What's the penalty?

[Kilroy]

Here's one that came up yesterday in our Club Championship...

The player's ball is in a puddle in a bunker. The bunker is 2/3 puddle, there is some sand behind the puddle where it's wet but not what we'd consider casual water, all agree on this much.

The player drops his ball and it plugs right there - no bounce, no roll. He says " That's too high" and re-drops, then hits. I asked him what he meant by "It's too high" and he replied "It was plugged" So I asked him why a plugged lie in a bunker entitled him to a re-drop, and that there should be a penalty for what he did, but that I was unsure what the penalty was.

He questioned my assesment and played a second ball (re-dropping again) and scoring both balls (neither score included any penalty as he counted it) I told him that playing a second ball was unnessesary since the only question was if there was a penalty and how many strokes.

Unfortunately since it "did not matter" to the awards the issue was dropped by the club captain rather than making an attempt to resolve it.

To the ruling:
The player was entitled to drop in the bunker taking relief from casual water.

Once the player’s ball has been lifted, it is again in play when dropped or placed.

Lifting and re-dropping without cause would be improving your lie so it seems to fall under Rule 13. Ball Played as It Lies. Breech of rule in Stroke play — Two strokes.

Once improperly re-dropped the ball should have been put back in the original pitch mark made by the first drop. Since it was not, then he played from a wrong place. The penalty for playing from a wrong place is 2 strokes

So I count possibly 4 strokes penalty, but I'm not sure if both penalties should be applied. What say the rules gurus?

[covanant]

Im no rules expert by any means,but seems to me,there is no relief for a plugged ball in a hazard?
First drop should be the ball in play.

[Kilroy]

Yes that's true. I am trying to figure out the correct penalty to be assesed. Looks like 4 or 2 strokes.

[Gary Hill]

Lifting and re-dropping without cause would be improving your lie so it seems to fall under Rule 13. Ball Played as It Lies. Breach of Rule in Stroke play — Two strokes.

Could you be more specific about which part of Rule 13 you feel the player has breached?

Rule 13-1, Rule 13-2, Rule 13-3 or Rule 13-4?

Once improperly re-dropped the ball should have been put back in the original pitch mark made by the first drop. Since it was not, then he played from a wrong place. The penalty for playing from a wrong place is 2 strokes

20-7 Playing from Wrong Place
c. Stroke Play
If a competitor makes a stroke from a wrong place, he incurs a penalty of two strokes under the applicable Rule.

Could you tell me the applicable Rule to which you would apply this penalty?

[Kilroy]

I was trying to apply what happened to the rules. Since I could not find any reference to the specific situation

ie: a ball re-dropped and played not in accordance with the rules

13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play

A player must not improve or allow to be improved: the position or lie of his ball

He picked it up and redropped, improving his lie. but it could also be

13-1. General

The ball must be played as it lies, except as otherwise provided in the Rules. (Ball at rest moved — see Rule 18.) [/quote] The ball was in play and he "moved" it. 20-7. Playing from Wrong Place a. General A player has played from a wrong place if he makes a stroke with his ball in play: (i) on a part of the course where the Rules do not permit a stroke to be played or a ball to be dropped or placed; or (ii) when the Rules require a dropped ball to be redropped or a moved ball to be replaced. Since he did not replace the ball to where it belonged (ie in the plug mark from the original drop) he played from a "Wrong place"

[BC MIST]

Unfortunately since it "did not matter" to the awards the issue was dropped by the club captain rather than making an attempt to resolve it.

As the player would be penalized for what he did, the above lack of action reaction by the captain brings up another issue which infuriates me. The player was obviously dinking around with the rules,(cheating) trying to create a suituation that was favourable to himself. Your "calling" him requires a ruling by someone in charge.

If the player signed his scorecard without the appropriate penalties added, he would be disqualified for signing for a score on a hole, lower than what he actually had. By making the correct ruling, after looking up the rule, of course, the captain would have sent a message, not only to the player involved, but also to the rest of the participants that this kind of action would be dealt with appropriately. Posting a list of the results, with a DQ beside the player's name, would send the correct message.

Instead, by doing nothing the message is, go ahead and cheat.

[Gary Hill]

2 strokes under Rule 18-2.

[Kilroy]

18-2. By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment

a. General When a player’s ball is in play, if: (i) the player, his partner or either of their caddies lifts or moves it, touches it purposely (except with a club in the act of addressing it) or causes it to move except as permitted by a Rule, or (ii) equipment of the player or his partner causes the ball to move, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke. If the ball is moved, it must be replaced unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of the club for the stroke and the stroke is made.

OK so one for the funky drop, but should it not be 2 for failing to replace it and playing fropm a wrong place? Total would be 3.

How do you come to 2 strokes? What is the second stroke for?

[Kilroy]

Why is rule 18-2 more applicable than 13-2? He said it was done because it was plugged, therefore the intent was to improve the lie. I believe he thought he was entitled to do so, but none the less, he did do it for that reason.

[AAA]

OK so one for the funky drop, but should it not be 2 for failing to replace it and playing fropm a wrong place? Total would be 3.

How do you come to 2 strokes? What is the second stroke for?

Dan
You didn't read through to the end of the rule.


*Penalty for Breach of Rule:
Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.
*If a player who is required to replace a ball fails to do so, he incurs the general penalty for breach of Rule 18. There is no additional penalty under Rule 18, except in the case of a wrongly substituted ball (Rule 15-2).

[AAA]

Why is rule 18-2 more applicable than 13-2? He said it was done because it was plugged, therefore the intent was to improve the lie. I believe he thought he was entitled to do so, but none the less, he did do it for that reason.

Which infraction came first? Touching the ball or improving his lie.

[Kilroy]

Ooops. I'll get a slap from Gary for that!

Thanks to Gary and AAA for helping to get a grip on what was a pretty puzzling one for me and a few others around the table.

[Kilroy]

Which infraction came first? Touching the ball or improving his lie.

He picked it up and re-dropped, thus improving his lie so "touching the ball" would be my call.

[Gary Hill]

How could a player lift his ball without touching it?

The player did NOT improve his lie.