Whaley to play in Greater Hartford Open

[jimrobin]

Let's stir the pot.


Suzy Whaley has decided to enter the Greater Hartford Open in July, where she will become the first woman to qualify and play in a PGA TOUR event. She qualified for the tournament by winning the PGA Connecticut Sectional in September, the first woman to do so. She played from a forward set of tees, meaning she played a course 10 percent shorter than the men, at Ellington Ridge Country Club.

To me, if she qualified then she should be allow to play, and I'd like to see her play. But to play from a set of forward tees at 10% shorter, she didn't REALLY qualify. This is like cheating on every hole. How can the PGA allow this????? This is BRUTAL!!!!!!
You can't have some rules for some and not others.
If she wants to play with the men, that's fine, but she should qualify from the same set of tees. Whoever allowed this is making a joke of the PGA. Gary, any comment???????

[4jag]

I think the only person who should really be pissed at this is the guy she beat out for the spot. If she'd played from the men's tees then some other deserving guy would be playing in this PGA event instead of her.

That said I think this is good for golf - tonnes of media exposure, encouraging to young golfers especially girls. I hope she does well but she really doesnt' stand a chance.

On top of the media spotlight that she'll be playing in she'll have to play the Tour tees and the combo of extra distance, tough rough, fast greens and killer pin placements will surely do her in. We could see the first 100+ score on tour (can anyone confirm this).

[NoBack]

I totally agree with jimrobin on this one. I read that this morning and thought the same thing.

How could she qualify from the ladies tees against guys playing form (at times) 100 yrds back?

Martha ????

[Gary Hill]

The PGA (Professional Golfers Association) and CPGA (Canadian Professional Golfers Association) commonly allow women and Seniors to play from forward tees.

(This is also the case for professional events in the Ottawa Zone)

The PGA holds tournaments all across the country to determine regional section winners.

If that regional section happens to host a PGA TOUR event (note: the PGA TOUR is a completely separate body from the PGA of America), the PGA TOUR, as a courtesy to the PGA of America, makes a spot available for the sectional winner.

Would there be all this fuss if a Senior club pro had qualified from the forward tees?

FYI - The PGA TOUR has a condition of competion that all players must play from the same tees.

[jimrobin]

I was thinking that already.
It is just like a senior or a junior player played from forward tees. I don't think that's right at all.

Everyone should play the same set of rules, course, course length, etc. to make the competition as fair as possible.

If seniors want to play forward tees, then play in a senior event where everyone plays forward tees.
Same for Juniors.
Same for Ladies.
Same for Jr. Ladies.
If you want to play with the men, then play like the men.

[powerlefty]

Will she struggle from the back tees - almost certainly. But she certainly should be allowed to play. Every PGA Tour event also has a limited number of sponsors exemptions (around a half dozen per event I think) that they can give out to anyone they choose and those receiving the exemptions don't have to qualify in any way at all. At least this lady played by the rules that were set down. As for length, from what I understand she did not play from the "ladies" tees but rather from the tees where the LPGA would normally play from, i.e. the equivalent of about a 6500 yard course as compared to the 7000 or so that is normal on the PGA Tour. It's unlikely she would have gotten a 100 yard break on any single hole (more like an average of 30 yards) but possibly some around 50-60 yards, sort of like playing Eagle Creek from the second longest set of tees rather than from the tips.

[jimrobin]

To me that's not the point!!!

It doesn't matter if they are 30 yards ahead or 100 yards ahead, my feelings are anything to do with the PGA tour, they should all play from the same tees. Whether its a qualifying event or the actual tournament.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see her do well also, but if she wants to play against the men, she plays from the Men's tees. If she wants to play from tees that are about LPGA distances, then play in the LPGA. My feelings.

[el tigre]

I agree with powerlefty and Gary on this one.

If we were talking about a SENIOR club pro who qualified from these tees, we would never hear a peep about this. For all we know, that has already happened.

1) She played according to the rules of the competition, and she won. She is entitled to the benefits of winning.

2) It's easy for "armchair quarterbacks" to say that an extra 500 yards on the course was the difference between winning and losing, but the fact is we don't REALLY know. Obviously, the course would have been more challenging, but whether or not she could have overcome that challenge - we'll never know until it happens.

3) The PGA has always allowed "sponsor exemptions", which are used for people who would not otherwise "qualify" to play. Let's face it - Arnie and Jack have not been "qualifed" to play on the PGA Tour for many, many years based on their tournament play, but they play in whatever tournaments they want (taking a spot away from someone else) due to "sponsor exemptions" - and nobody ever seems to have a problem with that. Sue is really getting to play because of a "sponsor exemption" from the Greater Hartford Open - only she had to earn it by winning a golf tournament. Congratulations to her, and I'm sure she'll play in the GHO just as well as the past winners of the PGA Connecticut Sectional have.

[The Shtick]

...and Martha Burk can be her caddy!

[jimrobin]

Sorry, but personally I don't think senior club pros should be allowed to qualify from forward tees either.

Responses to your claims:

1) I don't blame her; yes she played from the rules set for her. That's my biff. She had rules set specifically for her. Which isn't right.

2) Whether it was 5 yards or 500 yards difference, you still have to put the ball in the hole. She obviously had to play well, and obviously did. It’s just that this "Armchair QB" feels that just because she doesn't hit the ball as far as someone else, should she be allowed an advantage? I don't think so.

Let me ask you this, should Corey Pavin be allowed to play 30 yards per hole shorter then Tiger because that's the difference of their driving avg.
-Do guys in the NBA get higher or lower baskets because or their height?
-Do guys in the NHL get larger nets because their shot isn't as hard?
- In MLB do... you get my point.

If she wants to play with the men, she should play from Men tees, qualifying or actual tournament.

3) She wasn't given a sponsor exemption. She was a qualifier. There's a difference. Sp.Ex. you're given a spot. Qualifier you have to earn a spot and she earned it (but with an advantage).
If they wanted her in the GHO that bad, she should have been given a Sp.Ex, -- NOT THE UNFAIR ADVANTAGE.



Let me ask you this;
I know I'm playing the devil's advocate here but:

- Should a man be allowed to qualify for the LPGA, if he agrees to play from tees that are farther back, then the LPGA tees?
Isn't this kinda what they are doing?

[Izzy]

this whole debate reminds me of one which is virtualy identical to a debate that has taken place at our club involving a match play event. the rules for the event stated that competetors play from the tees that they normally play from (ones they used to determine handicap). this resulted in many matches where two competetors would play play against each other but from different tees with handicap. My contention, and for those who are voicing the opinion that something is wrong with the rules as they were set up for the qualifying phase of the GHO is that competetors are PLAYING DIFFERENT COURSES. It does not matter that competetors in an event may be of different ages, sex, or handicaps, the essence is that they compete against each other on the SAME COURSE not a different one. It seems to me that the rules of golf are written to ensure fairness. What could be more fair than two golfers (or group of golfers) playing the same course and what is more unfair that playing different courses (just see how the slope changes on every course depending on what tees one plays from). (HEY GARY IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT THIS IN THE BIG BOOK OR IT IS JUST ASSUMED THAT COMPETETORS ARE PLAYING THE SAME COURSE).
The other side of the coin is that Suzy and all other golfers involved in the qualifying event followed the rules of the event. That - following the rules as spelled out in the rules of golf and the event - is crucial and IS GOLF! So congratulations and may she do well in the GHO.

[powerlefty]

Tournament rules were established. She played by the rules. She won. Case closed.

She'll probably finish dead last and miss the cut after 2 rounds at the 2003 GHO but so what. Maybe the GHO should change their rules about who they give qualifying spots to. Or maybe the regional PGA event she won should change their tournament rules for next year.

I think people should be more concerned about the half dozen or so guys that get a free ride into every PGA Tour event on sponsors' exemptions. Arnie and Jack (and Greg Norman much to Tim Finchim's chargrin) are actually PGA Tour members (lifetime due to winning 20 or more events) so they can enter an event whenever they want subject only to the normal priority rules the PGA Tour has for establishing the field (that's where they sort out who takes precedence from the top 125, the 35 from Q school, the lifetime members, the next 25 on the money list, etc., etc.). The sponsors exemption guys don't have to do anything to get in except convinve the sponsor. Hell I could even get in if I could convince a tournament sponsor althjough I would likely shoot a pair of 100s and maybe kill a few spectators with errant drives. :gbinstagi

[em69]

Originally posted by el tigre
Let's face it - Arnie and Jack have not been "qualifed" to play on the PGA Tour for many, many years based on their tournament play, but they play in whatever tournaments they want (taking a spot away from someone else) due to "sponsor exemptions"

Eltigre...bad choice of example

Arnie and Jack have"not been qualified"??? Are you serious? Did you know that when you win 20 tournaments you automatically "qualify" to play in any PGA Tournament you want.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe both Arnie and Jack have won more than 20 tournaments.

[powerlefty]

The priority ranking is on the PGA Tour website.

http://www.pgatour.com/information/2002_exempt.html

Actually winning 20 events is the 19th criteria.

[el tigre]

No, I didn't know that winning 20 tournaments "automatically" qualified you to play in any PGA tournament, so I guess Arnie & Jack were bad examples. A questionable criteria IMHO for an organization that is supposed to showcase the BEST athletes in their sport.

Anyway, I was merely pointing out there are other people playing in PGA tournaments that do not deserve to be there based on their recent play. As powerlefty pointed out, the sponsor exemption guys do nothing to earn their spot.

jimrobin, nobody "wanted" Sue Whaley in the GHO - she got the spot by winning a tournament. I don't understand how you can believe that it would have been fairer if she had been GIVEN a sponsor exemption. Nothing is more unfair than being GIVEN something that everyone else has to EARN, simply because of who you know.

[Kilroy]

Sponsors exemptions are usually given to up and comming players, not to just any friend of the sponsor. It is meant to allow the sponsor to have a say on the invitation list at thier own tournament. Andre Lacasse used to have a local pro's tournament to qualify and get one of his sponsor's exemptions, so I don't even think it is fair to say that sponsor's exemptions are a gift. I have never seen a CEO's kid in the field shooting 110

[jimrobin]

My point was “This is the PGA tour, not the XYZ men’s night”. Everyone should be playing the same set of tees. While on the course, they should not be giving advantages to some players.

Sponsor exemptions are good for the tournaments. They normally give them out to local pros, celebrities, etc. that can play the game of golf. With these sponsor exemptions, they help with media exposure, ticket sales, etc.

I’d just rather see someone given a full exemption into a tournament, then to make someone qualify with an advantage over the rest of the qualifiers. I guess I look at it as, walk them in the back door, instead of carrying them in the front door (if you know what I mean.)

I hope she does well too (she obviously is a really good golfer). I just think she should of qualified from the same set of tees as everyone else.

No one commented on this:
Let me ask you this;
I know I'm playing the devil's advocate here but:

- Should a male be allowed to qualify for the LPGA, if he agrees to play from tees that are farther back then the LPGA tees (PGA distances)? Isn't this kinda what they are doing?

[em69]

Originally posted by jimrobin

No one commented on this:
- Should a male be allowed to qualify for the LPGA, if he agrees to play from tees that are farther back then the LPGA tees (PGA distances)? Isn't this kinda what they are doing?

Then what would be the point. If he is playing from PGA tees and the women play from LPGA tees he'd then be playing in a level playing field. It is just as challenging as playing against the men.

What's that tournament called where all three tours (SeniorPGA, PGA, LPGA) play against other? They play from their respective tees and the PGA tour does not allows win.

[mr shank]

This is just a moronic situation. The PGA tour is for the best players in the world to compete. If any player cannot compete under the same conditions/rules as the next player then he/she shouldn't be there.

Why even have an LPGA? Logically, if women can play PGA events then surely men can play LPGA events? But logic is for Vulcans so screw that...

Hell, maybe we should bend the rules for spring faced equipment for those who don't hit the ball that far.

And maybe introduce mulligans to the PGA as well to level the playing field for the poorer players.

Also there should be another cup cut on each green the size of say, a bucket, so those who don't practice putting can have a chance.

But really, let's not even count strokes, at the the end of each tournament we'll just have a group hug. :gfiring

[Kilroy]

[jimrobin]

I couldn't agree more.
Letting her play from different tees, is making a joke of the PGA Tour. It's brutal!!!!!

[Gary Hill]

Everyone DOES play from the same tees on the PGA Tour !!!

[JimmyW]

Originally posted by jimrobin
I couldn't agree more.
Letting her play from different tees, is making a joke of the PGA Tour. It's brutal!!!!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jimrobin
Everyone should play the same set of rules, course, course length, etc. to make the competition as fair as possible.
If you want to play with the men, then play like the men.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gary Hill
FYI - The PGA TOUR has a condition of competion that all players must play from the same tees.


I assume you READ the thread you started, didn't you Jim??

[jimrobin]

Sorry Jimmy W, I should have worded it,
"Letting her QUALIFY from different tees is making a joke of the PGA tour."
In her qualifying, she PLAYED from closer tees, didn’t she????

I realize at the GHO tournament she'll be playing the same tees like the men, I just feel she should have played like the men right from the start.

Sorry to confuse you.

[4jag]

The PGA Tour has nothing to do with this. She qualified in a sectional event governed under the PGA, not the PGA Tour.

As Gary pointed out everyone will be playing under the same rules from the same tees for the PGA Tour tournament in Hartford.

So why does it matter how she qualified? Every PGA tourney has sponsorship spots that are given out. The sponsor can give spots to players that haven't qualified in any way shape or form, from any set of tees. At least she had to *win* something to get there.

She qualified under the existing rules as strange as they may seem, but what is done is done. She earned her way there so let's cheer her on.

Now if only they can figure out a way to allow her to count only her Thurs. score towards the cut. We might get to see her play the weekend.

[em69]

I certainly agree with 4Jag.

She qualified based on rules and criteria set by the PGA Tour...it's that simple. There's no reason to be upset. Go complain to the PGA Tour and have them change their qualifiers.

[jimrobin]

To me its the point of it all.
This may sound backwards but.....
I'd rather see them give her a spot then to give her an advantage at qualifying. (My personal opinion)

IT SHOULD BE EITHER BLACK OR WHITE. In the GHO with a sponsors exemption or you have to qualify. Don't start bringing in grey areas she has to qualify BUT.... can use tees that are closer. To me this can lead to problems in the future. Example-She got this advantage, why can't I get this one.... etc. etc. etc.

To me once on the course everyone should play the same tees, rules, etc. If they'll going to make her qualify, then she should qualify the same as everyone else.

BTW: I loved Mr Shank's post.

[mr shank]

QUOTE]Originally posted by 4jag
[B]The PGA Tour has nothing to do with this. She qualified in a sectional event governed under the PGA, not the PGA Tour.

but wait...

Originally posted by em69
I certainly agree with 4Jag.

She qualified based on rules and criteria set by the PGA Tour...it's that simple. There's no reason to be upset. Go complain to the PGA Tour and have them change their qualifiers.

So if I have this right, the PGA and the PGA Tour are two totally different animals independent of each other?
If that is the case, why does the PGA decide what the criteria is to qualify for a PGA Tour event?

[JimmyW]

So if I have this right, the PGA and the PGA Tour are two totally different animals independent of each other?
If that is the case, why does the PGA decide what the criteria is to qualify for a PGA Tour event?
mr shank


If that regional section happens to host a PGA TOUR event (note: the PGA TOUR is a completely separate body from the PGA of America), the PGA TOUR, as a courtesy to the PGA of America, makes a spot available for the sectional winner.

Gary Hill

Sorry jimrobin, not confused at all

JW

[em69]

At least when she does play the event, she will play by the same rules and tees as the men. Unlike some other player who rides a cart during PGA Tour tournaments.