Forum match play tourney

[LobWedge]

You don't need to seed by handicaps. The whole reason behind using them is to make all golfers equal on the first tee. Mike may be a 4, and Rezadue may be a 22. That's a complete mis-match if they're playing straight up, but the true differential is 18 strokes. Rezadue gets a stroke on every hole. That's the equalizer. Don't outsmart yourself Geoff. We have handicaps for a reason.

BTW - 80% handicaps is much more damaging to a high capper than a low one. Rezadue's cap now becomes 17.6, Mike's is 3.2. Rezadue loses almost 4 strokes. Now the tables are really tilted in Mike's favour. The only time that 80% should be used is when teams of 2 or more players are using a combined handicap.

[Big Johnny69]

Counting HDCP and Equitable Stroke Control are seperate entities and will not affect the outcome of these matches together. ESC is for a player to use when playing a round that will be inputted for HDCP purposes. For instance, myself being below a 9 HDCP (the first cutoff point I believe) I am not allowed to count more than double bogey on any hole. It prevents me from trying to throw a round to raise my cap for competitive purposes that use net scores. Whereas yourself rez, at your current playing level you are not supposed to count anything higher than triple or quad, not sure of the other cutoff pts. We won't be using ESC during the matches.

HDCP strokes is just a method to allow golfers of different levels a chance to compete against one another under relatively even playing conditions. Now of course this all goes to hell if there is a sandbagger. HDCP strokes is just the difference between the two players. Say mpare and I were to play a match. He would have to give me a stroke on the two hardest holes on the course. After that, its heads up the rest of the way in.

Make sense?

[Big Johnny69]

You don't need to seed by handicaps. That's the whole reason behind using them. All golfers are equal on the first tee. Mike may be a 4, and Rezadue may be a 22. That's a complete mis-match if they're playing straight up, but the true differential is 18 strokes. Rezadue gets a stroke on every hole. That's the equalizer. Don't outsmart yourself Geoff. We have handicaps for a reason.

BTW - 80% handicaps is much more damaging to a high capper than a low one. Rezadue's cap now becomes 17.6, Mike's is 3.2. Rezadue loses almost 4 strokes. Now the tables are really tilted in Mike's favour. The only time that 80% should be used is when teams of 2 or more players are using a combined handicap.

Isn't that what I've been saying. So not sure why you are suggesting I'm tryin to outsmart myself. Rich, everyone knows I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Just trying to give some structure. I know this format hurts the low capper if the high capper plays well. The 80% method is just a way to prevent sandbagging like I said. But I'm not worried about that here. I never said it had to be this way, just offering up an idea. Ultimately its up to rez as to how he wants to do this. I'm just suggesting ideas. We do it two ways at our club. We seed according to qualifying scores, and we have seeded according to handicaps. Let us know how you want to do it rez.

[jvincent]

I'm sitting at 9.3 right now.

[Maverick]

Im in if im not too late? Probably take the last seed though

[mjf]

Doh! Looks like I might be too late. I guess I've gotta start checking for new posts on this forum every few hours!

I'd also be interested in playing if there are any spots left or if somebody drops out. My index is sitting at 7.4 right now.

Thanks.
MJF

[mpare]

For "real" higher handicaps the 80% rule could unfairly tilt the outcome in favour of lower handicaps. I'd rather assume that everyone is being honest and play on the basis of a full differential. Anyone who has used creative math to "calculate" their handicap will soon be outed. In short, I'd rather give the higher handicaps the strokes to which they are entitled. Besides, it will force the lower handicappers to play better.

[Big Johnny69]

Exactly my thoughts as well mpare. By no means was I suggesting anyone was being "creative", just offered up another method of dealing with the cap differentials. I am cool with giving every stroke entitled to as well. Its all in fun and the spirit of the game.

[dasnutz]

I would be interested Geoff

[Big Johnny69]

I would be interested Geoff

rezadue is going to take care of this one. He'll see your reply I'm sure. We might have to expand this perhaps. What do you think rez? We've had three extras so far. If we get one more rez, we could either have a two 4 qualifying matches between the 8 bottom seeds (kind of a la NCAA for the last spot) or the top 4 seeds could get a bye to the next round. Not sure what you want to do.

[mberube]

I’m interested. I don’t use this sites HDCP software but I have a valid RCGA HDCP. I can send you a print screen on request to prove my index.

As some of you know, I’m a ClubLink member and this would give may playing partner the opportunity to play one of the 4 local CL courses if they wish.

Mike

[Big Johnny69]

I’m interested. I don’t use this sites HDCP software but I have a valid RCGA HDCP. I can send you a print screen on request to prove my index.

As some of you know, I’m a ClubLink member and this would give may playing partner the opportunity to play one of the 4 local CL courses if they wish.

Mike

You're just trying to bribe your way in aren't you????

Well rez, that makes four. What do you think? I don't think we have enough time to do a 32 man field. I'd say 20 is your max. Going to have to say no at some point. Just a matter now of how to proceed. I'll try to help the best I can. LMK.

[rezadue]

Gentlemen,

Honestly speaking, I am not very comfortable setting rules for this even as I am a beginner golfer myself and would not like to impose my little knowledge on most of you who have had much more experience playing golf, setting up and playing in tournaments and/or are more well read.

But since I opened my mouth and said I would help organize, I can make some common sense suggestions and see how people like them. But please do keep in mind that this is a "For Fun" event only.

From the ideas people I have been throwing around I would like to suggest the following. But feel free to chime in if you don't agree and would like to see something different.

1) We split the DHCP percentage down the middle and go by 90% of the difference between the two players.
2) Providing we have some people in the west end and some in the east end, we split the brackets to Ottawa East and West. This ought to make arranging matches a bit easier. Can you indicate whether you are on Ottawa West, Center, East or South? I guess Gatineau can fall under Ottawa North?
3) We choose the matches for the brackets in random. That way there is no controversy over whether it is harder for a low handicapper to beat a higher one with lots of strokes given.
4) There will be a 2 week period in which each round of matches must be completed. This is so we can complete the matches in a reasonable time.
5) Play from the middle tees. Playing from the back can be pretty tough on some of the short hitters out there. And the long ballers can enjoy the chance at driving greens in 2 on par 5s, or driving some par 4 greens.
6) If we get more interest before we start we can expand.

Alternates list:
1) Maverick
2) MJF
3) Dasnuts
4) mberube

Updated list of players:
mpare 3.3
Geoff 5.4-5.6
hoolio 5.6
longballhitter 6.4
jvincent 9.3
Dan Kilbank 13.3
zoic 19.9
Rezadue 22.4
Wilster
Sharkshooter
jonf
jeffc
big mac
noback
Farzin
BidrieMan

[Big Johnny69]

Rez, just heading into a training course at work for a few hours. I'll pm you when I'm done. I will help any way I can. We'll come up with a format/rules/brackets etc. In the meantime, if you could pm all interested and get them to give you an index. And if anyone says "Well my last 4 or 5 rounds I've shot...." don't listen to them.

[mberube]

You're just trying to bribe your way in aren't you????

Well rez, that makes four. What do you think? I don't think we have enough time to do a 32 man field. I'd say 20 is your max. Going to have to say no at some point. Just a matter now of how to proceed. I'll try to help the best I can. LMK.

Can’t blame a guy for trying!!

Kidding aside, I didn’t read the other posts so I was not aware that you had 16 players listed already. Count me in if you decide to go to a 32-man competition.

I’m in Toronto next week so if that causes a problem, well count me out.

I’m a 5.6 at the moment.

Mike
]

[jvincent]

rezadue,

Some comments on your suggestions.

1. For this don't forget that we should be using "course handicaps". When you are allocating strokes, an index of 9.3 translates to an integer number for the particular course/tee you are playing. I'm fine with the 90% adjustment but correct procedure for this would be to take your index, multiply by 0.9, then calculate the course handicaps for the match in question to determine strokes.

2. I'm East I guess but can play pretty much anywhere not too far away.

3/4/5. Fine by me.

[jvincent]

Kidding aside, I didn’t read the other posts so I was not aware that you had 16 players listed already. Count me in if you decide to go to a 32-man competition.

I’m in Toronto next week so if that causes a problem, well count me out.

Mike, if you can't make the actual tournament I'll be presumptious and suggest that you might want to host a match at one of the Clublink courses.

[mjf]

[QUOTE=rezadue]
5) Play from the middle tees. Playing from the back can be pretty tough on some of the short hitters out there. And the long ballers can enjoy the chance at driving greens in 2 on par 5s, or driving some par 4 greens.

Rezadue,

Although it probably would be simpler if both players played from the same set of tees, it is possible for the two players to play from different sets of tees in a handicapped match play round.

Here are a couple of links with the details if you are interested:

http://golf.about.com/cs/handicappin...q_difftees.htm
http://www.usga.org/playing/handicap...rent_tees.html

MJF

PS: I'm in the West end.

[mberube]

Mike, if you can't make the actual tournament I'll be presumptious and suggest that you might want to host a match at one of the Clublink courses.

If you want to play, dude, just ask.

[dasnutz]

mberube - we didn't even make the list. I say we do a home and home, I am out of Rideauview.

[LBH]

I'm in the Muskokas on the 22nd-23rd-24th but otherwise available to play after work on weekdays or anytime on weekends.

It doesn't matter for me if you categorize me as East-West-North-South. As long as it's within 30 mins of Ottawa I'm fine with it.

[rezadue]

Since 4 more are interested, we can certainly add it to 20 people. Just gotta talk to Geoff and figure out how.

Reza

[Farzin]

I stick to a 7.2 HDCI. Although I have no proof. At the mean time it takes only one participant to express his concern and I understandably and respectfully offer my withdrawal.

[LBH]

mberube - we didn't even make the list. I say we do a home and home, I am out of Rideauview.

Include me in that home and home and we can make it a triple crown thing... Maybe if we could get someone from Rivermead, Ottawa Hunt, Camelot or Royal Ottawa.... hint hint to those people

[LBH]

Since 4 more are interested, we can certainly add it to 20 people. Just gotta talk to Geoff and figure out how.

Reza

A bye to the 2nd round for the top 4 is how they do it at my home course

[rezadue]

Top 4 from the 1st round or top 4 HDCP'ers?

A buy to the 2nd round for the top 4 is how they do it at my home course

[LobWedge]

Isn't that what I've been saying. So not sure why you are suggesting I'm tryin to outsmart myself. Rich, everyone knows I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Just trying to give some structure. I know this format hurts the low capper if the high capper plays well. The 80% method is just a way to prevent sandbagging like I said. But I'm not worried about that here. I never said it had to be this way, just offering up an idea. Ultimately its up to rez as to how he wants to do this. I'm just suggesting ideas. We do it two ways at our club. We seed according to qualifying scores, and we have seeded according to handicaps. Let us know how you want to do it rez.

I'm not saying you're not smart Geoff, I'm saying "don't fix what ain't broke". Percentage adjustments would work just fine if you were dealing with fractions of a stroke ("looks like you get .76 strokes on this hole"), but it doesn't. There are whole strokes involved, and any reduction to someones handicap entitlement is ultimately more damaging to the high handicapper and gives an unfair advantage to low cappers. Those one, two, or three strokes that the high handicapper deserves to have could mean the difference between victory and defeat, and that's ultimately unfair. It's like being forced to bring a knife to a gunfight. The rules are in place for the protection of the entire field, as well as the individual golfer.

[zoic]

I want to play Hautes Plaines or other CL courses anytime.

The thing is maybe we should give an option for a player to refuse a course if they feel it is too much for them. I just want to make sure we do not make it so high handicappers have to deal with extreme "target golf" conditions. This can be discouraging when you are playing a match, plus loosing balls left right and center because the course is foreign and so tough to play 1st time.

I am in the west end, but I will play ALMOST anywhere.

[LBH]

Top 4 from the 1st round or top 4 HDCP'ers?

top 4 hdcp'ers

[rezadue]

Updated list:

mpare 3.3 - Ottawa West
Geoff(Geoff) 5.4-5.6 - Ottawa West
hoolio 5.6
mberube(Mike) 5.6 - Ottawa North
Dasnuts 6.0
Farzin(Farzin) 6.1
longballhitter 6.4 - Open
MJF 7.4 - West End
jvincent 9.3
jeffc 12.8
Dan Kilbank(Dan) 13.3
jonf(Jon) 18.5
zoic(Kevin) 19.9
Rezadue(Reza) 22.4 - Ottawa West
Maverick 26.6 - Ottawa North
Wilster(Wil)
Sharkshooter
big mac
noback
BidrieMan



Alternate:
Roland(Trevor)