Reading Poa greens

[GarthM]

To all you wizend old veterans out there....

How do you read poa greens? I have never had good luck on Poa mostly because I cannot read the grain since it does not lay down like bent does.

Does it tend to go with the water or with the sun? Is there any way to tell other than the general lay of the land and the slope on the green? Will poa break against the general lay of the land if the water drains the other way?

Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks

Garth

[Ginker]

My only thoughts are most break towards the water.. Also you can tell by the color of the grass.. Lighter down grain and darker into the grain.. Not sure if that helps..

[LobWedge]

Poa = slow-a. It'll be a foot to 2 feet slower than bent on the stimp meter. Poa has the least identifiable grain of the major turfgrasses, and tends to go to seed late in the day, and will get even slower. Well kept poa greens will roll very smoothly and can take a lot more traffic than bent and bermuda. Greens keepers will balk at cutting it too short because it will start to burn as you expose it closer to the roots. I have a lot of experience putting on poa from my days out west. More speed, less break.

[jonf]

I'm going to sound like an idiot, but thats nothing new to me: What is Poa?

[GarthM]

Poa annua (sp??) grass. It is a kind of grass used to make greens. Very common in coastal areas. Local courses that have poa include Champlain, Tecumseh, Chateau Cartier, Hammond (to name a few). Bent grass does exactly that it bends over once it reaches a certain height.

Poa and bent grass behave very differently IMHO. If you noticed this weekend alot of guys on tour were missing short putts (Adam's Scott's 3-jack from 4 feet on I think #16 was a nail in his coffin). The grass gets bumpy and when the seed heads come out at the end of a warm day the greens can be almost unputtable.

[jonf]

Ok, I know the stuff you mean - played a couple of those courses. Thanks

[GarthM]

So obviously I am not the only one who cannot read poa....anybody??????

[jonf]

either that or nobody can

[LobWedge]

So obviously I am not the only one who cannot read poa....anybody??????

Did you read my post Garth?

You need to be more aggressive on Poa, even on downhill putts. More speed, less break. As the ball slows down it will seem to "dig in" to the turf. Thats because the blades grow very upright and the overall green texture is spongy, especially with all the rain we've been getting. The grass should be a beautiful medium/dark green, unless they've cut it too short, then it will look greenish-brown. The only way that Poa can get really fast is if they cut the crap out of it and let the sun bake it to death.

[BC MIST]

So obviously I am not the only one who cannot read poa....anybody??????

After spending 40 years on poa greens I thought I was a poor to average putter, at best. Amazingly, after moving to a course with bent greens, my putting miraculously got better. A coincidence? Poa greens are bumpy and inconsistent, particularly if there is still a little bent in the mix.

Poa greens will break a little more than bent greens so either play more break, or hit the putts, mainly the shorter ones, firmly into the back of the cup, and eliminate the break. Forget about any significant amount of grain.

Not sure how you fared on the greens at Mississippi two weeks ago but my 76 consisted of missing four putts inside 4' 'cause I got spooked by what the ball would do on the bumpy poa. Bent rules! Start it at the hole and watch it fall.

BTW: Poa greens can be very puttable if cut to 10 or 11 on the stimp. What local greenskeeper does that? Right!

[GarthM]

Rich:

Yes I did read your post, and thanks, twice now...

BC:

I had the same problem there again this year. Missing a lot of short putts, same as at Tecumseh and Mississippi. That's why I was asking, just trying to get ready for next Monday at Tecumseh. Thanks again.

Garth

[Sakuraba]

The greens keeper at Mamaroneck seems to have done a pretty good job getting the poa quick, but the difference shows as the day goes on.