Rules of Golf - Silly or Valid?

[Indio]

OK, instead of hijacking the other thred, I will start this one.

I do believe that rules are necessary to make the game of golf fair during competition but in my opinion, some fo the rules of golf are archiac, outdated and just simply put, stupid!

Is it time for the R&A/USGA/RCGA to update them? Which rule is your pet peeve?

[Kilroy]

I used to think some rules were stupid. Not anymore.They cover a wide range of situations in a nature influenced environment. They are what they are after hundreds of years of subtle tweeking. Don't expect any major changes in our lifetime.

["Richard"]

hopefully they won't add a rule to ban belly putters

[KickerOfElves]

I still think the OB rule is excessively punitive and if followed to the letter would cause uneeded delays in a round. It should be the same as hitting into a water hazard.

[Kilroy]

If there is any posiibilty your ball is OB, just hit a provisional.

[jvincent]

Here's my problem with the rules. There are too many "exception conditions" as a result of trying to make the game "fair".

For example, if there were no rules regarding relief from obstructions the rules would be a lot simpler. Just hit your ball where it lies. If a grandstand/garbage can/shed is in the way, well tough. You shouldn't have hit it there in the first place.

Granting relief without penalty in some cases forces the rules to define when free relief can and can't be granted, thus making things complicated.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

[Kiwi battler]

I'd like to see commonsense and fairness ....if its accidental then replace the ball .....if no advantage is gained then no penalty

[Tanglegrip]

You certainly need rules otherwise when you and I play I'll win everytime by my rules, (and you owe me $20.00 BTW, bet you're glad that we were playing for small stakes ).

Whenever you have rules they won't be able to cover every conceivable situation. Just look at the situations that the golfer formerly known as thotho comes up with! Therefore you have decisions concerning the rules, basically an ongoing interpetation of what they mean, and what is or isn't allowed. Plus the ROG are updated every 4 years. Change is slow, but it does come.

Sure there are some rules that we don't like such as the OB rule. In this case though the penalty is severe because the action was. You are no longer in the field of play so the action doesn't count, plus you get a stroke penalty for making such a stupid shot in the first place, and you have to do it again until you get it right.

If you don't follow all of the ROG then you aren't playing golf. I believe that Gary calls it "flog".

But there are rules the I would change;
Removal of stones in bunkers. My FC have enough trouble ducking my rockets when I do manage, usually on the third attempt, to extricate my ball from the bunker, they don't need to be ducking rocks at 100 mph as well. (BTW I can never remember if the R&A allows the removal of a stone, or if it's the USGA).

Another one, loose impediments, such as large boulders. If you can't move it yourself then outside agencies such as the gallery have no business moving them for you. Sorry Tiger.

[Kilroy]

I believe the rule for rocks was changed after that incident. You can no longer get help to move a rock that is not solidly embedded.

Stones may be picked out of bunkers according to the R&A and the RCGA for saftey reasons.

[zoic]

I certainly have little knowledge about the real rules, since I mainly play for fun, so I do not care much about them. I have to ask in tournaments of match play how to handle situations sometimes, since I am not well versed on the rules (nor interested). Personally, since I started golfing I always felt a penalty stroke is stupid for weekend golfers or floggers, in most cases anyway, but that is never going to change I am sure (for good reason). Mainly I think the rules are good applied to Pro golfers, but for an average weekend flogger, trying to wrap your head around there rules and abide by them is just plain silly. I think it slows down play a fair bit too,.

I just try be logical and fair in deciding these things, and try to have fun instead of dwelling on a bunch of rules to bog me down. And statements that I am just cheating myself or that I am not playing golf just make me laugh. If I punish myself with rules made for professionals, not floggers, the I am just cheating myself out of the fun I could have otherwise had. Regardless, I can live happily in denial either way.

[Kilroy]

Flog is fine. It certainly speeds up play. Just be aware that your score is only relevant when compared to others playing the same game as you.

That is not intended to be upity, it's just that everything is relative.

[AAA]

Removal of stones in bunkers. My FC have enough trouble ducking my rockets when I do manage, usually on the third attempt, to extricate my ball from the bunker, they don't need to be ducking rocks at 100 mph as well. (BTW I can never remember if the R&A allows the removal of a stone, or if it's the USGA).

Both the USGA and R&A (and RCGA) have the same rules.
There is an approved Local Rule allowing the removal of stones in bunkers. It is suggested that it was a Local Rule because the R&A and USGA couldn't agree about it so they left to the clubs to decide. I understand it is a LR on the PGA and European Tour 'hard cards'. But at the club level is rarely used in the US but frequently used in the British Isles (primarily because the sand in the US is 'processed')

[zoic]

Flog is fine. It certainly speeds up play. Just be aware that your score is only relevant when compared to others playing the same game as you.

That is not intended to be upity, it's just that everything is relative.

Of course, I do understand the need for set rules, and even tried to keep a handicapp legitimately using the system here. I have discovered I have made some errors, so is not an accurate handicapp afterall, although not far enough off to be of concern. I did not take you comments as uppity at all, I hope you did not take mine as indifference. I would certainly put a greater effort into it if I was a member of a club participating in competitions. Other than competition, I would not expect my score would be relevant to anyone besides me, but maybe I am wrong about that one, who knows.

[Indio]

I agree that rules are required in all sports and I don't have an issue with rules but it is the assenine rules that they have on the PGA tour this I shake my head at. Some rules of golf, some rules of the PGA...

Things like: Why can't players wear shorts? Whats wrong with all players taking a cart on 110° days? If a ball is in the middle of the fairway and has a clump of mud larger than the ball itself, why not let them clean it off and drop. So what if the ball falls off the tee at address, why penalize for that? Why can't they tap down big spike marks (ground under repair?) So what if your caddy stands in your line of sight when putting, you still have to hit the put the correct speed and on that line.

Just get rid of the silly rules.... (I know it will not happen in our lifetime!) its just frustrating to see such a wonderful game bogged down in the little idioy rules.

[jonf]

Things like: Why can't players wear shorts? Whats wrong with all players taking a cart on 110° days?

For the most part I agree with everything you say about silly rules. I do have to disagree with these two points however. Not allowing shorts is simply an effective way of ensuring that millions of fans watching at home don't have to vomit from the sight of, Mickelson's (or any other golfer) pasty white, underdevelopped legs.

As for the cart rule - if they want to push golf as a sport played by athletes, they better not be letting them ride around in a cart all day - not exactly a prime example of athletic prowess: "drive 300 yards, step out of cart, hit ball, get back in cart, drive to green" Man...now THAT takes a well tuned machine. They would have to change their slogan from "these guys are good" to "these guys are good, fat, spoiled and lazy."

[Indio]

For the most part I agree with everything you say about silly rules. I do have to disagree with these two points however. Not allowing shorts is simply an effective way of ensuring that millions of fans watching at home don't have to vomit from the sight of, Mickelson's (or any other golfer) pasty white, underdevelopped legs.

As for the cart rule - if they want to push golf as a sport played by athletes, they better not be letting them ride around in a cart all day - not exactly a prime example of athletic prowess: "drive 300 yards, step out of cart, hit ball, get back in cart, drive to green" Man...now THAT takes a well tuned machine. They would have to change their slogan from "these guys are good" to "these guys are good, fat, spoiled and lazy."

If they wore shorts, they wouldn't have out of bound stakes for legs

I meant only on the days that it is so hot they are dragging their butts around the course. We do not see the best of their game if they are drained from the heat and humidity and that would happen only 3 or 4 times a year.....IMHO

[jonf]

true, but as supposed athletes, they should be able to WALK in heat for 5 hours. Soccer, football, lacrosse, beach volleyball, cycling etc etc etc all have to deal with the same hot conditions, only they are actually physically draining sports regardless of the weather. it doesn't look good for the PGA, let alone the golfers, if they have to get driven around on hot days.

[Indio]

true, but as supposed athletes, they should be able to WALK in heat for 5 hours. Soccer, football, lacrosse, beach volleyball, cycling etc etc etc all have to deal with the same hot conditions, only they are actually physically draining sports regardless of the weather. it doesn't look good for the PGA, let alone the golfers, if they have to get driven around on hot days.

Who to hell cares about the macho I can handle the heat crap? But, I understand and respect your point

[Frewcrew]

I don't understand the need for a limit. The caddy could be paid accordingly.

[LobWedge]

So what if the ball falls off the tee at address, why penalize for that?

There's no penalty for your ball falling off the tee, unless you were making a swing when it happened and you whiffed. The ball isn't in play when it's teed within the teeing ground.

There, one less thing to worry about...

[Ian]

I do understand and appreciate the Rules of Golf. And for the pros and many of the "better" clubs, they are perfectly acceptable. It really is fun to play by all the rules post a 'real' score.

However, for most of us, I believe that there needs to be a set of 'amateur' rules. For instance, how many of us can really take a true 'stroke and distance' penalty on a busy Saturday morning? I can only imagine the results of marching back to the tee and announcing to the 2 or 3 groups waiting there that you are "OB and going to hit another one"!

Yes, if I suspect that I'm OB, then I will declare and hit a provisional (I HATE 3 off the tee!!). But, often, because I'm now being very cautious, I don't hit my 'prov' very far. So, when I reach it, I'm still nowhere near to where my first ball may be. The rules say that as soon as I hit that prov again, it becomes the ball in play and I no longer have the option of playing my first ball. Not practical for weekend warriors!

Let's not even get into asking the committee to mark ground under repair on the course. Yeah, right!

There are more examples, but I'll stop there. In conclusion, I do hope that in my lifetime, we might see a 'split' in the rules, to give us hackers a more practical set by which to play. Because that's what it's really about; what is practical and what is not for a given situation.

My humble opinion, only, of course.

[Kiwi battler]

um Ian ......you best go reread the provisional ball rule

[faldo]

Exactly, it's only in play when it's past where you feel you're original one likely is. You can hit it 2 or 3 times before you get up to find your first Mammoth Blast. Then no more prov......

[Kilroy]

Let's not even get into asking the committee to mark ground under repair on the course. Yeah, right!

I have to agree that this is a problem, but not with the rules.

[BC MIST]

It is an ancient phenomenom that the bearer of bad news (The Rules of Golf) is always hated. Golfers hit bad shots and are unwilling to accept the consequences of their actions so they whine and complain that the rules are unfair or stupid. The rules are very fair and appropriately penalize the player for the mistakes they make. In particular, the OB and lost ball rules, caused by the worst of the players bad shots and oft whined about here, IMO, should result in a 2 strokes and distance penalty.

While it takes time, the truth is that the better a golfer you become, the less you will have to be concerned about the rules, as your ball will be in play in the better places from which to play. Hit the fairways and greens and the *ing will greatly diminish. If as much time spent complaining about them were spent learning about them, then some would see that learning what to do in certain situations is challenging and interesting.

There is a 2 day rules seminar coming up later this year here in Ottawa. I guess that I won't see too many from here, there.

[spackler]

My main gripe with the rules has nothing to do with normal play, just professional tournament play. I really don't understand why the scoring is not left to the tournament organizers. It's all being tracked, they all have marshalls with them every shot (even GPS tracking on every shot with Shotlink), why should a stupid math mistake or simple oversight have the potential to affect the result. Roberto diVicenzo's lost Masters (or at least playoff) is a blight on the game, even if a source of one of the greatest quotes ever.

[zoic]

My main gripe is having to take a penalty stroke for a ball lost in the fairway on Oct 21 right after a big windstorm covered all the fairways with millions of maple leaves. Bad enough you loose you ball after a smoking 250 yard drive, not we are going to add a stroke, no wait ... back to the tee mister, shooting 3. Maybe the answer is to hit 3 balls each time, hoping to find one at least. Loosing it in the fairway in heavy clover is equally frustrating.

[AAA]

How do you or your opponent tell the difference between
1) The one you saw finish on the fairway but the sun was in your eyes
2) The one you didn't see but are sure is on the fairway because that's where you hit it most of the time
3) The one he saw finish in the rough but you saw stop short
4) The one that went over a small rise and might just have run into the water hazard but it depends on the run

[Kiwi battler]

Faldo , you might confuse Ian with your statement , the provisional ball becomes the ball in play once played at a point beyond where its believed the original ball lays

I knew what you meant tho

Some course do use a local rule to help when leaves cover certain holes ,calling it abnormal ground conditions 25-1c

[jvincent]

For those that suggest the rules of golf are fine as they stand and don't need changing, I would remind you that the stymie was still allowed until 1952 (?).