Soft shaft= going right????

[Chieflongtee]

I have read many claims on different threads where the poster claims that too soft a shaft will make the ball go right. Providing that the torque is low and the same on all shafts compared why would that be?

[mcgoo]

I have found the opposite to be the case with my swing. I pull soft shafts and push stiff shafts.

[John]

I'm in the same boat as Mcgoo. I hit huge pulls with shafts that are too soft and cuts with stuff that's too stiff.

[Golfbum]

Me three. I find with shafts that are too stiff I can not square the clubface up at the ball.
I once tried out an older Ping driver. I kept hitting hooks with it. Looked at the shaft, it was a Senior flex. I was getting that face closed too quickly, hence the hooks.

[Pinshark]

I find if the shaft is too soft I put a huge banana slice on it. I think the shaft is bent so bad the face is open at impact.

[Started2k3]

see the "Note" towards the end of the page

http://www.tutelman.com/golfclubs/De...flex1.php?ref=

[LobWedge]

see the "Note" towards the end of the page

http://www.tutelman.com/golfclubs/De...flex1.php?ref=

That's me. I'm definitely a "hitter". I get my best results with a shaft between X & XX depending on the manufacturer, and I need the butt end to be really stiff. I really load the shaft at the start of the downswing.

[Chieflongtee]

Ok then. If you are a hitter or a swinger and swing a ball retriever with a ball in it where will the ball end up in both cases?

[LobWedge]

Ok then. If you are a hitter or a swinger and swing a ball retriever with a ball in it where will the ball end up in both cases?

With my luck, the retriever and the ball would end up stuck in my ass.

[Chieflongtee]

And this:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shoptalk/message/72327

Don't know if you meant your question to go to Tom Wishon or not when you
addressed it to "TOM", but I'll pop in with a comment on this.

Based on my experience and research, what I have seen in both high speed video
as well as in modeling, the "properly fit shaft" arrives at impact slightly
bowed forward for golfers who have a relatively late to late release of the
wrist cock angle coming into impact. For golfers who release the club early,
such as at the start of the downswing, the shaft tends to arrive at impact
pretty darn straight with no bending. And hardly ever will the club arrive at
impact with the head behind the shaft in a "lagging mode" - this is VERY rare
and from my work only can happen when you have a VERY VERY Late release WITH a
very strong acceleration of the club ALL THE WAY from the top to impact, and
with a shaft that is too flexible for that golfer - i.e. Tiger Wood's stinger
shot swing with a more flexible shaft than what he would typically use.

TOM

[Chieflongtee]

With my luck, the retriever and the ball would end up stuck in my ass.

Hole in one

[Big Johnny69]

I tend to find the ball goes high and right for me if the shaft is too soft. Had this chat with the club builder and he tends to agree with me. He's not sold on the "weak means left" philosophy. But if a shaft is too stiff, I either hit it straight and short or low and right.

[BC MIST]

I have read many claims on different threads where the poster claims that too soft a shaft will make the ball go right. Providing that the torque is low and the same on all shafts compared why would that be?

If DT is using Jeff Summitt and Tom Wishon as his source of information, I would suggest that he read Tom's latest books to see what the other researchers have discovered in the meantime. "The Modern Guide to Shaft Fitting" was written, what, more than a decade ago?

Tom recently discovered that the shaft does NOT load and unload as Dave describes. While the shaft flexes at the start of the downswing it does so in a 6 to 12 plane. Through impact the shaft flexes in a 3 to 9 plane, therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to unload as described, as loading and unloading are opposite "operations." However, if the shaft LOADS and "UNLOADS," the unloading HAS to be a shaft DROOP and not the flexing forward.

My experience with soft to very stiff shafts shows that there is an obvious difference in FEEL, subtle differences in trajectory and zero difference in accuracy. I don't believe that a softer shaft can put a big slice on the ball when one a little stiffer, will hit the ball straight. But, if the golfer perceives a radical difference in FEEL of one shaft over another, he may alter his swing and that may a cause a difference in flight.

[Farzin]

However, if the shaft LOADS and "UNLOADS," the unloading HAS to be a shaft DROOP and not the flexing forward.

My experience with soft to very stiff shafts shows that there is an obvious difference in FEEL, subtle differences in trajectory and zero difference in accuracy. I don't believe that a softer shaft can put a big slice on the ball when one a little stiffer, will hit the ball straight. But, if the golfer perceives a radical difference in FEEL of one shaft over another, he may alter his swing and that may a cause a difference in flight.

Not an expert but I agree with BC.
No matter how stiff the shaft is, the club head doesn't impact the ball unless it is in straight line with the shaft, , therefore slicing right or hooking left has nothing to do with the stiffness of theshaft. Imagine a golf ball attached to a string hanging from ceiling like a pendulum, no matter how fast you swing the ball, The ball and the string always reach the bottom of the swing at the same time in straight line without any curvature in the string.. Now since the golf club swings at a high speed not vertically but in a tilted plain "except for Monte" , due to the weight of the club head "Swing Weight" the shaft tends to slightly bend towards the ground to a natural or vertical position, that is why the club head "toe"drops at impact relative to set up position where the toe of the club is up.
At impact, club head can have one of the 3 positions relative to target line: open, close or square. One can argue the torque of shaft might have something to do with the slicing or hooking other than actual swing through the ball, that causes the club head to stay open, close or square.

[Started2k3]

If DT is using Jeff Summitt and Tom Wishon as his source of information, I would suggest that he read Tom's latest books to see what the other researchers have discovered in the meantime. "The Modern Guide to Shaft Fitting" was written, what, more than a decade ago?

Tom recently discovered that the shaft does NOT load and unload as Dave describes. While the shaft flexes at the start of the downswing it does so in a 6 to 12 plane. Through impact the shaft flexes in a 3 to 9 plane, therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to unload as described, as loading and unloading are opposite "operations." However, if the shaft LOADS and "UNLOADS," the unloading HAS to be a shaft DROOP and not the flexing forward.

My experience with soft to very stiff shafts shows that there is an obvious difference in FEEL, subtle differences in trajectory and zero difference in accuracy. I don't believe that a softer shaft can put a big slice on the ball when one a little stiffer, will hit the ball straight. But, if the golfer perceives a radical difference in FEEL of one shaft over another, he may alter his swing and that may a cause a difference in flight.

Online example from Wishon

http://www.wishongolf.com/etechreport/2006/june/#art3
Scroll down to the "1A. What does the shaft NOT DO in the swing?" section. And pay close attention to the paragraph with "EXTREMELY RARE" in it, with relevence to the original post.

[BC MIST]

Online example from Wishon

http://www.wishongolf.com/etechreport/2006/june/#art3
Scroll down to the "1A. What does the shaft NOT DO in the swing?" section. And pay close attention to the paragraph with "EXTREMELY RARE" in it, with relevence to the original post.

" Only in EXTREMELY RARE circumstances will the shaft be lagging backward when the clubhead arrives at impact. This can only happen when, 1) the golfer never fully unhinges the wrist-cock before impact, 2) the golfer also has a very aggressive downswing acceleration with the arms, 3) the shaft is flexible enough so it cannot resist the effects of #1 and #2 to start bending forward.

99.9% of the time for players with a mid-way to late downswing release (unhinging of the wrist-cock angle) the shaft will arrive at impact bent FORWARD by some amount." That's 1 golfer in 1000 who has the swing characteristics that Tom describes that causes too soft a shaft to have the face open at impact. These characteristics are those more likely to be of touring professional, rather than those of an Ottawa Golf Forum member.

[Started2k3]

...These characteristics are those more likely to be of touring professional, rather than those of an Ottawa Golf Forum member.

Now you are just trying to upset me by saying I can't hit like a touring pro.

Rephrase it to " ... an AVERAGE Ottawa Golf Forum member." then I would agree. But I would not be surprised at all to find a few OGF members who can hit more like a long drive pro.