fliping wrists

[dan_670_12]

Im looking for a tip to try to stop me from flipping my wrists so much.

[zoic]

It seems to me I do not experience this problem since I changed my grip to interlocking pinky with index finger. Maybe you already do that though. My swing is short and my wrists never really break I think.

[little brit]

You can buy a really excellent download from Brian Manzella's site called 'Confessions of a former flipper'. I found it excellent.

[byerxa]

Im looking for a tip to try to stop me from flipping my wrists so much.

I'm interested as well as lately my hands are starting to take over (and ruin) my swing!

[Started2k3]

Get a plastic comb and tape it to the back of your lead hand and over the wrist. Do only partial swings. You should not feel any pressure from the comb on the back of your hand as you go through impact. This is like a poor man's "golf glove".

If your problem is that your right hand overpowers the left wrist then you need to get "the secret" by greg norman (ebay). This will keep your right wrist in the proper position.

If you don't like gadgets, then this site helped me (I wish I had printed it for the first time I used it on the range). The drill is useful, and if you actually take the time and try it out you will be floored because the claim of "ungodly accuracy" is true. But behind the text and video, the drill is actually trying to tell you about how both wrists should act during the golf swing. [Keep in mind that both wrists are connected during the swing and what you do to one the other will respond.]
http://members.cox.net/gregjwillis/LESSON1.htm


All [good] drills (and even some swing aids) are trying to tell and teach you something, but they speak very quietly and you must be willing to learn.

Charles

PS - I am a firm believer that drills are like crutches - required for a little bit but you should not have to use them all the time.


[BC - If you want you can provide the previous thread where we * slapped each other until the thread was even less useful than a "Richard" thread.]

[upanddown]

just hit several shots with your lead arm only. so if your a right-handed player - swing only with your left arm. this will teach you to extend your lead arm through impact and not flip the right wrist.

[BC MIST]

"The left wrist is flat, the right wrist is bent." Mark Evershed.

Do whatever you want or whatever you feel to achieve this position, and try to maintain the feeling until the finish of the swing, and the ball will fly straight.

As the left arm comes into impact it is straight but "through impact" the left upperarm stays connected to the left upper chest which causes the left arm to soon fold, and further causes the hands to come around the body. Normally, when one suggests to "EXTEND" the left arm through impact, the left upper arm separates from the chest, causing the club face to remain open because the shaft is off plane right.

[byerxa]

It is amazing how so many things go wrong with the golf swing ! The last month or so I have been stinking it up - horrible ball striking. Lots of tops (never used to have that problem), weak fades (usually a high draw hitter), and just generally poorly struck shots. I was hanging back, but could not stop it. After reading this thread I started to realize that maybe the topping was a result of flipping and I was hanging back to prevent duck hooks? You'd think that hard clunky feeling when the ball is hit would be a tip off, but I am not the swiftest with a golf club in my hands. Anyhow, at the range tonight I really focused on holding the right wrist kocked. Once I adjusted back to swinging down and through the ball I started to get back that effortless "covering" feeling with my high draw. Only took me 2 months!

Now let's see if I can bring it to the course tomorrow!

[dreaded_snowman]

I have a related question about when to hinge the wrists...

After much experimentation at the range, I discovered I could hit a driver straight if I kept the left arm dead straight until my shoulder hits my chin (no wrist hinge to this point). Then I let my wrists fluidly hinge at the top, as though my chin were a stop and my wrists were literally a loose hinge. Because my hands have rotated by that point, it's a pure upward hinge (If I rotate it back down in front of me, the club is coming straight up at my nose).

All instructional material I see says that I should start to hinge earlier, but whenever I do that, I'm hinging (to some degree) in the wrong direction. Enter the swat and slice.

On the plus side, not hinging keeps my takeaway low and along the ball line, which is supposed to be good. So how bad is it to hinge fairly late in my swing?

Cheers,
Rob

[little brit]

From what I can gather from the countless hours I have spent researching the different teachers and techniques, both early and late hinging is valid. It seems to depend on what works for you. There are mega pros in both camps. Leadbetter advocates this technique, but I believe Nicklaus and many others prefer a late set into a float load. Early set doesn't work for me either

[BC MIST]

So how bad is it to hinge fairly late in my swing?

The problem with hinging late is that sometimes causes a rebound affect, and the golfer comes over the top. It worked for Jack, may work for you, but is totally unnecessary in the first place. All the "low and slow," "the first 12" is the most important part of the backswing," "you must create a wide arc," etc., is bunk anyway, but if it helps you, then this is great. However, there may be a limit to its benefit.

My personal approach is the exact opposite to yours. My wrists are fully kocked, BEFORE I SWING THE CLUB. See attachment. My simple thinking is that if I can get my wrists in the top of the backswing position, BEFORE I SWING, then I have an excellent chance of them being there when I actually get to the top. You can see that my left wrist is flat and my right one is bent, ideal positions. This works for me as I hit the ball a reasonable distance for my age, and my accuracy is well up there.

["Richard"]

[BC - If you want you can provide the previous thread where we * slapped each other until the thread was even less useful than a "Richard" thread.]

Don't hate the player, hate the game
golfers, sharpen your aim
Every baller on the course is searchin' fortune and fame
Some come up, some get done up, except the twist
If you out for mega cheddar, you got to go high risk

[Started2k3]

Don't hate the player, hate the game
golfers, sharpen your aim
Every baller on the course is searchin' fortune and fame
Some come up, some get done up, except the twist
If you out for mega cheddar, you got to go high risk

Check your dosage.

[Powerdraw]

The problem with hinging late is that sometimes causes a rebound affect, and the golfer comes over the top. It worked for Jack, may work for you, but is totally unnecessary in the first place. All the "low and slow," "the first 12" is the most important part of the backswing," "you must create a wide arc," etc., is bunk anyway, but if it helps you, then this is great. However, there may be a limit to its benefit.

My personal approach is the exact opposite to yours. My wrists are fully kocked, BEFORE I SWING THE CLUB. See attachment. My simple thinking is that if I can get my wrists in the top of the backswing position, BEFORE I SWING, then I have an excellent chance of them being there when I actually get to the top. You can see that my left wrist is flat and my right one is bent, ideal positions. This works for me as I hit the ball a reasonable distance for my age, and my accuracy is well up there.

looks like my alignment setup-waggle when im over the ball, great stuff. As in life, there are many options but correct aligments to desired motion is much simpler path. I will add, if the right forearm is coming high into impact (from down the line) one MUST flip or miss the ball. Flip is not caused by the wrist itself, always seek what can cause it to flip. means vs cause. just my thought,

have a great day.

[BC MIST]

looks like my alignment setup-waggle when im over the ball, great stuff. As in life, there are many options but correct aligments to desired motion is much simpler path. I will add, if the right forearm is coming high into impact (from down the line) one MUST flip or miss the ball. Flip is not caused by the wrist itself, always seek what can cause it to flip. means vs cause. just my thought,

And a good one at that.

In other instructional posts over time, I have "preached" that the shaft and the right forearm must be aligned (http://www.golfbetterproductions.com/comparison.asp) when the hands are about hip high in the downswing, for the proper release of the leverage angles to take place. If the golfer's swing is too upright, then compensations have to take place to ensure a better impact position. Most upright swingers have to drive their legs to do this, AND some flip their wrists, as you say, otherwise their ball ends up in right field.

[Eldred]

The problem with hinging late is that sometimes causes a rebound affect, and the golfer comes over the top. It worked for Jack, may work for you, but is totally unnecessary in the first place. All the "low and slow," "the first 12" is the most important part of the backswing," "you must create a wide arc," etc., is bunk anyway, but if it helps you, then this is great. However, there may be a limit to its benefit.

My personal approach is the exact opposite to yours. My wrists are fully kocked, BEFORE I SWING THE CLUB. See attachment. My simple thinking is that if I can get my wrists in the top of the backswing position, BEFORE I SWING, then I have an excellent chance of them being there when I actually get to the top. You can see that my left wrist is flat and my right one is bent, ideal positions. This works for me as I hit the ball a reasonable distance for my age, and my accuracy is well up there.

I remember reading one of Leadbetter's tip regarding this early kocked move few years back. I tried for while and found my back swing is restricted (hands not getting to 10 O'clock). How far do you go back BC? I do notice my left wrist is flatter with this move.

[Thimble]

Im looking for a tip to try to stop me from flipping my wrists so much.

the cure to flipping your hands is to delay straightening your wrist angle as much as you can.

the check swing drill is really good for this, and you don't even need a ball for it.

-set up normally.
-do a *REAL* downswing, and stop (ie. check) at 1/4 swing (forearms point at your back foot).

your wrist angle should be the same as it was at the top of your backswing (about 90 degrees).

-repeat a couple more times, pumping down and stopping at this point each time.

-now do a full swing.

*note: if you overdo the delay, you'll get a nasty low push as you might not have enough time to bring the clubhead back

[little brit]

Correction to my post. It is certainly true that what you think you do isn't always true. After saying I didn't hinge my wrists early I checked in the mirror and found I hinge very early, only it is unintentional due to the fact that I drag the clubhead back which rebounds into set wrists. (Not that my swing is anything to go by )

[BC MIST]

I remember reading one of Leadbetter's tip regarding this early kocked move few years back. I tried for while and found my back swing is restricted (hands not getting to 10 O'clock). How far do you go back BC? I do notice my left wrist is flatter with this move.

Leadbetter's students have an early wrist kock, which makes sense, becasue getting the hands in the top of the backswing position earlier, when the swing is moving more slowly, is easier to do. If you feel the your swing is too short it is NOT because of the early wrist set. The true radius of your swing is determined by the extended left (presumably) arm. The length of that arm does not change whether you set early or not. Where your hands get to at the top, IMO, is relatively unimportant as you will go to to where your flexibility allows. If you have any sort of hit impulse, then your mind will restrict you backswing. Remember: Your arms turn your shoulders, you don't turn your shoulders.

There are some who will say that an early set will shorten the golfers swing arc or that some golfers, like Tiger, have "great extension,' as though this is important, which it is not. Golfers who extend actually have a small arc. If I set early I will get into position "A" at the top. If I extend going back I will still get into position "A" at the top, so IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW YOU TAKE IT BACK. The only arc that is important is the one that you have when you make your downswing. The pros have a "large" arc, while most of us have a smaller one, but that is the subject of another discussion.

BTW: I don't know exactly where my hands are at the top in terms of the clock face, and I don't care. It is NOT important. What is important is that they be on the proper plane which is somewhere between the shaft axis plane line and the turned shoulder plane line.

[Started2k3]

....Remember: Your arms turn your shoulders, you don't turn your shoulders.....

Please elaborate.

[BC MIST]

Please elaborate.

Moving your hands/arms to the top of the backswing will turn your shoulders. You do not consciously have to turn them.

There are still some instructors who will tell you that YOU must turn your shoulders on the backswing. Try this: Setup in address position. Have grip pressure that is 1 on a scale of 10. In slow motion, just turn your shoulders. What does the club head do? If you do this correctly, IT DRAGS ALONG THE GROUND. Your shoulders GET turned.

[Started2k3]

Moving your hands/arms to the top of the backswing will turn your shoulders. You do not consciously have to turn them.

There are still some instructors who will tell you that YOU must turn your shoulders on the backswing. Try this: Setup in address position. Have grip pressure that is 1 on a scale of 10. In slow motion, just turn your shoulders. What does the club head do? If you do this correctly, IT DRAGS ALONG THE GROUND. Your shoulders GET turned.

I don't get it.

It may be semantics, or due to the fact that you are a scratch player and I am a 23hcp. In either case, I will worry about it in a couple of years, because my season is done and next year I will only be able to play a few rounds (new baby coming).

Later
C.