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  1. #91
    Moderator Big Johnny69 is on a distinguished road Big Johnny69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Started2k3
    Lets see take any par4:
    Stroke or Medal play:
    Tee shot, approach, putt, putt.
    Match play:
    Tee shot, approach, putt, putt (or conceded).

    Not much difference in my mind.

    The course will determine your tee and approach shots. Your putting will depend on how well you did the last two. And your actions are completely independent from the actions of the other players.

    In any golf competition you cannot point to one stroke that caused the player to win. Possible response: But X player birdied the last hole to win by a stroke. But was it actually the birdie on the last hole which won it or was it the birdie on the 10th on Thursday, because both have the same impact on the total score.
    I have to disagree here. Match and medal play are two very different ways to play a round of golf. In medal play you are just trying to shoot the lowest score you possibly can, regardless of what your opponent does. But in match play, you decisions are based almost exclusively on what your opponent does. If you're behind and they make a great approach and its getting late in your match, you have to answer. And maybe you wouldn't normally attack a certain green, but in this case you have to. Or you are making a comeback and put an approach shot in the water. That could have lost you the match. But one of the major differences between the two are that you don't necessarily have to shoot the lowest possible score. You blow up for a 10 on a certain hole, you are no further behind than one hole. You don't have to make up 7 strokes, just win one hole and go from there. Two different ways to play the game, both exciting in their own right.
    "A life lived in fear of the new and the untried is not a life lived to its fullest." M.Pare 10/09/08

  2. #92
    Competitor Hank Hill is on a distinguished road Hank Hill's Avatar
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    I know i'm a bit late but YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHH!!!! EUROPE WON!!!!

    I had to go away for the weekend so I taped the whole lot and watched it last night (all night). What a great victory for my fellow Europeans. Lump in the throat at the end there with the reception Darren Clarke got.

  3. #93
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 LobWedge is on a distinguished road LobWedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Started2k3
    Lets see take any par4:
    Stroke or Medal play:
    Tee shot, approach, putt, putt.
    Match play:
    Tee shot, approach, putt, putt (or conceded).

    Not much difference in my mind.

    The course will determine your tee and approach shots. Your putting will depend on how well you did the last two. And your actions are completely independent from the actions of the other players.

    In any golf competition you cannot point to one stroke that caused the player to win. Possible response: But X player birdied the last hole to win by a stroke. But was it actually the birdie on the last hole which won it or was it the birdie on the 10th on Thursday, because both have the same impact on the total score.
    Okay, just for the sake of arguement, let's play that game for a minute.

    Let's say that you and I are opponents in an 18 hole match. You hit your approach shot to the 1st hole and you come up short. So, you chip on and leave yourself 3 feet below the hole. I tell you to pick it up. You're probably thinking, "nice guy" for doing that. I'm thinking that you'll most likely make it anyway. Move ahead to the back 9, maybe we're even after 14 or 15 holes. I've been "mister nice guy" all day, giving you 3 & 4 footers, maybe the occasional 5-6 footer.

    Now were on the 16th hole and you've left yourself with a slippery downhill left to right 4-footer to halve the hole. You've probably got it in the back of your mind that I'll give it to you because I've been doing it all day. Nah. I think I'll make you put this one. You've now played 3/4 of a round without having to putt anything within 5 feet, and now you have to drain one of the toughest putts in golf to stay even. Maybe you'll make it. Good on ya. But I'm betting you won't. Now let's say that you miss, and you're down 1. No problem, right? Except for the fact that you only have 2 holes left to try and erase that deficit.

    If you want to win this match outright, you have to win the last 2 holes. All I have to do is halve the 17th and we're done. Pressure's now on you. Now, maybe the 17th is a par-3 over water with the pin tucked right behind a deep bunker. 99 times out of 100 you wouldn't even think of going at the pin in that situation, but now you pretty much have to. I'm aiming at the centre of the green, and making 2 putts for par...

    Anyway, that's what I'm talking about. Match play is a mental exercise. A good match player will use every legal tactic he can in order to beat his opponent. That doesn't happen in stroke play. You don't have 72 holes to make up ground if you're behind. You have 18, or less.
    When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.

  4. #94
    Hall of Fame jvincent is on a distinguished road jvincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Started2k3
    The course will determine your tee and approach shots. Your putting will depend on how well you did the last two. And your actions are completely independent from the actions of the other players.
    I'll have to answer yes an no to this one.

    If there is a risky tee shot approach to the green and you are hitting first, you have two options, hit the safe shot, aka easy par, or hit the aggressive shot, aka potential birdie if successful or scramble for par if not.

    Now if you are hitting second, you may need/want to adjust your game plan if your opponent has either dunked it in the water or hit it to 4 feet.

  5. #95
    Monday Qualifier Started2k3 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by LobWedge
    Okay, just for the sake of arguement, let's play that game for a minute.

    Let's say that you and I are opponents in an 18 hole match. You hit your approach shot to the 1st hole and you come up short. So, you chip on and leave yourself 3 feet below the hole. I tell you to pick it up. You're probably thinking, "nice guy" for doing that. I'm thinking that you'll most likely make it anyway. Move ahead to the back 9, maybe we're even after 14 or 15 holes. I've been "mister nice guy" all day, giving you 3 & 4 footers, maybe the occasional 5-6 footer.

    Now were on the 16th hole and you've left yourself with a slippery downhill left to right 4-footer to halve the hole. You've probably got it in the back of your mind that I'll give it to you because I've been doing it all day. Nah. I think I'll make you put this one. You've now played 3/4 of a round without having to putt anything within 5 feet, and now you have to drain one of the toughest putts in golf to stay even. Maybe you'll make it. Good on ya. But I'm betting you won't. Now let's say that you miss, and you're down 1. No problem, right? Except for the fact that you only have 2 holes left to try and erase that deficit.

    If you want to win this match outright, you have to win the last 2 holes. All I have to do is halve the 17th and we're done. Pressure's now on you. Now, maybe the 17th is a par-3 over water with the pin tucked right behind a deep bunker. 99 times out of 100 you wouldn't even think of going at the pin in that situation, but now you pretty much have to. I'm aiming at the centre of the green, and making 2 putts for par...

    Anyway, that's what I'm talking about. Match play is a mental exercise. A good match player will use every legal tactic he can in order to beat his opponent. That doesn't happen in stroke play. You don't have 72 holes to make up ground if you're behind. You have 18, or less.
    My point is that the pressure/stress is fabricated by the mind. I try to remove the pressure from my mind by thinking "no one will die from this shot so why worry or fret over it".

    Maybe next year I will try match play, and I hope I am proven wrong.

    By the way, the smart move on the par3 three that you described is to get on the same line but inside of you. That way you show me the way to the hole. This would give me the best opportunity to birdie the hole. But then again with my 23 handicap I would only need par the hole to win it.
    Back at it.

  6. #96
    Fairway Junkie sharkshooter is on a distinguished road sharkshooter's Avatar
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    Having never played match-play, I am probably not qualified to comment, but I will anyway.

    I see the difference being that in match play, it is not OK to come in second.

  7. #97
    Moderator Big Johnny69 is on a distinguished road Big Johnny69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Started2k3
    My point is that the pressure/stress is fabricated by the mind. I try to remove the pressure from my mind by thinking "no one will die from this shot so why worry or fret over it".

    Maybe next year I will try match play, and I hope I am proven wrong.

    By the way, the smart move on the par3 three that you described is to get on the same line but inside of you. That way you show me the way to the hole. This would give me the best opportunity to birdie the hole. But then again with my 23 handicap I would only need par the hole to win it.
    Of course no one is going to die from you taking a golf shot. But perhaps you have a couple of bucks riding on a game with a buddy who you've never beaten before and you now have a chance to beat him. Certain scenarios in match play will make you think differently for sure, if you get into the game. I once played my buddy for a beer and a bag of chips. And damn it, if I wasn't pissed he beat me on the 18th hole to win 1 UP. Just gets the competitive juices flowing.

    Best match I was ever a part of was last year at my club. I was in the semi-finals against a player to which I had to give two strokes. I went into the match thinking if I shoot 75 I win going away. I shot a 73 and lost 2&1. He tied his best round of the year, a 72. We made 7 or 8 birdies between the two of us. Most enjoyable round of golf I've ever played.
    "A life lived in fear of the new and the untried is not a life lived to its fullest." M.Pare 10/09/08

  8. #98
    Monday Qualifier Started2k3 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvincent
    I'll have to answer yes an no to this one.

    If there is a risky tee shot approach to the green and you are hitting first, you have two options, hit the safe shot, aka easy par, or hit the aggressive shot, aka potential birdie if successful or scramble for par if not.

    Now if you are hitting second, you may need/want to adjust your game plan if your opponent has either dunked it in the water or hit it to 4 feet.
    If you are hitting first then you follow your game plan. BTW hit the aggressive shot because your expected score is lower.

    If you hit second and your opponent has dunked it in the water, then I don't think your game plan would ever be to follow suit. If the opponent hit it to 4ft, then unless you get it into the 1 putt range you have pretty much lost the hole anyway.
    Back at it.

  9. #99
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 LobWedge is on a distinguished road LobWedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Hill
    I know i'm a bit late but YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHH!!!! EUROPE WON!!!!

    I had to go away for the weekend so I taped the whole lot and watched it last night (all night). What a great victory for my fellow Europeans. Lump in the throat at the end there with the reception Darren Clarke got.
    Hank, I'm right there with you. It was a brilliant display of teamwork by the Euros, and sportsmanship from both sides. Woosie coudn't have made two better captain's picks. Clarke and Westwood were stellar.
    When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.

  10. #100
    Monday Qualifier Started2k3 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Johnston
    Of course no one is going to die from you taking a golf shot. But perhaps you have a couple of bucks riding on a game with a buddy who you've never beaten before and you now have a chance to beat him. Certain scenarios in match play will make you think differently for sure, if you get into the game. I once played my buddy for a beer and a bag of chips. And damn it, if I wasn't pissed he beat me on the 18th hole to win 1 UP. Just gets the competitive juices flowing.
    I play skins (few bucks with handicaps) with my bosses. At first I was all worried about the $ and stroke allowances for each hole but I realized that it doesn't matter I was only making it seem important in my mind. Once I came to this conclusion I started playing a lot better and never again paniced over a birdie putt. One of my bosses tries to "get in my head" when there were several skins riding on a hole by saying stuff like "get it close partner" or after I make a putt saying "Ho, Hum" in response to my lack of reaction. It no longer works.

    Competitive Juices Flowing? This is exactly my point. Why would you want your adrenaline up when you are trying to putt? "Fight or flight" responses are not good when you are trying to calmly putt. If you remain calm and somewhat mentally detached from the fabricated pressure, then you will do a lot better.

    Geoff if you ever get back out on the course (I hope you do) add this to your pre-shot routine or while you play. "Breath in and out a few times slowly and deeply while looking around at the world around you (trees, grass, water, clouds), and clear your mind by not focusing on anything in particular but observing everything."
    Back at it.

  11. #101
    Moderator Big Johnny69 is on a distinguished road Big Johnny69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Started2k3
    I play skins (few bucks with handicaps) with my bosses. At first I was all worried about the $ and stroke allowances for each hole but I realized that it doesn't matter I was only making it seem important in my mind. Once I came to this conclusion I started playing a lot better and never again paniced over a birdie putt. One of my bosses tries to "get in my head" when there were several skins riding on a hole by saying stuff like "get it close partner" or after I make a putt saying "Ho, Hum" in response to my lack of reaction. It no longer works.

    Competitive Juices Flowing? This is exactly my point. Why would you want your adrenaline up when you are trying to putt? "Fight or flight" responses are not good when you are trying to calmly putt. If you remain calm and somewhat mentally detached from the fabricated pressure, then you will do a lot better.

    Geoff if you ever get back out on the course (I hope you do) add this to your pre-shot routine or while you play. "Breath in and out a few times slowly and deeply while looking around at the world around you (trees, grass, water, clouds), and clear your mind by not focusing on anything in particular but observing everything."
    What I meant by competitive juices was that it might keep you interested in the round of golf. Something a little different then just showing up at the course for a ho-hum, regular round. Just meant it as a way to change it up and peak some interest.

    As for the pre-shot routine, been there done that. I've never really had a pre-shot routine and (a long time ago ) was successful on the golf course. I kind of went with what felt good that day; one practice swing, no practice swing, a couple of waggles etc. Whatever seemed right for the day. Only routine I keep is my putting routine. Read the putt, line up my ball, two practice strokes, look at the hole, get in address position, one more look at the hole, make the putt.
    "A life lived in fear of the new and the untried is not a life lived to its fullest." M.Pare 10/09/08

  12. #102
    Hall of Fame jvincent is on a distinguished road jvincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Started2k3
    If you are hitting first then you follow your game plan. BTW hit the aggressive shot because your expected score is lower.

    If you hit second and your opponent has dunked it in the water, then I don't think your game plan would ever be to follow suit. If the opponent hit it to 4ft, then unless you get it into the 1 putt range you have pretty much lost the hole anyway.
    A lot depends on what your normal style of play is.

    I play would is graciously described as "aggressive" golf. I will fire at any and every pin. If I'm "on" with my ball striking, it's a long day for my opponent in match play because I'm going to have a lot of chances at birdie and just hitting the green isn't going to be enough for him.

    However, if my oppenent has dunked his approach I will occaisionally hit the layup on the par 5.

    The situation where your opponent is 4 feet from the pin is not usually the one to worry about. It's when he keeps hitting the middle of every green that it starts to get troubling.

  13. #103
    Fairway Junkie sharkshooter is on a distinguished road sharkshooter's Avatar
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    I liked this article...

    http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.a...0&select=20817

    It includes this gem ...

    Phil Mickelson has gone back on vacation, if he ever left.

  14. #104
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 LobWedge is on a distinguished road LobWedge's Avatar
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    Just another Associated Press hack who's not even good enough (or hasn't got the balls) to put his/her name on the story. If the Americans were dominating the Ryder Cup, this same dufus would be saying that it's "the greatest thing since sliced bread". Match play has been around a hell of a lot longer than stroke play. It's easy for a tour player to hide a bogey amongst a bunch of birdies, over 72 holes. There's more room for error. Mistakes in match play are much harder to cover up.

    Stroke play was invented for spectators and TV, plain and simple. I'm not saying that stroke play is bad. As a fan I like to watch the game unfold over four rounds, but it bothers me when the media gets this "I didn't like this game anyway. I wasn't really trying. Stupid game. Whatever." attitude whenever they get beaten at something. It unfairly detracts from the other team's victory.
    When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.

  15. #105
    Moderator Big Johnny69 is on a distinguished road Big Johnny69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LobWedge
    Just another Associated Press hack who's not even good enough (or hasn't got the balls) to put his/her name on the story. If the Americans were dominating the Ryder Cup, this same dufus would be saying that it's "the greatest thing since sliced bread". Match play has been around a hell of a lot longer than stroke play. It's easy for a tour player to hide a bogey amongst a bunch of birdies, over 72 holes. There's more room for error. Mistakes in match play are much harder to cover up.

    Stroke play was invented for spectators and TV, plain and simple. I'm not saying that stroke play is bad. As a fan I like to watch the game unfold over four rounds, but it bothers me when the media gets this "I didn't like this game anyway. I wasn't really trying. Stupid game. Whatever." attitude whenever they get beaten at something. It unfairly detracts from the other team's victory.
    Exactly, and especially if you are only playing an 18 hole match and not 36. No room for errors. Adds to the excitement.
    "A life lived in fear of the new and the untried is not a life lived to its fullest." M.Pare 10/09/08

  16. #106
    Must be Single mberube is on a distinguished road mberube's Avatar
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    I don’t agree. You can make a 10 on a hole in match play and you are only down one hole. Make a 10 during an OVGA stroke play tournament, you’re dead unless you can make 6 or 7 straight birdies.

    The fun thing about match play is that when you screw-up on one hole, you can concede that hole, pick up the ball and not finish the hole. This sits alot better in your mind when you move on to the next tee then having to finish a brutal and embarrassing hole in stroke play.

    Mike
    Strive for perfection, but never expect it!

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