Dottie Pepper on Wie

[fundonny]

Reid, I'll give you that my slow play comments were chauvinistic. But no where did I ever mention anything about being anti-woman in golf. You writing what you wrote touched a nerve because there are lines people in my business cannot cross or they get fired. I've mentioned in repeated posts my support for women's golf, I watch women's golf, I read about women's golf. I'm married to a woman who enjoys golfing 9 holes and I have a beautiful daughter that will have a set of clubs when she turns 3.

You say you were responding as an OG member, right, providing an opinion. What purpose does your "boring the crap out of me" serve the thread or the discussion? I may be opinionated, but I've never tried to shoot someone down or say anything, for lack of a better word, mean, to anyone (except that powerdriver or whatever his name was).

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but I just thought it was way out of line and frankly unprofessional (as a moderator, not an OG member).

[Indio]

Where in my post did I say you had questioned my right to provide an opinion? I was just saying why I was providing my opinion...

When you start off a thread by saying 'Indio, Despite being a moderator I am entitled to state my opinions in threads as well.' that sound sto me like you are insinuating that I was questioning your rights. I would never question ANYONE's rights. It is a fundamental gift we all have and no one shoud question people's rights unless they are breaking the law.

And to boot, you had already responded to my post about me being surprised with your response and instead you chose to respond by quoting something I had responded to Dan.

[1972Apex]

Sigh...

I give up guys. Make whatever controversial statements you want without fear of comment from me. But if you want to be that sensitive I would suggest you stick to topics like 'please help me with my swing'.

Reid

[fundonny]

ANYWAY!!!!!!!! The whole point of this thread was to introduce another high profile golfer/media members RECENT comments on the subject. If, while reading all my magazines, I come across a pro-Wie article, I'll post that too (although I'll probably throw in a tongue in cheek comment).

["Richard"]

dude, every single wie thread started in the last 6 months has been by you! I think you are obsessed with her!

[dH]

I think if Wie is driven she should keep on; end of highschool start of University are just waste of time and all you do is hang out with other kids and get bad influences if she wants to be a pro golfer start now instead of wasting time. I've said it before and I"ll say it again; I'd probably be alot richer if I never went to University all you do is pick up bad habits and a worthless piece of paper.

[fundonny]

Dude, she's the hottest topic in golf, and one of the hottest in all of sports. It's fun talking about her because people are pretty passionate about their positions. Good stuff!

I'm the Pardon The Interruption guy, you're the Just For Laughs guy!

dude, every single wie thread started in the last 6 months has been by you! I think you are obsessed with her!

[spidey]

all you do is pick up bad habits and a worthless piece of paper.

I guess it's pretty plain that you hung out with the right people and worked on the right degree.

[Nat Williams]

I'd probably be alot richer if I never went to University all you do is pick up bad habits and a worthless piece of paper.

I can't argue with that

[fundonny]

Maybe we should start a poll on who went to University, or finished university! LOL!
I did not, but I want to go back one day and get a degree in thothonomics! (Economics)

[SGH]

Alright, this thread has probably been the most entertaining I've read in a while. This is not to say that I encourage the behaviour shown; however, the progression from talking about Wie to discussion Universtiy credentials has been quite a journey.

My personal opinion stands put - which is to say that the PGA is currently at a major fork in the road. It can either continue to be a forum for the best golfers (male or female) to showcase their talent and compete OR it can operate more like big-business. Under the former situation, all tournaments should be run through qualifiers and tour exemptions (as a result of past victories). Under the latter format, corporate exemptions should play a major role in dictating the playing field. The PGA can't have it's cake and eat it too. By this I mean, the big purses and filled grandstands do come at a price - the integrity of the game.

Should Michelle Wie play in PGA events? That will depend on which path the PGA takes. Considering that we live in the 21st century and money talks, I would predict that Michelle Wie will play on the PGA tour. I do hope; however, that she eventually qualifies for the tour or graciously denies corporate exemptions after a few years. But once again - money talks.


In regards to the university question, I'm one year away from graduating with a degree in business administration. Hopefully my piece of paper isn't worthless considering it's costing me about $5K annually.

[3Jack]

It's a forum for discussion, let us discuss. No one forces you to participate.

I have participated in couple of the previous Wie threads, and have asked you to respond to a number of my requests for responses to my takes, but you choose to ignore them. That's your perogative.

I for one, will be ignoring your Wie takes from here on in. By now we know your take on the topic. There's nothing new to be said, from either camp.

[dH]

At University I actually graduated w/ a BBA double major and a minor. Was elected part of the Commerce society until I dropped it as it was lame. Basically in University you either go nuts; pick up some vices and make it through to a long happy life OR you drop out / get kicked out or you study all the time and become a loser who is prone to have a mid life crisis. Either way University is good to get your foot in the door but if you don't have it what it takes it doesn' t matter what kind of a degree you have. That being said a degree is a great way to work for someone elses dream; make someone else rich. Henry Ford uber successfully was libeled as "ignorant" he said " why do I need to know everything if I can surround myself w/ a group that collectively knows almost everything". Great point that being said University is the final stage of your "conditioning" to follow orders; perform menial tasks and basically herd you into a world of paper pushing zombies. Remember without these zombies the world wouldn't function; there are so many mindless menial tasks w/ "good titles" and "status" that need to be done on a daily basis. Without this HERD of zombies society as we know it would crumble. Luckly most people are prime to mold into one. You either help someone build their dream or get them to help build yours. You don't need University to start your own business and as you get older dreams become less vivid than in youth.

[fundonny]

This wasn't my "take", I'm providing someone else's take. Ignore away 3jack, i'd rather those that don't contribute do ignore them.

I have participated in couple of the previous Wie threads, and have asked you to respond to a number of my requests for responses to my takes, but you choose to ignore them. That's your perogative.

I for one, will be ignoring your Wie takes from here on in. By now we know your take on the topic. There's nothing new to be said, from either camp.

[fundonny]

I got hired in the government while in school through the Aboriginal Employment Program. Gotta like that!

[3Jack]

This wasn't my "take", I'm providing someone else's take. Ignore away 3jack, i'd rather those that don't contribute do ignore them.

That's the point though. I've contributed and you've chosen to ignore my requests for you to back up your stances on this topic. If you had an original take on the issue rather than your rehashed women-should-stick-to-their-own-tour-and-leave-the-poor-boys-alone, I'd be interested. Otherwise, you simply continue to reveal your ignorance and values of exclusion by continuously pounding this issue.

Oh, but thanks for replying to my post! I'm touched!

[fundonny]

I believe someone else was kind enough to provide you with the quotes you were asking for. And, if you read back, never said women shouldn't play the PGA Tour. And, I thought you were ignoring this already...

Hey, how is my opinion ignorant by the way? There are a lot of ignorant people then. Did you go to university???? LOL

[SGH]

At University I actually graduated w/ a BBA double major and a minor. Was elected part of the Commerce society until I dropped it as it was lame. Basically in University you either go nuts; pick up some vices and make it through to a long happy life OR you drop out / get kicked out or you study all the time and become a loser who is prone to have a mid life crisis. Either way University is good to get your foot in the door but if you don't have it what it takes it doesn' t matter what kind of a degree you have. That being said a degree is a great way to work for someone elses dream; make someone else rich. Henry Ford uber successfully was libeled as "ignorant" he said " why do I need to know everything if I can surround myself w/ a group that collectively knows almost everything". Great point that being said University is the final stage of your "conditioning" to follow orders; perform menial tasks and basically herd you into a world of paper pushing zombies. You either help someone build their dream or get them to help build yours. You don't need University to start your own business and as you get older dreams become less vivid than in youth.

Wow, the crazy thing is that while sitting in the library wednesday, I had a thought very similar to this. I have since had an appointment with my career development coach, and he's assured me that everything is going to be alright (of course it is, that's your job - you get paid to tell me that I should stay the course and continue on my current path).

I am the current president of our commerce society (haha, and now you think I'm lame), and I have quickly realized that nothing I've learned in the classroom is applicable to real-life problems. That is, of course, unless I sit in an office an analyze financial statements for 8 hours a day (god forbid). But the problems I'm having managing people, relationships, time, and other resources are not solved by the skills I've learned in three years of studying business administration.

This is getting way off topic, and probably consitutes a thread jack. Anyway, I'm interested to hear what other University graduates/students think about this. In my opinion, college prepares you much better for the real world, as their studies seem more geared towards practical problems.

If the moderators want this to be moved, or to be the material of a new thread (it is, after all, a new topic), I can easily do so, and sorry for the inconvenience.

[spidey]

ANYWAY!!!!!!!! The whole point of this thread was...

Donny, buddy. While I love to disagree with you (whether I like your point or not), I don't think you deserve being abused. You definitely got the 'walk all over donny' treatment today. Gotta admire a guy who takes it like a man.

Don't give up bud. Lemme tell you, this place gets like a ghost town when there's nobody around like you and thotho.

....and I'm with you, I'd rather have tumbleweeds than powerdriver.

[fundonny]

Don't worry SGH, doesn't bother me any. Multi-topic threads are just as fun!

[fundonny]

Spidey just earned a nice cold beer!

Donny, buddy. While I love to disagree with you (whether I like your point or not), I don't think you deserve being abused. You definitely got the 'walk all over donny' treatment today. Gotta admire a guy who takes it like a man.

Don't give up bud. Lemme tell you, this place gets like a ghost town when there's nobody around like you and thotho.

....and I'm with you, I'd rather have tumbleweeds than powerdriver.

[3Jack]

I believe someone else was kind enough to provide you with the quotes you were asking for. And, if you read back, never said women shouldn't play the PGA Tour. And, I thought you were ignoring this already...

Hey, how is my opinion ignorant by the way? There are a lot of ignorant people then. Did you go to university???? LOL

That someone else was me providing the quotes, which you told me to go lookup. Do you know what ignorant means?

ignorant
adj 1: lacking general education or knowledge; "an ignorant man"; "nescient of contemporary literature"; "an unlearned group incapable of understanding complex issues"; "exhibiting contempt for his unlettered companions" [syn: nescient, unenlightened, unlearned, unlettered] 2: ignorant of the fundamentals of a given art or branch of knowledge; "ignorant of quantum mechanics"; "musically illiterate" [syn: illiterate] 3: lacking basic knowledge; "how can someone that age be so ignorant?"; "inexperienced and new to the real world" [syn: inexperienced] 4: used of things; lacking sense or awareness; "ignorant hope"; "fine innocent weather" [syn: innocent] 5: lacking knowledge or skill; "unversed in the jargon of the social scientist" [syn: unversed] [ant: versed] 6: lacking information or knowledge; "an unknowledgeable assistant" [syn: unknowledgeable, unknowing, unwitting]



The fact is that Michelle, like Tiger did before her, is taking advantage of sponsor's exemptions - which a sponsor can grant based on who they think will enhance the field's marketability, among other reasons. Rather than ragging on Michelle for accepting these exemptions, would it not be more prudent to rail against the sponsors and boycott their products and or services?

Would you rather there be no sponsor's exemptions? If it's wrong for Michelle to have one, then it's wrong for anyone to have one, because the player, be they male or female, obviously have no current standing on the tour, otherwise, they'd not need the exemption.

And, be I woman or man, I reserve the right to change my mind and participate in something (like this thread) that I previously stated I would not.

[SGH]

Personally, I would love to see sponsor exemptions thrown out the window. I really think the PGA is becomming too much of a business.

The PGA can serve its duty without million dollar cash prizes to event winners. True fans and true golfers will watch and participate in the events, and that is what it is about. Why does having a million dollar prize and millions of TV viewers make an event a success? IMO an event where the top 50 players compete to win (i.e. the Player Championship) is a great event, and would continue to be without the corporate influence. Are there holes in this argument? Sure, of course there are. However, I do full-heartedly believe that the PGA can do without the excess corporate support. They have become so dependent on their corproate sponsors that the PGA is becoming more of an advertising campaign rather than a professional sports organization. Does ScotiaBank get to sponsor a local hero to play forward for the Senators? No, of course not. Why is it different in golf? Why do the financial backers of professional golfing events get a say in who participates? This is not the norm in any other sport.

[fundonny]

Okay, this is good stuff, minus the ignorant rant, that's uncalled for!

Tiger Woods was one of the most decorated amateur golfers of all time who became pro towards the end of the golf season back in... 96 was it? He, in my ignorant opinion, was more then deserving of a sponsors exemption, even though the motivation behind the exemption was the same - $$$$$. Also, not to be chauvinistic, but Tiger is male and the PGA Tour is an all-male tour, so there was no (and I use this term again) circus aspect to his playing. It was a foregone conclusion that TW was going to win on tour, and he did very quickly. With Michelle, there is no possibility of her winning.

I don't blame her personally for accepting these exemptions and appearance fees, get it while you can, right? But I just hate that that's what golf has become. That was the motivation behind my Persimmon rant in this week's column.

[3Jack]

Okay, this is good stuff, minus the ignorant rant, that's uncalled for!

You'll notice what I placed in bold in the definition of ignorant... ignorant of the fundamentals and lacking sense or awareness.

The fundamentals are is that it's up to the sponsors to whom the grant exemptions, and that you lack a sense of awareness on this issue with respect to your declaration that the PGA Tour is a men's tour. It's not. Nowhere in its bylaws do they exclude women. You however, seem to think they should.

[fundonny]

No no no, i said it's an all-male tour, which it is and always has been. There's never been a female card carrying PGA member. I personally don't believe a female golfer will earn a tour card during our lifetime. Could be wrong, could be right, time will tell.

[3Jack]

No no no, i said it's an all-male tour, which it is and always has been. There's never been a female card carrying PGA member. I personally don't believe a female golfer will earn a tour card during our lifetime. Could be wrong, could be right, time will tell.

thanks for the clarification... you're right, time will tell...

[fundonny]

And saying that I don't think a woman will earn a tour card doesn't make me anti-woman for god's sake. It means I think there are at least 200 men better then the best female golfer. I actually don't believe the best female golfer can earn a European Tour card or a Nationwide Tour card. Again, could be right or wrong.

[3Jack]

No, it doesn't make you anti-woman, it just makes you a pessimist - wait, actually it doesn't, because one can only be pessimistic about something if one actually wants something to happen, but doesn't think it will. Hmm.

Somewhat mysogynistic yes, but a pessimist, no.

[fundonny]

That statement was more for the mods then you jack. Personally I think it makes me a realist. Men and women are made differently. Women can take more pain, men are built physically stronger. In physical sports, there's a gap. It may have shrunk a bit over the years, but it'll always be there barring some huge shift in genetic makeup. Take that male tennis player that wiped the floor with Venus Williams. He was a nobody and she was ranked number 1.