What's the ruling?

[Big Johnny69]

Here's one for you rules experts. There was a bit of confusion this weekend at my club during the second round of club championship.

Our group was playing the 13th hole. The first guy to hit proceeds to pull his ball left. We watch to see if it clears the pond. We don't see it bounce on the other side of the pond but we definately hear that distinct noise of a ball hitting into some soft soil (the water was very low in the pond so any ball hitting the bank would get a little embedded). Walking up the hole the player decides to play a ball at the point where his ball crossed into the hazard and proceeds to hit up to just short of the green. He did this thinking he couldn't play his ball from the hazard and to save time. But upon arriving at the other side of the pond he realizes he can play his original ball and proceeds to go down onto the bank and hack his ball out and scores a double bogey 6 on the hole.

This issue was brought up to the tourny commitee after the round. What is the correct ruling? Consensus was that once he hit that second ball, that was his ball in play.

[pvs1313]

if he was in the hazzard, and has chosen to take a drop, the dropped ball is in play now. other ball is dead.

[Big Johnny69]

That's what they all thought. And because he wasn't in the running for the title and the club really hates to DQ anyone they gave him a two stroke penalty. Really doesn't matter to me, but was just curious to see what the correct ruling was, which was what I thought it was.

[4jag]

Could he have declared his "dropped" ball a provisional just in case his "hazard" ball was playable?

[Kilroy]

No not in a hazzard, just if possibly lost or out of bounds.

[4jag]

No not in a hazzard, just if possibly lost or out of bounds.

Ok, so his only option was to walk around the hazard, search for his ball and if he can't find it go back to the other side of the hazard and take his drop.
Good to know - I thought you could declare a provisional whenever the location of your ball was in doubt including possibly being lost in a hazard.

[Big Johnny69]

A ball in a hazard is the only time you can't declare a provisional.

[AAA]

Could he have declared his "dropped" ball a provisional just in case his "hazard" ball was playable?

No. A provisional has to be played from the place that the original was played. In addition you can only declare that you are playing a provisional BEFORE you go forward to search for the original.

[AAA]

Ok, so his only option was to walk around the hazard, search for his ball and if he can't find it go back to the other side of the hazard and take his drop.
Good to know - I thought you could declare a provisional whenever the location of your ball was in doubt including possibly being lost in a hazard.

You can play a provisional if there is a possibility that you ball is lost outside a hazard. If there is reasonable evidence that it is in the hazard you can't.

[LobWedge]

This issue was brought up to the tourny commitee after the round. What is the correct ruling? Consensus was that once he hit that second ball, that was his ball in play.

The second ball was in play the moment he took his relief from the hazard and the ball left his hand from the drop. The first ball is now abandoned. If he signed for a lower score than he was entitled to for the round then he should have been disqualified. What if the leader had come in later and had done the same thing? "You can't disqualify me! You only gave him a 2 stroke penalty!" The rules apply the same, first place or last place. It's only fair.

Rule 15-3 states that the stroke that he played at his original ball that he "found" on the other side of the pond doesn't count because it was inside the hazard. However, because he holed out with the wrong ball and didn't go back and correct his error before playing a ball from the next teeing ground, he should have been disqualified.

[Gary Hill]

Could he have declared his "dropped" ball a provisional just in case his "hazard" ball was playable?

You cannot "drop" a provisional ball.

[Gary Hill]

A ball in a hazard is the only time you can't declare a provisional.

You may hit a provisional ball ONLY if the ball may be lost outside a water hazard or if the ball may be out of bounds.

[Gary Hill]

And because he wasn't in the running for the title and the club really hates to DQ anyone they gave him a two stroke penalty.

For breaching what Rule?

[AAA]

Assuming, from the post, that he didn't finish the hole with the second ball, he will have played a wrong ball when he played the original (after it was out of the hazard) incurring a 2 stroke penalty. If he didn't correct the error before making a stroke at the next teeing ground he is DQd.

[Shivas Irons]

Something similar happened in our club championship. One of my FC's hit a drive, couldn't find it, then walked back to the tee and re-hit, and when he was walking back up the fairway he found his first tee shot and played it.
I asked my other FC's what the ruling is, because I thought he had abandoned his first ball and shouldn't have played it.
One of my FC's then says "no, because on his way back to the tee box he said his second was a provisional" my other FC simply said "Come on, be nice"
I didn't bother arguing about it since the guy wasn't about to win or even come close, but i still think it was the wrong ruling.

[Big Johnny69]

Assuming, from the post, that he didn't finish the hole with the second ball, he will have played a wrong ball when he played the original (after it was out of the hazard) incurring a 2 stroke penalty. If he didn't correct the error before making a stroke at the next teeing ground he is DQd.

AAA you are correct in that assumption. But like I said, he wasn't in the running so they just assesed a two stroke penalty. I know he should've been DQ'd but this is what the tournament commitee agreed upon.

[LobWedge]

Something similar happened in our club championship. One of my FC's hit a drive, couldn't find it, then walked back to the tee and re-hit, and when he was walking back up the fairway he found his first tee shot and played it.
I asked my other FC's what the ruling is, because I thought he had abandoned his first ball and shouldn't have played it.
One of my FC's then says "no, because on his way back to the tee box he said his second was a provisional" my other FC simply said "Come on, be nice"
I didn't bother arguing about it since the guy wasn't about to win or even come close, but i still think it was the wrong ruling.

You can't leave the teeing ground to search for your ball and then go back and hit a provisional. You must declare and hit your provisional before leaving the tee. His second ball was in play, lying 3. The first ball was abandoned as soon as he made a stroke at his second ball, or if his 5 minutes had expired.

[Shivas Irons]

You can't leave the teeing ground to search for your ball and then go back and hit a provisional. You must declare and hit your provisional before leaving the tee. His second ball was in play, lying 3. The first ball was abandoned as soon as he made a stroke at his second ball, or if his 5 minutes had expired.

That's what I thought, but since i was told i wasn't "being nice" i decided not to argue about it.

[LobWedge]

That's what I thought, but since i was told i wasn't "being nice" i decided not to argue about it.

That's another thing that steams me.

Your fellow FC should have known better. "Being nice" or not has nothing to do with it. The rules are in place for the protection of the entire field. You were on the right track, your fellow FC should have kept his mouth shut. Things like that can come back to burn you, especially in a tournament.

[Shivas Irons]

The rules are in place for the protection of the entire field. You were on the right track, your fellow FC should have kept his mouth shut. Things like that can come back to burn you, especially in a tournament.

It kind of put me in a difficult position as it's my first year as member at this course and my FC's all knew each other. I didn't want to ruffle too many feathers but it bothered me enough that I went on to bogey that hole and triple the next. Maybe I should have asked my FC's to 'be nice' and put me down for 2 pars instead of a bogey and a triple.

[LobWedge]

It kind of put me in a difficult position as it's my first year as member at this course and my FC's all knew each other. I didn't want to ruffle too many feathers but it bothered me enough that I went on to bogey that hole and triple the next. Maybe I should have asked my FC's to 'be nice' and put me down for 2 pars instead of a bogey and a triple.

It's definitely not fun when you're faced with a situation like that.

I was playing in an OG Tour event a few years back at Pakenham. We were playing a 2-man team combined score and Mr. Kilbank was in the other 2-some in our group. My partner and I had both hit our approach shots towards the green. Mine was pin high left but in the rough down a small hill, and my partner's (who I didn't know very well) was just short of the green to the right. He was away first and he chipped up to about a foot. I turned away to pull my club and head over to my ball. As I was approaching it, I turned to look back at the hole just in time to see my partner tap in with the flagstick still in the hole. I just stopped and lowered my head looking down at my shoes because I knew what he had just done. When I looked back up Dan was staring at me because he knew too. My partner's par had just turned into a double bogey, and we had to explain why. My partner was pissed, and he complained that he didn't know the rule. Unfortunately that was no excuse, and we had to take a 2 stroke penalty. Thems the rules.