Spinefinder

[Chieflongtee]

Any hobbyist clubmaker out there looking for an affordable spine finder check out this link. And for once someone from our homeland.

http://members.shaw.ca/cgdick/

[natgolfer]

Colin's spinefinder will do just that-it will find the spines. But, the accuracy of being able to locate their EXACT position is suspect, because you have to roll the shaft and then feel for the spine. Truthfully, where the spine if does not really matter as it is the location of ther neutral bend point, most flexible part of the shaft, that is used when the club is assembled.

However, Andre, our NF2's will find the spines and measure the deflection of these and the NBP's to the nearest thousandths of an inch. And, we will be able to match any set of shafts to the nearest thousandths of an inch, as well.

How accurate is it, you ask? If the proper spring is used, 3.5 thousandths of deflection is equal to 1 CPM, for those who know about frequency matching.

I just measured 50 "identical" Rifle shafts on my NF2. All had spines, some as low as .004"(1+CPM) but some as high as .040"(11 CPM) That's like going from a regular shaft to a stiff flex, and without your knowing it. Guess which ones I am keeping for myself???

[lazzal]

Natgolfer??? After you locate the spine, where on the finised club will the spine be oriented?? If the face of the club is 9 o'clock and the toe is 12 o'clock, where will the spine be on your finished club?? Why??

[natgolfer]

Articles and discussions about spine orientation show some differences in opinion about where the spine is located, however, the overwhelming majority of clubmakers now agree on one particular position, and it is NOT about where the spine is orientated. Rather, it is where the Neutral Bend Point (NBP), the most flexible part of the shaft, goes. The best alignment position for consistent results, has the NBP facing the target, ie., 9 o'clock for righties and 3 o'clock for lefties.

With iron shafts, this means that the spine is at 3:00 and 9:00 respectively, as iron shafts have the spine and NBP 180* apart, because all these shafts are bent, to some extent. These are Type 1 shafts.

With graphite shafts the story is a little different. The NBP still goes to 9:00 for righties, however, the spines will generally be at 12:00 and 6:00. Type 2 shafts. I say generally, because in reality they are usually close to 12 and 6, but they sometimes are not in these positions and are called Type 3 shafts. That's why I will FLO a graphite shaft to ensure that I have found it's most stable plane and orient this stable plane in the 9 to 3 position.

Buying an expensive graphite shaft does not ensure quality or consistency in spine, NBP location. I have tested lousy UST Proforce, and Graffaloy Prolite 35, $50 to $70 shafts, (Actually, I have yet to find a good one) and great cheap graphite shafts, like the $15 Distance Masters from Golfworks and Systen 3000's from SG, that show extremely small spines.

When a shaft flexes and unflexes, it wants to do so along it's most flexible plane and will, if the shaft is oriented in the 9 to 6 plane. If it is not oriented correctly it will still want to flex/unflex along the proper plane, particularly as it unflexes, but becuse of poor orientation, this may cause the head of the club to actually droop as it approaches impact, so on a good swing ball clubface contact will be off centre, resulting in a poorer than normal shot. But, with a graphite shaft, if the NBP is at 9 and the spine at 12, the stiffness of the 12 o'clock spine prevents the head from drooping, so you get a better shot. How much better? Who knows? But, in reading several posts on golf tech forums, the majority of golfers using spine oriented clubs, report more consistent results. So why would you not do it?

A graphite shaft with a huge spine is called a "Supershaft" because if it is oriented properly, the shaft will flex more than normal as you start your downswing, however, it will also kick faster at impact giving you more distance with the same effort. However, most of us are looking for consistency from shaft to shaft so having small deflection readings, spines, overall, is preferred. By reputation, SK Fiber produces the best shafts along with Apache. Perhaps that is why Eric Cook at Swingsync uses SK's in his Single Frequency Matched clubs. A clubmaker using a frequency analyser to match shafts, better know where the spine is because if they don't place the shaft in the clamp in the proper location every time, the CPM readings will not be accurate. The same shaft will be a "Regular" in one position, and will read "Stiff" in another because of the spine, if it a big one. So be wary of "frequency matched" sets. TT calls their "Gold" series shafts "frequency matched," but they apparently never see a frequency analyser. They just sort them by their respective weights and assume that the frequencies are the same. They are not!! SwingSync uses an FA with great shafts, like SK's, so the clubs they produce are excellent, but you also pay for the process.

This is one reason why I like using my NF2 spinefinder/shaft matcher, because as soon as I place a shaft in it, the shaft automatically goes to the NBP position so all readings are consistent. The NF2 allows me to match and mark for trimming by deflection, a complete set of iron shafts, in about 3 minutes.

Hope this helps your understanding.

[Chieflongtee]

Lazzal. Being from Oregon you probably don't know who Eric Cook is. He is from Ottawa and has his own patented frequency system different than all the others.
http://www.ottawagolf.com/swingsync/index.htm

Quote:
With iron shafts, this means that the spine is at 3:00 and 9:00 respectively, as iron shafts have the spine and NBP 180* apart, because all these shafts are bent, to some extent. These are Type 1 shafts.

I believe Natgolfer meant to write steel shafts not iron shafts in his reply to your question. He also mentionned the "Supershaft" which is actually a poor shaft with proper orientation. Some golfers call it "extatic".

The other downfall with frequency matched shafts is different frequency analysers give different readings.

I have seen Natgolfer's NF2 and believe me it is an incredible device.

I don't know how much you know about puring/spining but if you'd like I could provide you with some very interesting links that confirm Natgolfer's reply.

[lazzal]

The Neutral Bend Point is oriented to the face side of a driver to compensate for "toe droop"---The spine would go to the 12 o'clock position on the driver because of using graphite, if FLO [flat line oscillation] would permit -- If the irons were being assembled with graphite instead of steel shafts, would the spine still be oriented to 12 o'clock, or would the spine still go to 9 o'clock if FLO permittted??---The irons clubheads weigh more in grams than the driver, why is "toe droop" more important on the driver than the irons??

There was a man in Anchorage [cannot remember his name] assembled very expensive Fly Rods from Loomis graphite blanks---He claimed that the spine had to be toward the fish, if not the rod would not throw a line straight----Why would this not be similiar to a golf club and why would the "target" [9 o'clock side] not be the same has him orienting the spine toward the fish??

[Chieflongtee]

I'll let Natgolfer answer that one but this is what Bill Day has to say about it.
From: http://www.clubmaker-online.com/spines.html

[lazzal]

OK I am confused--Frequency matched??---If the clubheads weigh 7 grams more per progression, 2 iron through the PW, how can the frequency stay the same??---If they were all made at the
5 iron length and at 305 CPM'S, how can the frequency remain the same with the different clubhead weights 2 through PW??---If they become progressively shorter, say one half inch per club and the shafts were tipped in reverse, for example:: tipped four and one half inches for the 2 iron and then progressivel less by one half inch to reach the Sand Wedge, doesn't this "screw up" the freqency per shaft??--

If the shafts are all the same length, how long are they??--If the clubheads are all the same weight, how is it determined what that weight will be??--

[Chieflongtee]

You'd have to ask Eric and I am unsure of my answer but I believe he does not follow the regular trimming formula i.e 1/2 increments tip trimming which means he may not tip trim some of them at all. In other words he has his own tip trimming formula. But I believe the clubs lenghts are standard. Some forum members have used his clubs and seem to be quite satisfied.

I am no expert but I read an article entitled the moment of truth by Jeff Summit. And that's even more confusing.Basically he picks his favourite club and matches them to the same weight by adding weight to some of them(the lightest one) and shaving off weight the heaviest ones. He also talks about balance point etc...
I also heard that some touring pros have some weight shaved off their heavier irons

[lazzal]

Apparently my questions are too technical in nature for Mr Cook---It would be beyond my bank account to have to purchase a set of his irons and dismantle them and test each component---I would really like to know how and if he can do what is claimed by his company, but I do not NEED to know---

Thanks

[Christian]

Hi lazzal.

I would be very surprised if your questions were too technical for Eric (with his engineering degrees and years of experience etc...). I think his reticence in providing you with the answers that you seek are more related to the fact that his approach is patented and some of the answers would possibly reveal some of his proprietary secrets.

BTW, I know that up until a week ago, the Chuck Brown's in Bell's Corners had a complete set (2-LW) of a graphite set of clubs built by Eric. I don't know what they are asking for them.

P.S. One of the advantages of Eric's frequency matched system is that all the clubs "feel" the same as you swing them (same swing weight and club weight etc...) so that the PW will feel exactly the same as the 4 iron (despite their difference in length and club head weight)

[natgolfer]

I cannot explain why the fisherman would have the spine facing the target(fish) until I know if the fishing rod has a second spine and two N planes. If the rod is a Type 1, then the results should be comparable with the NBP facing the fish. When PUREing first came out, I gather the spines were orientated to the target, however, as time has passed and more experimentation has been done, the recommendations have changed.

Regarding Mr. Cook's Single Frequency Matched golf clubs. I think I have figured out what his process is to achieve the desired result. Yesterday I completely dismantled my wife's SFM clubs, weighed and measured every component, additional lead powder and it's location in the shaft. Yes, I reassembled them to the same specifications.

At this time, I feel it would be inappropriate to describe exactly what he does, considering his method is patented and proprietary, however, there are three observations that I will make. (1) All shafts are tipped at a similar point to achieve one frequency. That's obvious.(2) From the favourite club to the longest, the total weight is exactly the same. (MOI Matching) (3) the shafts were not spined. In fact the spines were orientated in the worst possible position for consistent flex and so were trimmed somewhere between the shafts most flexible and least flexible orientation. Some of the spines were small, but others were quite huge. When I reassembled them, all shafts were orientated with the spines at 3:00.(NBP to 9:00)

Fascinating stuff!!