Interesting observation....

[Big Johnny69]

After playing a couple of rounds this weekend with some of the better players at my club and peeking in the bag of others I noticed something. Most of them were using midsized to oversized game improvement irons.

These were the irons being played with cap in brackets:

MX-20s (4)
Mizzy Sures (7)
Ping Eye 2s (7)
Ping Eye 2s (7)
Titleist 822 OS (7)
Ping G2 (7)
Ping Eye 2 (8)

Those are just the ones I noticed. All of these clubs have large heads and lots of offset. Am I missing something here? Here I am playing with standard to just barely larger than standard, minimal offset irons. I know equipment is all about preference, but I guess you could argue why make the game harder? I wonder, playing well or not, should I be looking at some game improvement irons?

[Chieflongtee]

I would if I were you Geoff. First if you get bigger and longer club faces the S possibilities will be reduced. You will also get more forgiveness on off center hits and it will be easier getting the ball airborne. This blade thing is a pride thing imo. Ask any tennis player if they would go back to old wooden racquets...

[Big Johnny69]

To be 100% honest, most, if not all, of my S issues are happening with 7-LW. The long irons tend to be real solid. Its the short irons that are giving me fits. So I know in most game improvement sets the offset is generally reduced as the loft increases. Wondering how much help that will really be?

[Chieflongtee]

Depends on the set. Some have constant offset. Try just 1 CER 851. Cost approx $22. Worth the experiment.

[Big Johnny69]

Do you mean the 701Us? Or the 851UMs?

[Chieflongtee]

Do you mean the 701Us? Or the 851UMs?

I meant the 851UMS. However they do not have constant offset.

[dH]

Geoff is starting to talk like smeone who loves golf again. I knew it wouldn't take long and hell it's an excuse to trade some more clubs! Gets me wondering why a ~25 handicap likemyself is using ping i3 blades! - 0 offset.

[el tigre]

To be 100% honest, most, if not all, of my S issues are happening with 7-LW. The long irons tend to be real solid. Its the short irons that are giving me fits. So I know in most game improvement sets the offset is generally reduced as the loft increases. Wondering how much help that will really be?

I don't think offset is the issue. The shorter the shaft, the easier it is to take the club back on the inside. Get Steve to check this again to see if you're still doing it. At the same time ask him to review your stance to see if you're standing too upright (tall guys like you have a tendency to do that), which will cause a flatter backswing. A backswing that is too flat will be more noticeable on the shorter clubs, which naturally have a steeper plane angle.

And if you want to join me and try some game-improvement irons, I was thinking of playing Mountain Creek this Saturday morning if you want to join me. My Nickents are undercut cavities with TT uniflex steel shafts and my Raven Sapphires are similar to the Ping G2's with FST ProVizion steel shafts.

[Big Johnny69]

Might just take you up on that Mr. tigre. I was talking to another member yesterday and he was thinking of playing early Sat as well. I'll get back to you today or tomorrow to see what's up.

[dH]

Also maybe those guys are older and have been playing there clubs for 20+ years. Maybe you should just stop hitting a new iron every time ya go

[Chieflongtee]

Question for you Geoff. From previous posts and from talking with other forum members you seem to be a very good player. Usually the S's happen in the early stage of one's golfing carreer. Your confidence is obviously down the pit. So my question is as follows: When did you start developing the habit? Could it be your eyesight? Also when you were shooting in the 74's which clubs were you using.? You love this game too much to give it up and all you need is to build that confidence back up.

[Big Johnny69]

First trip to the range this season. Wasted a whole bucket. They just showed up one day and haven't decided to leave yet. Just showing up where ever and whenever.

And as for which irons I used while playing well last year.....hmmmm let me see

Acer XDS Pro 2
Golfsmith Forged Tour Cavities
Kenneth Smith Forged Blades
Cleveland TA3s
Cleveland TA1s

Should I go on? I'm sure I can think of more sets I used last year.

[dH]

What clubs you using now?

[Big Johnny69]

Current set up:

Golfworks Distance Master Pro Launch+ 11.5* w/ Graman Limey G series UL540
Golfworks Distance Master Pro Balanced 18* w/ Acculflex The Juice
Tourstage Z101s w/ DGS 300s
Taylor Made Rac Y-cutters 54* and 58* w/ DGS 300s
Scotty Cameron Futura Phantom Mallet 2

[Golfbum]

Geoff have no fear, you are not the only person thining about game improvement irons. Right now as I am laid up and cant golf I have been thinking about getting rid of all my iron sets. Then once I can swing again I will go out to the golf store and buy some new irons, with more game improvement features. As much as I hate the thick top lines and chunky soles, it might be time.
I just hate to part with my Wishon's as they are sooooooooooooo solid. But with hardly any offset I am not doing myself any favours playing the long irons in that set. Also that beautiful set of TNT forged blades is sitting here and I know those won't be in the bag for the rest of my career!
I think we all need to do ourselves a big favour and go try the latest in game improvement irons. Afterall was it not you who went to a 13* driver and said you loved it? I bet a year ago you would have laughed if someone told you that driver would soon be in your bag.

[spackler]

Geoff have no fear, you are not the only person thining about game improvement irons. Right now as I am laid up and cant golf I have been thinking about getting rid of all my iron sets. Then once I can swing again I will go out to the golf store and buy some new irons, with more game improvement features. As much as I hate the thick top lines and chunky soles, it might be time.

Do you still have those TM 200s? They're still as good as any game improvement iron out there.

[Big Johnny69]

You are correct in that assumption Mr. Bum. Although I have dropped to an 11.5* I am still playing a much higher loft than I ever thought I would.

But other than maybe two of the best players at the club who are playing small headed irons (but still cavity backs) I was rally shocked to see what they were playing.

[Big Johnny69]

BTW, forgot to mention, the guy with the MX-20s shot an even par round 70 on Sun for a solid 36 pts in Intersectional qualifying.

[1972Apex]

The irons you are currently playing are easily as forgiving as any of the sticks you listed Geoff.
I'm not sure anyone makes clubs which are so forgiving that they bless shots hit off the hosel .

[Big Johnny69]

I don't expect that. But it would be nice. Just wondering out loud based on something I saw. Was curious as to what others thought. Was just thinking along the lines of, bigger face= larger margin for error, more MOI= straighter shots etc.

[jvincent]

I'm not sure anyone makes clubs which are so forgiving that they bless shots hit off the hosel .

Cleveland VAS. If you could call that monstrosity a hosel.

[Big Johnny69]

Even I wouldn't be that desperate to try those. I don't care if a US Open was won using them, no thanks.

[Andy4Par]

I smell a fire sale!!!

[Golfbum]

Do you still have those TM 200s? They're still as good as any game improvement iron out there.

Yes I still have those TM200's. They might go back in the bag once I recover from my surgery. Only problem is, my current irons are bent 2 up, the 200 series are cast at 4 up, plus they are a 1/2 longer than standard. Which makes them play about 5-6 upright. Could I become a HAPPY HOOKER if I start playing them again ?
The local store where I bought my 200 series irons told me they sold close to 500 sets of those irons. Hardly any came back on trade, so TaylorMade did something right with those irons.

The one nice thing I like about the Wishon's is the fact there is not much offset on the lower irons. That allows me to keep the ball flight down under the wind at my course. If I recover to the full extent I was before I put the clubs up 3 weeks ago then those 550C's will be in the bag. I know one thing, there will be a hybrid in my bag when the time comes I can play again. Trust me, I have already narrowed it down to 2 different brands.

I have nothing against "Game Improvement Irons" The damn game is tough enough as it is. Why make it any harder on ourselves. Look at the PGA Pros bags, more and more hybrids, lots of CB irons, forged mind you but still CB. Higher lofted drivers. Now if those guys who make a living at playing golf are using those clubs then why the hell are we not using them?

PS Anyone wanna buy a MINT SET OF FORGED BLADES?????? Look like new!

[TourIQ]

After playing a couple of rounds this weekend with some of the better players at my club and peeking in the bag of others I noticed something. Most of them were using midsized to oversized game improvement irons. I wonder, playing well or not, should I be looking at some game improvement irons?

Hi Geoff

I'm a mid capper and love the look of little offset, thin topline, medium to thinner sole width, a shallow cavity back. For me I want a little extra distance heel to toe, so I opted for the KZG original Cavity Back, otherwise I would be playing MP-30's.

When my son went to tiny headed blades (20-year old Muirfields) his ballstriking improved almost immediately, as the head size was so small it made him concentrate more. Now he plays MP-30's and will for the next 15 years. I wonder how many guys go with 'shovels' only to commit less on the shot thinking they have 'more forgiveness'. Maybe why those 4 to 9 cappers are not 0 to 3 now!

My favourite 431 SS iron of ALL time was the original Golfsmith Tour Cavity that B Leisky played on the PGA tour. At the time GS sold their Harvey Penick Classic Player iron for Seniors. Guess what, 1 head touted as good for a PGA player, the other head touted good for a senior player. At address they were virtually IDENTICAL. I think the original tooling was the same with minor changes made to the back design. I still have both heads, now nearly 10 years old, just to show people the lack of difference in head. What was different was the marketing > audience.

My short answer to your question is 'NO' > play what fits your eye at address!

[TourIQ]

I know one thing, there will be a hybrid in my bag when the time comes I can play again. Trust me, I have already narrowed it down to 2 different brands.


PS Anyone wanna buy a MINT SET OF FORGED BLADES?????? Look like new!

Hi Golfbum

1. I hope the Nickent Genex 3DX is 1 of your 2 choices ...

2. I've seen pic's of your MINT Forged Blades and they are definitely candy.
One of the nicest I've seen, so someone better pm you and take them off your hands.

Also - I pick up my new Callaway Ti 454 13* driver next week. Then to reshaft it to 335.

[Golfbum]

Hi Golfbum

1. I hope the Nickent Genex 3DX is 1 of your 2 choices ...

2. I've seen pic's of your MINT Forged Blades and they are definitely candy.
One of the nicest I've seen, so someone better pm you and take them off your hands.

Also - I pick up my new Callaway Ti 454 13* driver next week. Then to reshaft it to 335.

HI TourIQ

Yes the Nickent is one of the 2 candidates for the hybrid selection. The other is a Cobra. However until I can fully swing a golf club there will not be a decision made on this matter.

As for the TNT forged blades, there might come a day when I list them either here or on ebay. I wonder if Dave Barr still has his sets kicking around?

[downhillslider]

Lets do a lie test.

[Chieflongtee]

Geoff does not lie Just kidding Les.

[Txxxxxxx]

In my opinion, after looking at the replies in the "Average Score" thread, most people on this site should be using "game improving" irons. Why would you not? I don't understand why people are buying cut muscle irons or blades...The only people using blades should be scratch players or Tour professionals.