Club Head Speed Experiment

[BC MIST]

i just came in from hitting a gazillion drives, using 7 different drivers, with 7 different shafts, but the same length. The shafts ranged in flex from "L" to "S".

My purpose was to see if there was any difference in club head speed while using a wide variety of shaft flexes. I averaged the SS after 14 hits with each of the drivers. Shafts were manufactured by UST, Fujikura, Wishon(2) Aldila, Mercury and Accuflex. While not purely scientific in nature, the outcomes are reasonable.

The results were NOT shocking and confirmed what Eric Cook has said for many years, in the club head speed is not related to shaft stiffness.

The highest average was 96 mph while the lowest was 94.75 mph, a whopping difference of 1.25 mph, or roughly 3 yards.

Just confirms that anyone who says that a golfer will pick up CHS by going to an overall softer or stiffer shaft, is grossly mistaken.

[dH]

A light flex shaft hit it just as far and straight as stiff? Is there any point ever in switching shaft flex?

[mcgoo]

How about the second more important factor, shaft weight influences SS. Heavy shafts slow SS and tend to be stiffer.

[little brit]

I found the same thing on a demo day. I had fun starting with my own, then tried pretty much all they had. So the weighting was very different too. The lofts were similar. I found that they all pretty much went the same distance. Direction wasn't much different except for the softer flexes which had a tendancy to go a little wild on me, but some just felt better for my tempo than others, which translated to straighter more consistant shots.

[covanant]

I find shaft stifness affects trajectory more than anything else.

[BC MIST]

How about the second more important factor, shaft weight influences SS. Heavy shafts slow SS and tend to be stiffer.

But how much weight difference would there have to be to see any significant difference in distance? From a steel shaft to a graphite, there would be a discernible difference, but from a 70 g shaft to a 55 g one, one would never notice any change. The shafts I used ranged from a raw weight of 54 g to 75 g and the difference between the lightest and heaviest was less than 1 mph.

[BC MIST]

A light flex shaft hit it just as far and straight as stiff? Is there any point ever in switching shaft flex?

I agree with covenant in that the trajectory MAY be different for some golfers, but not for all. Golfers with a fast swing and a late release will bend the shaft more at the transition and with a late release it will bend forward more through impact, increasing the trajectory. However, golfers with a mid to early release won't see any change in trajectory, regardless of the shaft's overall flex, because the shaft will have bent forward and then back to straight by impact.

The other factor is FEEL. Some will feel magical in your hands and others will feel awful. Find one that feels good and forget about the letter on the label, or out a piece of tape over it.

[kaimonica]

This is very interesting experimental data from a non-interested party (i.e. not someone trying to sell you stuff).

Are you saying that there is no point in fussing over whether you have regular or stiff shafts and that using one or the other will have minimal impact on distance?

Just want to make sure I understand your point. Thx.

[psniddy]

I think BC is saying that shaft weight and flex have little affect on swing speed. Makes good sense to me. I beleive that shaft flex will affect 3 things.
Tragectory
Distance
Dispersion
Shaft weight and stiffness may affect feel but it is hard to sceintifically quantify feel.

[BC MIST]

Are you saying that there is no point in fussing over whether you have regular or stiff shafts and that using one or the other will have minimal impact on distance?

IMO, shaft stiffness has little affect on CLUB HEAD speed. I say CLUB HEAD speed rather than DISTANCE because for some golfers, a shaft with a very stiff tip section will project the ball vary low resulting in distance loss and a very fast swinger with a very flexible tipped shaft may project the ball too high and lose any roll. The solution here could be to change shafts or change club head loft.I recognize that many/most club fitters still fit shafts by club head speed alone, however, HOW you swing helps to determine WHERE your shaft should be stiffer or more flexible.

Example: A friend and I have similar swing speeds and and we both hit the ball very straight. But, he swings very fast, has a fast transition, can put a lot of bend on the shaft and his wrist cock angle releases very late. I swing a lot smoother, release earlier than he does and I almost stop at the top of my backswing. His shaft has a stiff butt section and a very stiff tip section, while mine is about 20 cpm's softer in the butt and 96 cpm's softer in the tip. We end up with similar trajectories and distance, but when I swing his, it feels too stiff and when he swings mine, he says that there is too much wiggle in it for him.

[The Saint]

HOW you swing helps to determine WHERE your shaft should be stiffer or more flexible.

Good point!

Do you know of where one could find a matrix or chart to help identify the type of shaft one may require for optimum performance based on their swing type?

[Chieflongtee]

BC. If you go out again experimenting could you try the experiment with the overlap grip vs your 10 finger grip. From my experiments a little more speed can be generated with the overlap. LMK

[BC MIST]

BC. If you go out again experimenting could you try the experiment with the overlap grip vs your 10 finger grip. From my experiments a little more speed can be generated with the overlap. LMK

After 10 years of the 10 finger grip, you want me to suddenly use the overlap and get meaningful results?

I have hit a few shots in that time with my old overlap grip, but have not measured the SS. I feel like I have no control over the club and the ball invariably goes right, waaaaaay right.

Why do you feel the overlap goes farther? Keep in mind that my 10 finger grip is across the palm and not in the base of the fingers, so that may make a difference. I also subscibe to keeping the right wrist bent for as long as possible.

[Samick]

I have a question.....swing speed/club head speed being equal, wouldnt the softer shaft be more efficient and therefore result in more ball speed? Therefore, if a person switched from a XX shaft, to a Reg. energy transfer would be alot better and generate more distance?

I realize your experiment was to measure the clubhead speed.....did you measure ball speed as well?

just curious.

[Chieflongtee]

After 10 years of the 10 finger grip, you want me to suddenly use the overlap and get meaningful results?

I have hit a few shots in that time with my old overlap grip, but have not measured the SS. I feel like I have no control over the club and the ball invariably goes right, waaaaaay right.

Why do you feel the overlap goes farther? Keep in mind that my 10 finger grip is across the palm and not in the base of the fingers, so that may make a difference. I also subscibe to keeping the right wrist bent for as long as possible.

Don't want you to switch. I have tried both. I feel that the overlap generates a little more since the hinge is shorter. Again it is a feel thing. Question about your grip size: Is your grip the same size under the left as it is on the right or it tapers off?

[BC MIST]

Don't want you to switch. I have tried both. I feel that the overlap generates a little more since the hinge is shorter. Again it is a feel thing. Question about your grip size: Is your grip the same size under the left as it is on the right or it tapers off?

My grips have evolved from tennis racket size to one that does not take me 20 minutes to wrap the tape under. I now use a Lamkin Crossline Jumbo, with 15, 11, 7 and 5 layers of 2" tape, wrapped from the bottom (right hand) up.

[BC MIST]

I have a question.....swing speed/club head speed being equal, wouldnt the softer shaft be more efficient and therefore result in more ball speed? Therefore, if a person switched from a XX shaft, to a Reg. energy transfer would be alot better and generate more distance?
I realize your experiment was to measure the clubhead speed.....did you measure ball speed as well?

My Beltmate calculates swing speed only. I gather that ball speed is simply 1.5 X club head speed, assuming perfect, sweet spot contact. Please correct me if I am wrong.

So my 96 mph average would yield a ball speed of 144 mph.

Why would the softer shaft be more efficient? Why would more energy be transferred to the ball,(from a softer shaft) resulting in greater distance? So are you suggesting that their is an optimal bend that must be put on the shaft, to achieve maximum energy transfer? That is, a slow swing needs a softer butt section to load the shaft, while a fast swinger needs a stiffer butt to prevent overloading it.

If the golf shaft actually had energy loaded into at at the start of the downswing, then, the more the shaft bent at the start down, the more energy would be transferred to the ball when it unloaded. Therefore, everyone should play the most flexible shaft possible.

But, the shaft does NOT load and then unload. Tom Wishon says that the shaft bends at the start down in the 12:00 to 6:00 plane, AND it bends FORWARD into the ball at impact in the 3:00 to 9:00 plane. This means that the shaft has rotated 90*and cannot catapault the ball down the fairway. If this is true, then it does NOT matter how stiff the shaft is, as my swing mechanics, strength, etc., determine my swing speed, not the shaft. And this is what my "experiment" confirmed. Since ball speed, assuming perfect impact, is a function of club head speed and club head loft at impact (assume loft at impact is constant) the faster is my CHS, the higher is the ball speed, on a linear graph.

The flexibility of the tip section of the shaft would have a small affect on ball speed in that a soft tip will increase the loft at impact and a stiff one will increase it less than the soft, so depending on the swing speed of the golfer, ball speed could vary. But again, I am assuming constant loft at impact, as the question centres around energy transfer from the various flexes, not loft. So while some experts have said that the shaft loads energy, some say that it does not.

Now, these comments may prove that I know squat about ball speed, and I welcome comments from those who do.

[Samick]

Ok. So your assuming square contact with all shafts that all have the same trajectory, spin rate, ball speed.....etc....I guess thats fair enough.

I was only asking because alot of people have had very stiff shafts and more often then not hit fades/slices that go short. Then, if they use a softer flex shaft, it can "come around" so to speak and transfer the energy more effieciently to the ball (not a glancing blow like a slice) therefore create more ball speed. Generally speaking of course.

I'm not questioning your experiment, I was just asking if you measured ball speed too.

What about trajectories and such? Was this experiment outside on a range? I'm just curious is all.

[Chieflongtee]

More questions. When you switched to the 10 finger 10 years ago grip did your scoring significantly improve? Also when using the overlap grip the club rests in the fingers of the right hand. When using the 10 finger grip the club rests at the base of the palm. Do your fingers rest at the base of the palm or in the middle of the palm. Is your overbuilt grip equivalent to a 4 1/2 tennis grip?

["Richard"]

who cares about the swing speed, all that matters should be the launch angle and the spin on the ball...

[Started2k3]

who cares about the swing speed, all that matters should be the launch angle and the spin on the ball...

Out of curiosity, what are you studying in school?

[BC MIST]

More questions. When you switched to the 10 finger 10 years ago grip did your scoring significantly improve? Also when using the overlap grip the club rests in the fingers of the right hand. When using the 10 finger grip the club rests at the base of the palm. Do your fingers rest at the base of the palm or in the middle of the palm. Is your overbuilt grip equivalent to a 4 1/2 tennis grip?

When I switched 10 years ago, my ball striking improved and frankly, I cannot recall how much my scoring improved, but it did a little. I was at Mississippi at the time. Then, I considered myself a poor putter and it wasn't until I graduated to bent grass greens that I realized that I was a lot better than I thought.

My right hand grip is more across the palm and I do NOT know what a 4 1/2 grip is.

[BC MIST]

Good point!

Do you know of where one could find a matrix or chart to help identify the type of shaft one may require for optimum performance based on their swing type?

You may find this information on Tom Wishon's website, and his 2006 catalogue definitely contains a description of the transition, tempo and release positions, that help determine a more ideal shaft for you.

[jvincent]

My right hand grip is more across the palm and I do NOT know what a 4 1/2 grip is.

Tennis grips are measured according to their circumference. A 4 1/2 grip has a 4 1/2 inch circumference.