The PGA Championship

[Andru]

as with any sport, being there live is 100 times better than watching it on TV. Heck you can watch every week on TV but you might get to see one live event if you're lucky and get all caught up in the aura of the event (and even more so if its a major).

That being said, it was boring TV and domination by Tiger is not good for golf. Right now, he's back to the point where he is dominating so much, everyone else is playing for second. Saturday's round was 10x better to watch than sundays.

Well that depends,

Do you mean ratings? It's great for golf.

Do you mean general interest? It's terrific for golf.

Do you mean participation? Again good for golf.

Do you mean Tiger setting the bar higher so other players will have to strive for more?
That seems pretty good as well.

There is one negative. If Tiger is not at an event. It's second tier. That's dissapointing.

[jeffc]

Competition is good for golf. Heck, it's good for any sport.

I'll bet the ratings dropped dramatically on the back 9 when Tiger had it in the bag. I know I turned it off after about the 11th hole.

I'm not sure how Tiger dominating is good for golf. It just means the results, especially in the majors become a lot more predictable. That in itself is not good for golf.

[Hacker]

The ratings are significantly HIGHER when Tiger is in contention than when he isn't. This has been proven time after time.....it seems that the majority of the viewing public want to watch Tiger win.

I'm not sure why folks are upset, I consider myself lucky that I have an opportunity to see the man who will eventually own every significant golf record play in his prime.

I didn't get to see many of the older Hockey greats like Gordie H and the Richard brothers. I didn't get to see Jim Brown or Jim Thorpe. I was 3 when the Summit Series was played in 1972. I don't remember seeing Ali in his hayday, but at least I'll be able to say that I saw the greatest golfer of all time dominiate at the very peak of his career.

We are witnessing history in the making folks and I for one LOVE IT!

[Andru]

The ratings are significantly HIGHER when Tiger is in contention than when he isn't. This has been proven time after time.....it seems that the majority of the viewing public want to watch Tiger win.

I'm not sure why folks are upset, I consider myself lucky that I have an opportunity to see the man who will eventually own every significant golf record play in his prime.

I didn't get to see many of the older Hockey greats like Gordie H and the Richard brothers. I didn't get to see Jim Brown or Jim Thorpe. I was 3 when the Summit Series was played in 1972. I don't remember seeing Ali in his hayday, but at least I'll be able to say that I saw the greatest golfer of all time dominiate at the very peak of his career.

We are witnessing history in the making folks and I for one LOVE IT!

Me too. If Tiger showed up and decided to play the marshes ot Eagel Creek and everyone was allowed to come and watch. You know a ton of people would show up just to see Tiger play a meaningless round of golf. this was the final round of the PGA.

Watching Tiger bring Medinah to it's knees and seeing all the members cringe as Tiger made birdie after birdie. We saw a few members on the course and they were just hoping Tiger wouldn't make it to 20 under. They take that stuff personally. It's truly hilarious.

The Awards ceremony was really cool. he said some awesome things. I'm not sure if you got to see it but he made a stronge tribute to the fans and gave us a little victory lap because the crowd on the green blocked most of our views.

[Indio]

I r4eally don't know why people root against Tiger. (although it might be for the same reason I always pump my fist in glee when Phil screws up)

I absolutely love to see Tiger hit a 'bad' drive or get into trouble greenside and watch the creativity in this man. He is an awesome golfer and I want to see him break every record that ever existed and even create some new ones. I was disappointed when he got his 3rd bogey of the tournament and I believe at some point he will go bogey free during a tournament. I was also hoping he would finish 20 under..... Give me Tiger on the screen all the time, I don't have a problem with it what so ever.

[mberube]

Some of you continually say that nobody challenges Tiger on the final day and the players give him the win. Tiger played 68 on Sunday. That makes it very difficult for anybody to beat him. It would have taken a 67 by Luke, a 65 by Weir (course record) and so on. Tiger played 4 under on the front nine. From there he was on cruise control. Luke was the only player that was in position to beat him. If Luke had matched his front nine score, I guaranty you that Eldrick would have played a few strokes better then his 68. He is that good.

Players now that they have to go low to beat him and that is the reason why they don’t play a good Sunday round when he is the lead. Scott and Micheel played well cause they new they had no chance of winning unless Tiger pulled off a Mickelson.

[jeffc]

I'm not rooting against him, I'd just rather see things close with a tight finish then Tiger (or anyone for that matter) blowing away the field.

[mberube]

I'm not rooting against him, I'd just rather see things close with a tight finish then Tiger (or anyone for that matter) blowing away the field.

I would also like to see someone step up their game and challenge Tiger but nobody is that good.

I was cheering for Sergio, Luke, Weir and Tiger on Sunday. I would have loved to see these 4 guys battle it out till the end. The problem is that the runner-ups don’t have the game to force a great round when it counts.

[Andru]

I'm not rooting against him, I'd just rather see things close with a tight finish then Tiger (or anyone for that matter) blowing away the field.

As mberube described ( and it was a great point ) Tiger would have to shoot a bad round to bring all those guys into the mix except Donald and we give him a pass because it's his first major. When people say it's a leanring experience to play with Tiger in the final group they're not kidding. There's 15,000 people watching you. It's something you have to learn. Tiger learned it at an early age. Just think about how you feel when there's 20 people on the first tee watching you.

[sharkshooter]

Just think about how you feel when there's 20 people on the first tee watching you.

I'd ask my playing partners to turn away - if I thought I could find my ball by myself.

[davezz]

Jack Nicklaus ...had to win his major against ..Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Lee Trevino, Johnny Miller, Tom Watson ...Tiger as not had a great golfer to compete against since 1997 ....

[mberube]

He does but Tiger is that much better then Jack was. Jack never blew the competition away like TW does consistently.

[Andru]

Jack Nicklaus ...had to win his major against ..Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Lee Trevino, Johnny Miller, Tom Watson ...Tiger as not had a great golfer to compete against since 1997 ....

That's just nonsense.

I did this statistical comparison already and it's just fluff boomers liewk to spew about the good old days. The truth is Goosen, Els, Mickleson, VJ are all worthy opponents and multiple major winners. No doubt they'll win more before their careers are done.

Tiger is really really special he's not playing stiffs as you like to refer them as. Tiger has a better overall package than Nicklaus. Ball Striking, Short game Putting and they're tied in the mental toughness category. You could give Nicklaus the edge in Driving. but Tiger's starting to get that going now too. In 5 years this won't be a debate.

[mberube]

That's just nonsense.

I did this statistical comparison already and it's just fluff boomers liewk to spew about the good old days. The truth is Goosen, Els, Mickleson, VJ are all worthy opponents and multiple major winners. No doubt they'll win more before their careers are done.

Tiger is really really special he's not playing stiffs as you like to refer them as. Tiger has a better overall package than Nicklaus. Ball Striking, Short game Putting and they're tied in the mental toughness category. You could give Nicklaus the edge in Driving. but Tiger's starting to get that going now too. In 5 years this won't be a debate.

Andru, make it 5 years. In the next 5 years I’m sure he will have at least 2 year with multiple major wins.

Mike

[jbrace]

Well that depends,

Do you mean ratings? It's great for golf.

I think you are assuming something here and that is that the people tuning in enjoy watching Tiger dominate and win by 4-5 strokes and that will keep them glued to the TV. I think it's obvious from reading this thread that this is not necessarily the case. Not everyone finds that exciting and/or entertaining TV and some will actually turn to something else once the drama is over (for me, once the back 9 started). There are at least 3 other people here that seem to agree with me. While it's fun to watch Tiger hit an 8 iron from deep rough 183 yards to 12 feet, I can (and did)watch the highlights on TSN or the Golf Channel for that.

I won't argue that ratings are not higher when Tiger is in contention. I'm just saying that for many golf fans, it's more entertaining when it's close.

[Hacker]

I totally agree with Andru, but the bottom line is that you simply cannot compare the greats of today with the greats of the past in any sport, you're just not comparing apples with apples.

Who was the greatest hockey player of all time?? #99 as far as I'm concerned, but Gordie Howe, the Rocket and maybe even Frank Finnigan would all be able to make a case for themselves too and you really can't refute their claims because times are different today, the game has changed, equipment has evolved and so have training methods etc. and so forth.

As far as the stats go, any good statistician can make the stats support just about any arguement that he/she wants - Right "Richard"??

[Andru]

I think you are assuming something here and that is that the people tuning in enjoy watching Tiger dominate and win by 4-5 strokes and that will keep them glued to the TV. I think it's obvious from reading this thread that this is not necessarily the case. Not everyone finds that exciting and/or entertaining TV and some will actually turn to something else once the drama is over (for me, once the back 9 started). There are at least 3 other people here that seem to agree with me. While it's fun to watch Tiger hit an 8 iron from deep rough 183 yards to 12 feet, I can (and did)watch the highlights on TSN or the Golf Channel for that.

I won't argue that ratings are not higher when Tiger is in contention. I'm just saying that for many golf fans, it's more entertaining when it's close.

Ratings are in. And this is the highest ratings since 2002 when Tiger was chasing down Rich Beem. If you look at the highest golf ratings of all time. The touraments in which tiger has dominated the field are the highest.

This board in no way represents a sample of the real golf world.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....tvratings.ap/

[Hacker]

The proof is always in the EATING of the pudding (not in the pudding as most people say) and Andru just helped himself to a great big spoonful.

Nice job there Andru!!

[mberube]

The American’s love Tiger so most want to see history in the making plus European golf fans were watching and hopping that Luke would put an end to an amazing stat.

Mike

[jbrace]

Hmmm. Better ratings in 02 when Beem won and it was alot closer (read: exciting), and that was when golf in general was not as popular as we all know it keeps growing in popularity.

Again, there's no argument that Tiger draws an audience - as he should. But this "stat" would tend to support my theory that although golf fans enjoy watching Tiger, they tend to watch more a closer tournament more than a Tiger blow out. No? Ah, forget it.

[Hacker]

Sorry jb, it wasn't the closeness of the tourney that was the draw, it was Tiger....he hasn't been contending in the PGA since 2002.....I mean the 2004 PGA had a 3-man, 3 hole play-off - Does it get much more exciting than that???

......only if Tiger is involved.

I'm loving this discussion btw - nothing better than debating an issue in and intelligent way with good points being made on both sides

[Shivas Irons]

it wasn't the closeness of the tourney that was the draw, it was Tiger....

Agreed, there's no doubt that if Tiger is in the field/lead the ratings will increase. This is because the casual, and non-golf fan will watch. They want to see Tiger, just like they want to see Michelle Wie.
However, those of us who watch pretty much every PGA tournament see enough of Tiger and understand there is no correlation between drawing a large audience and having an exciting finish. You want an increase in ratings just insert Tiger, or Michelle Wie, or the ambulance that Michelle is riding in.
The increase in ratings is not from hard core golf fans watching, it's from everyone else who normally would not watch tuning in.

[jbrace]

I mean the 2004 PGA had a 3-man, 3 hole play-off - Does it get much more exciting than that???

......only if Tiger is involved.

EXACTLY! It would have been more exciting if Tiger was involved in a playoff.

Would it have been more exciting if was Tiger dissmantling the rest of the field and the course itself? Personally, I think not. I remember that playoff. I had played in the "Lefty-Righty" scramble in Smith Falls that day and stayed in the clubhouse afterwards (instead of driving back to K-town) because it was great TV. Never would have done it this year, but that's just me I guess. Oh and the majority of my golf fan friends who also flipped the tube to another channel when Tiger had it in the bag. But I guess they are not "representative of the real golf world" (whatever that is) either.

jeffc stated that it was boring to watch Tiger dominate (yet again). Andru's assertion is that Tiger dominating every tournament is better for golf ratings than if he were simply "in contention". This is where we disagree.

[Andru]

EXACTLY! It would have been more exciting if Tiger was involved in a playoff.
...... Oh and the majority of my golf fan friends who also flipped the tube to another channel when Tiger had it in the bag. But I guess they are not "representative of the real golf world" (whatever that is) either.

That's as plain as day. WHile you and your friends turned the tube off. The majority of golf fans and more left it on. It's as simple as that. My golf friends left it on. Even my dad and mom watched.

jeffc stated that it was boring to watch Tiger dominate (yet again). Andru's assertion is that Tiger dominating every tournament is better for golf ratings than if he were simply "in contention". This is where we disagree.

The numbers say when Tiger is in contention the ratings are better that is true. However. the best ratings so far are when Tiger has dominated the field. 1997 masters being on of them, The 2000 US open being another.

People like to witness greatness It's not because are expectations are lower or we're easily satisfied. Golf is different than other sports. Your competition is your opponent in many sports. In golf the competition can be the course. When Tiger is doing something that no one else is. It's theater. he's going one on one with the golf course and when he's beating it. Unforgetable. The CBS guys are not idiots. When they say Tiger is making a difficult course look easy they weren't lying.

Sure Tiger playing his best with some pressure to the end is awesome as well.

[jbrace]

People like to witness greatness It's not because are expectations are lower or we're easily satisfied. Golf is different than other sports. Your competition is your opponent in many sports. In golf the competition can be the course. When Tiger is doing something that no one else is. It's theater. he's going one on one with the golf course and when he's beating it. Unforgetable. The CBS guys are not idiots. When they say Tiger is making a difficult course look easy they weren't lying.

You're not really saying anything here that we don't already know.

Let's put a different spin on it:

Hypothetical Scenario 1 - Tiger wins every tournament that he enters in the next three years by 6 shots. Every other player crumbles in his wake to the pressure of trying to keep up.

Hypothetical Scenario 2 - Tiger is either tied for the lead or within a couple of stokes going into the final round of every tournament that he enters in the next three years. His FC's step up to the pressure and force him to play his best, and some actually succeed in besting him down the stretch.

Andru, which scenario do you think would be best for golf ratings over the three year period?

[Shivas Irons]

WHile you and your friends turned the tube off. The majority of golf fans and more left it on. .

Not me, it was even more boring than reading the rules of golf.

People like to witness greatness It's not because are expectations are lower or we're easily satisfied. .

It's a matter of people wanting to be part of popular culture and wanting to be part of the conversation at the water cooler the next morning. The fact that there are more viewers when Tiger is playing proves these people are more interested in Tiger than the golf tournament itself. Such as the sportscasters on the radio saying "Tiger won another Grand Slam!!" Uh, I think you mean "major"

[Hacker]

Hypothetical Scenario 1 - Tiger wins every tournament that he enters in the next three years by 6 shots. Every other player crumbles in his wake to the pressure of trying to keep up.

Hypothetical Scenario 2 - Tiger is either tied for the lead or within a couple of stokes going into the final round of every tournament that he enters in the next three years. His FC's step up to the pressure and force him to play his best, and some actually succeed in besting him down the stretch.

Scenario 1 without a doubt - remember when that dude went on the incredible run on Jeopardy......that was their highest viewership because people were witnessing history, routing for the guy to win, routing for the guy to lose etc......this would be the same with Tiger if we was winning everything in sight

[Andru]

Agreed, there's no doubt that if Tiger is in the field/lead the ratings will increase. This is because the casual, and non-golf fan will watch. They want to see Tiger, just like they want to see Michelle Wie.
However, those of us who watch pretty much every PGA tournament see enough of Tiger and understand there is no correlation between drawing a large audience and having an exciting finish. You want an increase in ratings just insert Tiger, or Michelle Wie, or the ambulance that Michelle is riding in.
The increase in ratings is not from hard core golf fans watching, it's from everyone else who normally would not watch tuning in.

That's very presumptious and arrogant. To assume that people watch Tiger because they're fly by night fans is ridiculous.

I hardly watch a tournament when Tiger's not in the field. If I'm going to invest 3 hours on Sunday afternoon I want to see the best in the game and you can hardly call me fly by night. I spend my holidays flying around the continent to see the PGA live.

People watch Tiger because he's the best. If you're a true golfer and you can't appreciate how talented this guy is? Then I'd say you're actually a sports fan and you like the competition. You're not really a 'Golf Fan'.

Now Comparing Tiger Woods and Michelle Wie is really obnoxious. Tiger has 12 majors, 6 USga Amateur titles. People watch Tiger because he's the best. He's going to chip in on the 16th green at Augusta, Hit a 6 iron around a tree over water to a tucked pin from a bunker to win the CanOpen, He's going to hit a 3 iron 240 yards from a bunker pin high. That's why people watch Tiger.

[mberube]

You're not really saying anything here that we don't already know.

Let's put a different spin on it:

Hypothetical Scenario 1 - Tiger wins every tournament that he enters in the next three years by 6 shots. Every other player crumbles in his wake to the pressure of trying to keep up.

Hypothetical Scenario 2 - Tiger is either tied for the lead or within a couple of stokes going into the final round of every tournament that he enters in the next three years. His FC's step up to the pressure and force him to play his best, and some actually succeed in besting him down the stretch.

Andru, which scenario do you think would be best for golf ratings over the three year period?

I’d rather see scenario 1. The ratings are like this because fans want to see something out of the ordinary. If Tiger is in contention every tourney and wins every other day but also loses tournament that he should have won, that’s not greatness and fans will not tune in to watch. That’s just being a good Tour Pro. Not a record breaking Tour Pro.

Was it fun to see the Oilers win fore straight cups? Was it fun to see Gretz break all those records? Was it fun to see the Habs win 24 cups?

Watching sports, and playing sports is all about dominance. The more you dominate your opponents, the more fans you get.

Mike

[mberube]

You want to talk about golf fanatic:

I’m a member at a private course.
I live beside the course (The main reason I purchased my home).
I practice every day (chip, putt, short and long game).
I have a golf simulator at home in my garage.
I practice and play golf all winter long.
I’m a GolfDigest subscriber.
I have the golf channel on every day.
I go to pgatour.com every day to see what’s new.
And I only watch PGA tourneys that Tiger plays.
I will turn the channel if he is not in contention.