Ball Position

[Chieflongtee]

Just curious as to whether you play all shots from the same ball position or if you move it around.

http://www.golfincostarica.com/const...l_position.htm

http://tutelman.com/golfclubs/Design...ngwt1.php?ref=

http://www.easy2.com/tutorials/glf0103/index.asp

[little brit]

I use Harmons example, which is also Hogans pretty much. Ball stays the same but I widen my stance by moving my right foot further out for the longer clubs. I find it more consistant that way. I also slightly open my stance the shorter the club.

[B Nation]

I move my ball position slightly, as well as widen my stance slightly.
Moving ball position also helps control trajectory and shape shots.

[BC MIST]

Just curious as to whether you play all shots from the same ball position or if you move it around.

Neither. One position for the irons and another position, farther forward, for the woods, on all normal shots,

[jvincent]

Voted different for all clubs, but it's also different for any given club depending on the shot I want to hit, lie, etc.

[Pinshark]

I am same as Jvincent different for every shot not only every club.

[rhh7]

I think I do the same as little brit.

[jonf]

Whatever feels right at the time? I put the ball where it feels most comfortable for the swing I plan on making. It's a feel thing.

[BC MIST]

I also slightly open my stance the shorter the club.

While I recognize that opening the stance for full swings with the shorter irons was and still is taught, I still cannot understand why. Developing sound fundamentals is best done from a square stance and the square stance provides the golfer with the maximum probability of swinging on a good plane, achieving a square club face at separation and hitting the ball straight or with a slight, pure draw action.

By opening the stance all of this is thrown out the window and compensations are necessary to hit the same kind of shots, unless one wants a slight fade ball flight. This can be done by accomplished golfers but those who are working on developing a sound swing, are best to align squarely. Most golfers' weakness is an over the top motion and shoulders that are aligned open, encourages this swing path as the arms will go where the shoulders are aligned.

[Chieflongtee]

Probably from Hogan's book. He claimed that this position refrained him from overswinging when control was needed. From the same book he had a closed stance with the driver and open stance for the 6 iron to the wedges. Everything is squared up to the target except that on long clubs the forward foot is ahead of the rear foot and the opposite on short clubs.

[jeffc]

Neither. One position for the irons and another position, farther forward, for the woods, on all normal shots,

same here. Irons and hybrids all the same (middle of stance), woods off my inside left heel.

for chipping, etc. the ball is back in my stance near my right foot.

[little brit]

While I recognize that opening the stance for full swings with the shorter irons was and still is taught, I still cannot understand why. Developing sound fundamentals is best done from a square stance and the square stance provides the golfer with the maximum probability of swinging on a good plane, achieving a square club face at separation and hitting the ball straight or with a slight, pure draw action.

By opening the stance all of this is thrown out the window and compensations are necessary to hit the same kind of shots, unless one wants a slight fade ball flight. This can be done by accomplished golfers but those who are working on developing a sound swing, are best to align squarely. Most golfers' weakness is an over the top motion and shoulders that are aligned open, encourages this swing path as the arms will go where the shoulders are aligned.

I only VERY slightly open my stance BC, it feels natural to me the shorter the club gets. My natural ball flight is a bit of a draw or pull. I have a tendancy to come a bit too underplane on the downswing.

[BC MIST]

Probably from Hogan's book. He claimed that this position refrained him from overswinging when control was needed. From the same book he had a closed stance with the driver and open stance for the 6 iron to the wedges. Everything is squared up to the target except that on long clubs the forward foot is ahead of the rear foot and the opposite on short clubs.

Hogan made a number of claims that were contrary to either fact or what would be best for the average Joe, but I understand that it is heresy to question him. His left hand thumb position and his exceptional flexibility caused the early over swing and resulting hook.

Regardless, if you want aim left, (open setup) don't expect straight shots. Although, it may be possible to have the feet aiming in one direction, either slightly open or closed, and still have the shoulders aiming parallel left of the target line. But why? Just to feel comfortable? Your feet alignment is far less important than your shoulder alignment and your arms will go where your shoulders are aligned.

[Chieflongtee]

Depends on your definition of a square position. Hogan's book does not tell to aim left but rather to have the left foot drawn back(right hand golfer) for short irons and pulled ahead for longer shots. In both cases you are aiming directly at the target not right nor left of it. I have a square set up. I also do not suscribe to his grip style(where the Vs are pointed to the chin). What a beautiful balance though
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0671...15#reader-link

[BC MIST]

Depends on your definition of a square position. Hogan's book does not tell to aim left but rather to have the left foot drawn back(right hand golfer) for short irons and pulled ahead for longer shots. In both cases you are aiming directly at the target not right nor left of it. I have a square set up. I also do not suscribe to his grip style(where the Vs are pointed to the chin). What a beautiful balance though
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0671...15#reader-link

In "my" ideal square setup position, the shoulders and hips are aiming parallel left of the target line, ie., about 3' left of my destination. I can maintain this position if I have my left foot a little closer to the target line than my right or visa versa. IMO, the most important part of the setup is where my shoulders are aligned, followed by my thighs. The feet are almost irrelevant.

Even though Hogan wanted the left hip to turn left on the downswing, the picture on the cover of the book from your link, shows that his hips and shoulders are "almost" facing the ball at impact. Moe Norman would be pleased.

[Kiwi]

I am just getting into golf in a big way, third year, sixty + rounds this year. I follow the philosophy taught by the OAC Golf School and that is the ball stays in the same position (i.e. 1" left of centre/sternum - for righties). I expect that some of the instructors feel differently, but that is what I got from it. I have recently read that you should determine where the bottom of your swing/arc is and place the ball there. I recall, also, from many years ago that the pros felt that your swing should be the same, regardless of the club. So I conclude that the ball should be placed in the same place all the time (full swing), as it relates to the bottom of your swing/arc. This is fundamental, however, as those above have noted, if you are trying to shape or knock down your shot the ball position will change. I thought that the different result from your shot comes from the loft of the club, rather than your ball placement. Having said this, I do tee up more foreward, inside left heel, and for those less than full swing shots, chips and short pitch shots it varies depending on the type of shot such as a long run out vs a flop (I wish).

[milner_7]

My set up goes as follows---feet together with the ball in the centre. front foot (my right I'm a lefty) moves out the width of my foot at a 45* angle and then the same with the back foot. The back foot stays pretty straight. This is for wedge shots. from 9 down its an additional inch per club club up depending what I am hitting. My right shoulder is turned slightly to get my head behind the ball.

[BC MIST]

I am just getting into golf in a big way, third year, sixty + rounds this year. I follow the philosophy taught by the OAC Golf School and that is the ball stays in the same position (i.e. 1" left of centre/sternum - for righties). I expect that some of the instructors feel differently, but that is what I got from it. I have recently read that you should determine where the bottom of your swing/arc is and place the ball there. I recall, also, from many years ago that the pros felt that your swing should be the same, regardless of the club. So I conclude that the ball should be placed in the same place all the time (full swing), as it relates to the bottom of your swing/arc.

From my readings and experience playing the ball from ONE standard position works best if your iron clubs are MOI matched and if swing weight matched the ball should be played farther back as swing weight matched clubs will square up at different positions. How many golfer have MOI matched clubs? The instructors suggest the one position, presumably, because of simplicity for relative beginners and because they don't understand the difference of an MOI matched set.

Forgive my bluntness, but making ball contact at the bottom of the swing arc with the irons, while typically suggested, is just not correct, unless this refers to woods only. The bottom of the swing arc for the irons is at least 2" or more in front of or on the target side of the ball. This is where your divot should start and you should take a divot with all irons. Unless your hands are ahead of the ball at impact, trying to make contact at the bottom of the arc will lead to FAT shots most of the time. Also, club ball contact here will be farther up the face or the iron and you will hit the ball higher and shorter. The feeling that you want to get is that the second groove on the iron makes contact with the ball just below its equator. It is closer to a topped shot than fat one. Making contact here, closer to the clubs centre of gravity, will allow maximum transference of energy and that deliriously delectable feeling of a purely struck iron shot.

Lastly, and also contrary to what is commonly taught, you should hit down on your fairway woods and your driver. The FW will scrape the grass(divot), because the ball position is farther forward. While you will not take a divot with the driver, if you hit UP on it as is suggested, you will lose the bent right wrist angle coming through, diminishing both club head speed(distance) and accuracy

[Kiwi]

Wow! Pretty technical, but I understand the swing arc/divot part. My clubs, TaylorMade RAC OS, are off the rack so I don't suppose they are either MOI or swing weight matched.

I often start my divot behind the ball and do get very high shots that land with little or no roll. I am hitting 140-145 with my 7 iron (based on results) but I should be getting more as all I hear from my golf partners is "gee you hit the ball high". I have a hard time putting the ball back further in my stance to enable me to take a divot after the ball as it appears (visual) that if I do that I will hit it with an open club face. I believe that the extra inches forward in my stance will allow me to close/square the face and at least start the ball on line. Although only golfing seriously for the last three years, I have had some clubs since age 10. I think part of my issue is that I used to chip with my three iron, and of course to get it airborn I would have to flick my wrists. I think that I still have a tendency to do that and most of the video sessions I have been to confirm that I rarely hit with my hands forward of the ball. I am thinking in investing in the Rick Smith golf glove with the rigid cuff to at least warn me that this is happening. With being a relative beginner, there is so much happening in the swing (mental thoughts) that I just try to keep "swing easy" and "sweep the ball" in my fore-brain. When I tense up or try to extend my distance (rathter than take a longer club) I tend to dig in well behind the ball. My regular partners say I drop my back shoulder, trying to power the ball with my strength (?) rather than let the full swing motion power the ball.

I appreciate your comments and will certainly take them with me to golf school this winter. Now that I have more games under my belt and a good set of clubs maybe I can move to the next level.

No disrespect, but with all the MOI, swing weight stuff, that is in the literature now, how much worse would Tiger, Retief, Phil or Freddy Funk play with an off the rack set? I'd like to think that if you have good fundamentals, like Freddy (Furyk not included) you can shoot a pretty reasonable score. I did shoot 81 this year and I hit all my shots solid, did not make any mental mistakes (except one hole) and felt very comfortable over the ball.

[BC MIST]

Wow! Pretty technical, but I understand the swing arc/divot part. My clubs, TaylorMade RAC OS, are off the rack so I don't suppose they are either MOI or swing weight matched.

All off the rack clubs are swing weight matched, or should be.

I have a hard time putting the ball back further in my stance to enable me to take a divot after the ball as it appears (visual) that if I do that I will hit it with an open club face. I believe that the extra inches forward in my stance will allow me to close/square the face and at least start the ball on line.

Golfers who play the ball back in their stance often also hit the ball fat because with that position, there is little need to have the weight shift forward, hence the right shoulder drops and fat shot happens. A forward of centre ball position will cause your weight to get shifted (notice I did NOT say, "Shift your weight," ) and should actually make it easier to hit down on the ball. Once you get used to this downward angle of attack and hitting the ball first, you will be amazed at how your ball distance and accuracy will improve. Also hitting down will get those hands ahead of the ball at impact, one of the most important fundamentals of a good swing.

When you play the game, forget about all the things that you have worked on in practice and just swing. If you focus mentally on anything, just work on swinging smoothly from start to finish. Confine all the "mental thought" to the practice area.

No disrespect, but with all the MOI, swing weight stuff, that is in the literature now, how much worse would Tiger, Retief, Phil or Freddy Funk play with an off the rack set?

Don't kid yourself. The clubs the pros play do not resemble anything that you can buy off the rack, except in club head appearance. The pros do more tweaking of their clubs than any one of us can imagine and the clubs are probably better matched and in more ways than we currently know about.

There is a chapter in Tom Wishon's book, "Search for the Perfect Club," where he describes what he did to make a set of clubs for the late Payne Stewart. That should put what the pros do in perspective.

[Golfbum]

I play the ball in the same position on all full iron shots and drivers, fairway woods. I have had one lesson,last summer. The one thing the PRO taught me was to set up the same way everytime I step up to that ball at address.
The only time I will move the ball position in my setup is when I am trying to knock down a shot.
Now sometimes the ball does not end up in the "POSITION" I wanted it to end up at after I have hit the shot! That however was not a fault of the address ball position