Unplayable

[Kilroy]

If a player hits again from the tee and does not declare it a provisional ball (or declare the other ball unplayable), what is the second ball deemed to be according to the rules? A provvy or substituted ball?

If not declared a provisional the second ball is in play. Now if you find your original you cannot play it even if it is playable.

You can declare a ball uplayable anywhere at any time. Even in the fairway if you want.

[Gary Hill]

OK, so does that mean that if you hit a tee shot into the woods, you technically can't declare it unplayable there and then, and your second ball is implicitly a provisional?

Absolutely not.

If you hit a tee shot deep into the woods, you can declare the ball unplayable and re-hit from the tee. Your second tee ball is immediately the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance. This prevents anyone from finding your original ball and forcing you to play it from an impossible place as is the case with a provisional ball.

[AAA]

If a player hits again from the tee and does not declare it a provisional ball (or declare the other ball unplayable), what is the second ball deemed to be according to the rules? A provvy or substituted ball?

It is a substituted ball. See the definition of Substituted Ball.
A provisional can only be a provisional if the player uses the word provisional or says he is playing under rule 27-2

[Gary Hill]

If a player hits again from the tee and does not declare it a provisional ball (or declare the other ball unplayable), what is the second ball deemed to be according to the rules?

The second ball is deemed to be the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance and the original ball is deemed to be lost. See Rule 27.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I drop a ball in the rough and take two penalty strokes. There's not much you can do. It's kind of like you hit another and did the same thing but not quite as bad. If I were to shoot the round of my life after taking this sort of drop it would be a drag since I know the round is unofficial, but that's life. It's good to have a prov out there, but that can get out of hand as well on a bad day.

There's a bunch of rules regarding lost balls that are difficult to observe on public courses and don't really directly relate to how many strokes it takes you to hole out 18. Some (if not all) are there to keep you from having two balls in play and picking the best.

[Gary Hill]

I drop a ball in the rough and take two penalty strokes.

So you are lying 3 up the fairway instead of going back and hitting 3 off the tee.

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

What is to say that when you go back you won't hit the second tee ball into the woods.

Or the third or the fourth or the fifth.

What is to say that a provisional ball wont be into the woods or your second provisional or your third or your fourth.

How come nobody drops a ball in the rough and takes six penalty strokes?

The only way to know how many strokes it takes you to play is to actually play the strokes.

[Wknd_Warrior]

So you are lying 3 up the fairway instead of going back and hitting 3 off the tee.

Actually it's 3 in the rough, but that's ceside the point

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

It's not really

What is to say that when you go back you won't hit the second tee ball into the woods.

Or the third or the fourth or the fifth.

What is to say that a provisional ball wont be into the woods or your second provisional or your third or your fourth.

No one, we aren't talking about that, we are talking about getting out there and you don't have a ball in play and you aren't going to drag the whole course through making your game official by walking back to the tee.

How come nobody drops a ball in the rough and takes six penalty strokes?

Because it's silly

The only way to know how many strokes it takes you to play is to actually play the strokes.

No argument there

[Gary Hill]

How come nobody drops a ball in the rough and takes six penalty strokes?

Because it's silly

That is exactly the point I was trying to make.

You take two penalty strokes and that is just as silly as taking six penalty strokes or no penalty strokes.

[Kiwi battler]

If not declared a provisional the second ball is in play. Now if you find your original you cannot play it even if it is playable.

You can declare a ball uplayable anywhere at any time. Even in the fairway if you want.

I believe you cannot declare a ball unplayable in a water hazard

[AAA]

I believe you cannot declare a ball unplayable in a water hazard

Correct.

[Wknd_Warrior]

You take two penalty strokes and that is just as silly as taking six penalty strokes or no penalty strokes.

Whatever, I disagree but I'm not going to try and spell it out again.. You're right in that it's all outside of the rules.

[AAA]

Whatever, I disagree but I'm not going to try and spell it out again.. You're right in that it's all outside of the rules.

This of course is a rules forum

[Wknd_Warrior]

ya, and I'm going to be wrong as long as I continue this conversation.

Sorry Gary, your rule book thumping got under my skin to be honest. I know the rules and I know what "could have been" etc... It haunts me when it happens and for my own personal "best scores" I know the round is botched, but I find a way to card some kind of number when I go out, it is for fun after all.

[Kiwi]

To ALL, I'm pleased and surprised by all the chatter on this. Means I'm not alone, either in the woods or in a fog about the rules. With all due respect to all contributers I'll take Dan K's advice, mark an "X", use the ESC and hit a dropped ball so I can finish out the hole. If playing by the rules, for money or honour then I'll hit a Provisional whenever there is a chance I'm lost. Usually I hit the opposite on my provvy shot so should be able to play that one. Kiwi

[Kilroy]

"Player 'B' rocks!" As we say after he stripes his provisional long down the middle and he seriously considers abandoning the search for "player A's" ball.