinging the club back should take care of this turning motion but in my experience it doesn't. Laziness creeps in and you end up just swinging back with the arms. The swing is a coordinated motion of arms and body, Snead tried to get the shoulders and hips turning in unison, in synch. Jones pushed off from the left side and turned his whole body away from the ball. The flexibility of today's top pros disguises it but they are not restricting anything, they are keeping the left heel flat and turning their hips as much as possible. That the shoulders ultimately out-turn the hips owes to human physiology, not to McLean and his dip X-Factor.

Today I left the range happy yet pi**ed off - a successful session but also the realization that I struggled this year because I am an idiot.

Not at all. The gains are hard won, it's all part of the fun...

[BC MIST]

Turn the hips, ...the braced right knee is the governor.

If you keep the left heel down or near the ground (as flexibility will dictate) and maintain a braced right knee you can turn the hips as much as possible on the backswing and this is exactly what a golfer needs. In theory, simply swinging the club back should take care of this turning motion but in my experience it doesn't.

Laziness creeps in and you end up just swinging back with the arms.

The flexibility of today's top pros disguises it but they are not restricting anything, they are keeping the left heel flat and turning their hips as much as possible. That the shoulders ultimately out-turn the hips owes to human physiology,

The braced right leg prevents the hips from sliding to the right which causes the reverse pivot, which causes a host of ugly shots. If a golfer has developed hit anxiety, this may prevent him from finishing his back swing in its proper sequence, thereby giving the appearance of swinging with the arms only. Compare the golfers practice swing to his "at the ball" swing," and this can be confirmed. Therefore, telling the golfer to turn the hips or shoulders to overcome this fault, is fine. However, if you stand relaxed in front of a mirror in your setup position, and just pull your arms back, the shoulders and hips will make as much turn as needed, without any conscious thought.

The hips and shoulders GET TURNED, you don't turn them. Again, stand in front of a mirror in setup, grip pressure 1/10, and slowly turn your shoulders or turn your hips. If you do this HONESTLY, the club will drag along the floor around you. The bottom line is simple. If you are correctly relaxed, the pulling back of the arms will complete the shoulder and hip turn.

The shoulders turn independently of each other and begin the back swing already pointed forward about 40* because of the setup position. Therefore, the left shoulder only has to turn about 50* to have it opposite the ball at the top. The purpose of the left shoulder turn is to get the arms/hands/club in the top of the back swing "slot," a position from which the club can be dropped down to the shaft axis plane. The pulling of the arms back easily gets the left shoulder turned the small additional required amount. If a golfer tries to increase the left shoulder turn by "turning the shoulders" thinking that the greater the turn the farther the ball will go, he puts the arms/hands club in a poor position, making it more difficult to come down properly.

While it is not taught like this by all instructors, the arms control the body movement on the back swing, if YOU let them.

[hoylake]

The braced right leg prevents the hips from sliding to the right which causes the reverse pivot, which causes a host of ugly shots. If a golfer has developed hit anxiety, this may prevent him from finishing his back swing in its proper sequence, thereby giving the appearance of swinging with the arms only. Compare the golfers practice swing to his "at the ball" swing," and this can be confirmed. Therefore, telling the golfer to turn the hips or shoulders to overcome this fault, is fine. However, if you stand relaxed in front of a mirror in your setup position, and just pull your arms back, the shoulders and hips will make as much turn as needed, without any conscious thought.

The hips and shoulders GET TURNED, you don't turn them. Again, stand in front of a mirror in setup, grip pressure 1/10, and slowly turn your shoulders or turn your hips. If you do this HONESTLY, the club will drag along the floor around you. The bottom line is simple. If you are correctly relaxed, the pulling back of the arms will complete the shoulder and hip turn.

I agree -- but this "hit anxiety", as you term it, is a huge factor. What I am speaking of is perhaps ingraining a body turn as a matter of habit, so at the moment of truth you don't freeze and end up arms-only. To make a good body turn, or allow a turn to happen as you describe, requires a "letting go" that can be a little terrifying, especially with the little white ball sitting there -- again, the hit anxiety. George Knudson had a famous axiom, "You have to give up control to get control." In my experience most golfers are the complete opposite of relaxed over the ball, the shoulders and hips are frozen up and not in a position to easily "get turned" by the swing motion. If you mentally keep tabs on his, resolve to actually make a smooth body turn and not just swing the arms, it can free things up. BTW, I agree that shoulder thoughts are ruinous, I am speaking of an overall smooth turn away from the ball.

If you watch a kid learning to play, the swing is naturally loose, they take a giant step back and away from the ball, turning their bodies instinctively to generate force. Free from hit anxiety, not caring about anything except whaling at the ball, their arms control the motion and they get it right. As adults, perhaps, the trick is to get this feeling back.

[leftylucas]

As to one plane or two, I think the so called "two plane" swing is easier on the back. .

I have played the 2 plane since I started playing 13 yrs ago and switched this year to the 1 plane and I have to say that the latter is much easier on the back than the 2 plane. Jacobson also switched to the 1 plane due to back problems. Maybe it depneds on what type of problem one has with the back.

[mcgoo]

This year I started using the Mike Weir short backswing practice at setwp to turn my shoulders and hips even before my swing. I bring the club back to the ball without returning my shoulders and hips square to the ball and then take my swing. This has helped me stop coming accross the ball because my shoulders and hips have a headstart improving the inside out motion of the swing.

Is this opposed to what you experts are saying in this thread? Why has it been such a help for me?

Would appreciate you opinions.

[hoylake]

This year I started using the Mike Weir short backswing practice at setwp to turn my shoulders and hips even before my swing. I bring the club back to the ball without returning my shoulders and hips square to the ball and then take my swing. This has helped me stop coming accross the ball because my shoulders and hips have a headstart improving the inside out motion of the swing.

Is this opposed to what you experts are saying in this thread? Why has it been such a help for me?

Would appreciate you opinions.

I'm probably more an obsessed golf psycho than an expert but -- if I read this correctly you are adapting the Weir waggle in a manner that sets up for an inside approach to the ball. If it works for you, if it curtails a habit of cutting across, it's good. Better than good, it's fabulous, I played this year with a 4-handicapper who pretty much did exactly what you describe. If there is a negative it is that coming extreme from the inside leads to a 'handsy" impact, you're vulnerable to pushes and pulls if the timing is not perfect. But in terms of getting on the road to better golf, the positives far outweigh the negatives. I believe that learning to attack from the inside, even severely inside, is a neccessary step en route to better golf. A lot of players get stuck here as in stuck in the high 70s low 80s, you can do a lot of good damage with this swing. There may come a time when you feel that you have cured the cutting across habit for good, at that point you may want to try, for lack of a better term, a less "inside" approach and try coming more down the line and through the ball. But until then, keep doing it, if you attack from the inside and draw the ball you are on your way and then some.

[mcgoo]

Hoylake; Thanks for the reply. You have interpreted my description of my preswing body set-up perfectly. And I do push and pull on occasion. But no slicing or hocking, no side ball spin as I had at the start of the season. (this was my third) I am now playing close to bogie golf largely because of this.(and better putting)

But I pull (not draw) all my irons and do not do the Mike Weir thing with the iron setup, that would rotate the shoulders and hips before the swing. In other words I am coming accross the ball with my irons, but rather than a slice I am getting a pull. (I am a short hitter, slow clubspeed) So I am thinking of doing the same thing with my iron setup next year.

[BC MIST]

This year I started using the Mike Weir short backswing practice at setwp to turn my shoulders and hips even before my swing. I bring the club back to the ball without returning my shoulders and hips square to the ball and then take my swing. This has helped me stop coming accross the ball because my shoulders and hips have a headstart improving the inside out motion of the swing. Is this opposed to what you experts are saying in this thread? Why has it been such a help for me?

If you WERE cutting across the ball consistently before, it is likely that your shoulders were open at address and the arms tend to come down along the address shoulder line. By taking your arms back, with some LEFT shoulder turn, you are now likely starting with square setup. I say left shoulder turn as the shoulders do work independently of each other.

Rather than coming sharply from the inside, my guess is that you are now coming slightly from the inside, which is ideal. By all means do this with your irons as with a shorter, more upright club, it is easier to pull, so ensuring a square setup may help eliminate the pulls which is caused by an outside path.

Two other suggestions come to mind: 1. Look at the inside quadrant of the ball, not the back of it and try to hit it. This helps you start down with the hands moving back and down first and decreases the chance of the dreaded out move. 2. As a drill, setup in an impact backwards position. Take your normal setup. Then, flex your knees forward a little simulating where they would be at impact. This also lowers the right shoulder a little instead of its being farther out towards the target line. Do your preset motion and then swing. If you start in an ideal impact position, there is a greater tendency to come back to it on the downswing.

[hoylake]

Hoylake; Thanks for the reply. You have interpreted my description of my preswing body set-up perfectly. And I do push and pull on occasion. But no slicing or hocking, no side ball spin as I had at the start of the season. (this was my third) I am now playing close to bogie golf largely because of this.(and better putting)

Good stuff, mcgoo. Bogey golf in season #3 is a real accomplishment. It shows what can happen when you have the guts to try things, search for your own answers. It doesn't matter what it looks like, it matters what works, for you.