is this cheating??

["Richard"]

when I play my early rounds I always player very poorly on the front 9 because I've just woken up, am not loose and takes me a few holes and sometimes the entire front nine to get into the swing of things.

Ex. I played with Geoff and donny on wednsday morning and stunk it up on the front 9 (52 or something) but on the back nine shot a 41 which is close to what I shoot on my back 9's if its an early round. If I hit the range for 30min, go for a run before my round I can get into the mid 80s. Anyway, I've been entering the back 9's only for handicapping purposes. Is that allowed? I guess I should just wake up early and do what I need to but who has time to wake up 1hr earlier I dont' have time to wake up 1hr earier than I already do especially with all the drinking that goes on the night before. Evening rounds I enter in full

[Kilroy]

Anyway, I've been entering the back 9's only for handicapping purposes. Is that allowed?

I think you know that selectively entering only your best performance is not going to return a proper handicap. Be it 9's or 18's you are only entering your best this way.

Is it allowed? If you are not a member of the RCGA then your handicap is unofficial so nobody would care. If you are a member then it is not allowed and your handicap is false.

Why would you do this? If you carry a valid but unofficial handicap it is your benchmark for improvement. Will you feel like you have not improved any when you usually shoot 41 on both nines? You will have improved, but your handicap won't reflect it.


There are 2 types of sandbagger.

• The classic kind that would enter higher scores resulting in extra strokes allowed in handicapped competition. The goal is to win by cheating.
• The pride 'bagger is one who likes to claim a handicap that is lower than accurate, because it elevates thier sense of personal worth. These guys get clobbered in handicapped competition because they cannot play to thier 'cap.

[jhazelton]

Of course it is!!!

["Richard"]

I just want my handicap to be accurate of what I shoot. I enter all my afternoon and evening rounds no matter how bad they are but don't enter the front 9 if its first thing in the morning because I'm not loose and usually shank everything since there is no time to warm up... or even hit up the putting green. If I were to enter those scores my HCP would probably be higher than what is accuarte I think but I might be wrong. Right now after 20 rounds I'm at 17.6 or something... which sounds about right since I'll shoot 85 or 86 if I've hit up the range and putt for a good 20 minutes. But I do want to track it properly so if to do that I have to enter the front 9 as well then I will do that. I'm not trying to lower my cheating myself but just trying to be more accurate. It is actually a pattern than I can clearly see. In the mornings my front nine is on average 10 strokes worse than my back 9. It was the same on wed with geoff and donny as well. Because I was playing for fun I didn't enter that round anyway but had I been playing to handicap I wouldn't have been moving the ball, hitting balls that were out of bounds and so on.

Anyway, I guess to avoid this I'll just wake up a bit earlier and go for a run to loosen up and maybe try to get there a bit early and hit some balls and putts. THanks danny boy

["Richard"]

Of course it is!!!

Just thought it might not be since you can enter just 9 holes if you played just 9 holes. So if you make the decission not to enter the front nine or not to play it for handicap purposes or just to warm up and then play the back nine for that it might be allowed. That was the thought process anyway

[Kilroy]

you can enter just 9 holes if you played just 9 holes

[Kilroy]

I don't want to enter the rounds played in bad weather because

• I play better when it's sunny.
• I play better when its not windy
• I play better when it's warmer / cooler
• etc...

["Richard"]

got it warm up before rounds it is then. Goal is to get down to a 15hcp, I thought 10 was realistic but I'm a long time away from that still

[Kilroy]

Maybe further than you think

[sharkhark]

Geez I wish I thought of this first. I was happy I am down to about an 11. But if I just picked out my best holes I am scratch! Yipppppppppppeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

[BullDog]

Geez I wish I thought of this first. I was happy I am down to about an 11. But if I just picked out my best holes I am scratch! Yipppppppppppeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

Me too. I'd enter just the front 9 at Champlain from this past Wednesday. I had a double on #1 and a triple on #3. I won't enter those. I might enter the bogey on 7 but I certainly will enter the 6 pars I had on the remaining holes.

I'm a better golfer than I thought!

[jonf]

Dan, I think you should set up some automatic reply mechanism, so that any time Richard asks if something is allowed, it just automatically replies "NO". It would save us all a lot of time.

["Richard"]

I've seen people who keep handicaps not enter rounds for various reasons.. what are some valid reasons not to enter a round?

[Kilroy]

The only reasons would be a team event such as alternate shot or a scramble, where you don't have a score or a "practice round" where you play multiple balls practice shots and play other than within the rules of golf.

Ie: none of your friends rounds can be entered.

You cannot decide after starting that "this is a practice round so I won't enter it" or "I'll only enter part of it".

["Richard"]

so if you played 18 holes as practice you can jump back on and play the 18 again for capping purposes?

[fireice]

Is it cheating

IMHO Yes, your just making excuses(Get there earlier, stretch, hit balls whatever you have to do)
Your handicap would not be an accurate indication of your ability then if your only putting in the last 9. Most of my front 9s are higher than my back 9s regardless of the time, day, raining, fog, bugs, pints, whatever. I still enter all 18. Just my 2 cents.

[Kilroy]

so if you played 18 holes as practice you can jump back on and play the 18 again for capping purposes?

Yes. Most people very rarely play practice rounds. I always play it to count. Practice on the range.

["Richard"]

Yes. Most people very rarely play practice rounds. I always play it to count. Practice on the range.

so why can't you break your 18 into into two 9's and use the first one for practice? I'm not really asking if anyone agrees with this, I wnt to know if there is tech. anything wrong with what I've been doing? If there is something tech wrong with what I've been doing then do I just start entering the scores "properly" and let it readjust itself or do I have to start over?

[Kilroy]

The "Practice round" is intended to cover things like scouting a course for an event, as the pros do. Finding the preferred landing areas, playing different shots into greens to see the bounce, measuring the course, getting a feel for the greens etc. It is not intended to be used as an excuse for crapping out on the front nine.

Do whatever you want. I am not the handicap chairman.

["Richard"]

no problem, its easily fixed, just wake up earlier and hit some balls, warmup and strech before I go out. Now, if I've been doing it wrong for the past two years on my early morning rounds how do I correct it? just delete them all? let my 18 hole afternoon) totals determine my handicap? It would probably be about the same (the reason Id idn't see the big deal). Or just leave it and let it re-adjust now?

[Kilroy]

You play enough that I'd just leave it and expect it to climb. Just dont consider it accurate until all the tainted rounds fall off the bottom. Handicap is only your last 20 rounds so older than that is irrelevant.
I only say this since yours is unoffiicial. It would take some fiddling to fix it if it were official.

[Golfbum]

Reverse Sandbagging.
He isn't hurting anyone but himself. Why? Simple. If he enters a handicap tournament based on his best 9 hole scores only there is no way he is going to be close to his index for 18. So if he has a false index (which he does) of let's say 9, then when he shoots a score of 95 he will lose 9 strokes at best. (The hardest 9 holes he will lose a stroke)
Good Luck, you are only cheating yourself, or your partner in a Two Man Best Ball event.
Making excuses for not being ready to play doesn't wash with most golfers. Show up early, warm up, eat a proper breakfast and be ready to play. Even if there is no range you can still warm up without hitting balls.

["Richard"]

i have no plans to play in any such events Golfbum. Its more for personal stats. Track my improvements. Even if I take out ALL my morning rounds and not played them because I hate waking up early because I know I am never prepared for my morning rounds my handicap changes by very little. If a hnadicap is supposed to be an idication of your score mine is pretty accurate right now. All of you are completely off base in thinking my HCP would go up significantly if I pulled all the back nines that I entered. Yes I agree the HCP would go up had I entered the front nine on all the rounds as well but if I knew then that you had to enter the front 9 as well I would have warmed up and gotten ready for my rounds like I do for my afternoon rounds or maybe not even played them. 10 strokes difference is a huge difference between the front and back... it happens so consistently that there can't be any other reason for it other than what I've stated above. I'm going to use my golf software and drop al the 9's I've played and will let you guys know exactly how much of a difference it made in my HCP.. I'm guess it will make no difference at all since what I shoot on my back nine of morning rounds is just 1/2 of what I shoot on 18 in my later rounds.

[sharkhark]

Hey, I just played a crappy round. Shot 86 on the exact same course I played and shot my career low, a 76 just a week ago.
I really don't want to enter it, to see my handicap shoot up a point. But thats just what a handicap is.
A balance between your worst and your best.
Can't pick and choose. Otherwise might as well replay bad shots cuz "normally I don't shank the ball".

["Richard"]

what course?

you posting anymore swing videos?

[jonf]

10 strokes difference is a huge difference between the front and back... it happens so consistently that there can't be any other reason for it other than what I've stated above. I'm going to use my golf software and drop al the 9's I've played and will let you guys know exactly how much of a difference it made in my HCP.. I'm guess it will make no difference at all since what I shoot on my back nine of morning rounds is just 1/2 of what I shoot on 18 in my later rounds.

There is actually a very simple reason. First off, it doesn't take 9 holes to warm up. By the end of the third hole, you will have taken plenty of swings/practise swings. The other 6 holes are just poor play. One very likely reason that your front nines are better is because you start out that 18 with a specific goal in mind (ie, I want to break 90). So, you are starting that round with some pressure. Mentally, this is a harder way to golf. Every time you bogey, or double, you start thinking about that oh-so-glorious 89 that is slipping away. By the time the 9 is done, you've thought yourself out of a score you may well be physically capable of. You've shot a 52, and you know your chances of breaking 90 are minuscule, so you're playing relaxed, just trying to hit the best shot you can every time you step up to the ball, but not worrying too much about results. Not surprisingly, with no real pressure, your scores improve. That's how the golf gods work. If they let you go 52-52, you'd never come back. If you go 52-42, however, its simply more reason to head out to the course.

[Kilroy]

If a hnadicap is supposed to be an idication of your score mine is pretty accurate right now.

This is not correct.

All of you are completely off base in thinking my HCP would go up significantly if I pulled all the back nines that I entered.

Not the correct proceedure. You are selectvely eliminating all your "bad games"

Yes I agree the HCP would go up had I entered the front nine on all the rounds as well

This is the correct proceedure and your 52s would make your hcp climb significantly. If you do not play competitive rounds using handicap then it's only a marker of improvement. No worries, there is no shame in being higher than you want to be. Just more room for improvement, which could be measured accurately.

If you are manipulating scores to look better than you are, then there is absolutely no point in tracking a handicap other than to tell your buddies I'm a 17 when you are more like 20. In this case, why enter any scores? Just tell them you are a 5. It sounds way better than 17.

By the way 52+41 is 93. I am 17.0 today (16.4 last week, but I stunk up my last 2 rounds) All current rounds are between 85 and 95 with an average of 91. I have 9 rounds in the 80s and 11 in the low 90s. It seems to me like your looking at this round as 2 rounds of 104 & 82 You hate the 104, and like the 82. Neither is true. You shot 93. 2 strokes above your claimed 'cap average.

If you want an accurate handicap suck it up and go back and add the front nines in and then enter them all from now on. Removing the back nines you entered is just more manipulation. Letting it ride untill they fall off is OK, but you don't have a 'cap untill the last one falls off.

[Vokey Design]

I've seen people who keep handicaps not enter rounds for various reasons.. what are some valid reasons not to enter a round?

Go out with a 5 iron, 9 iron, and a putter ... just go out and play with these three clubs, this will improve your feel and trajectory control ... and you will be surprised how well you can score with only 3 clubs!

aside from this there is only 2 times when I dont track scores.

1 - If I play with the wife (she doesnt track a handicap or even keep score)
So I practice shots that I wouldnt usually play unless I am in trouble ...
2 - If I dont get a full 9 holes in ... this happens alot because I work in a pro shop and often another worker and I will take off in a cart after a shift and jump holes to avoid the slow players. Its a great job!

Here is an easy rule to follow ... If you bring a score card ENTER THE SCORE.

[Kilroy]

I once asked a 12 handicap who was pouting about a bad game (he felt 85 sucked) what score would have made him happy. He replied "76". I asked him how many times he had shot 76, and he replied (after some prodding) "Never, but I know I can do it!"

The point is that a lot of people need a reality check. You "know you can" IF... But that's a big "if" Count what you do, not what you "know" you can do.

[fundonny]

Even a golfer who has no business making a shot that he thinks he can make gets angry when he doesn't make it. I know one of those types, really really really really really well. Handsome guy, loves football...