is this cheating??

["Richard"]

Declare it a practice before teeing off and it is practice.

You just can't call it practice after shooting poorly (and can't double back and say it counted if it was good )

Are you offically allowed to do this because that is exactly what I've been doing it. I never came right out and said "this is a practice round" but I've told my FC "I'm not entering this score so don't bug me about moving the ball here and there or re-dropping a ball or playing winter rules" and tell them that if we are playing for dinner or for drinks.. its the back 9 score that counts. I try to fade and draw the ball, I try to lag putt, I try to bump and run onto the green instead of pitching on.. IF you are allowed to do this then I have done nothing wrong. I'm not slectively enterting to good holes, the good nine.. I'm deciding only to enter the back nine prior to the round. I'm still going to warm up properly and strech and putt before each round in the AM now but atleast if you are right then I know my handicap isn't wrong right now. Do you have a rule# for this?

[sharkshooter]

... I never came right out and said "this is a practice round" but I've told my FC "I'm not entering this score so don't bug me about moving the ball here and there or re-dropping a ball or playing winter rules" and tell them that if we are playing for dinner or for drinks...

For me, this highlights the confusion on this thread. In this post, you say you dind't announce that it was a practice 9, but that you made it clear to your competitors/friends before the round. I don't see that in your earlier posts on the thread.

["Richard"]

"So if you make the decision not to enter the front nine or not to play it for handicap purposes or just to warm up and then play the back nine for that it might be allowed."

"That’s what I was doing, only entered the backs... not because they were better but because that is what I said I would do. “

"Anyway, I honestly don't see the big deal in going to a course and saying before the round that you are only entering your back 9."

Those are all quotes from what I've said earlier through out the thread. If I'm playing with close friends they already know if there are small wagers... it’s only on the back nine. Sometimes I need to remind them but I've never come out and said "this is warm-up, I'm only handicapping the back nine" But I have said, any side bets ($1 a hole, $0.25 a stroke) are only on the back 9. But that is what I've ALWAYS done for early morning rounds. Ex. I shot an 89 in one of my morning rounds, shot a 98 in one of my evening rounds but entered the full 98 and only the back nine on the 89 because I told myself regardless of what I shoot on the front nine in the morning, I will not be entering it. At first the point of this thread was to find out if what I was doing was permitted by the rules of handicapping. Still not sure if it allowed or not so I'm just going to play it safe, I'm going to pull all the back 9 scores, and just let the handicap re-adjust itself. If its a morning round, depending on now much stretching, putting, drinking was done I might declare the entire round a practice but still play by all the rules and then not enter the score regardless of how low I go... but then what is the difference between that and just saying "I'm using the front nine as practice" and regardless of the score only enter the back?

Like I said before, I'll just make sure I stretch, get their early, hit a few balls and warm up properly before the round and just play it like everyone else. I guess if play very badly it will be one of the scores that is thrown out anyway

One of the reasons I’m' still on this subject is because I've improved a lot over the last two years and I have been tracking my improvement since last year and it would suck if I've been doing it wrong. I am very happy with how much better I've gotten and the only way to gauge that is my handicap. Although I wasn't doing anything with the intention to artificially lower my handicap, if that is what I've inadvertently done I want to fix it. I'm not cheating anyone but myself which is even worse. So I've heard two different answers, what I've done is allowed, what I've done isn't allowed... does anyone know for sure? I guess it doesn't matter anyway, I'll play 20+ rounds over the next 3 months anyway and I'll just enter all of them and see what happens, but it would be nice to know if my 17.6 is actually accurate or not

[Tanglegrip]

Looked at from a purist's point of view, and according to the RoG a stipulated round (stroke play) is 18 holes. You should be entering all of your rounds, good, bad, or just plain ugly and if you play 18 holes then you are obligated to enter the score for all 18, not just the nine you like best.

Now in the case of today's thunderstorm shortened games, 6 holes and a pretty good tee shot on 7, I have no way to enter just the 6 holes I played for my handicap. (actually I could but more on that in another post). Lucky for me it turns out the 6 holes were free because of the raincheck we received.

From a practical standpoint if you played 10 morning rounds and 10 afternoon rounds, and you always shot worse in the morning, then your handicap is based on your 10 afternoon rounds. As Dan pointed out the handicap is calculated on the best 10 of your last 20 games, and in your case these would only be the afternoon rounds. A good indication of your handicap would be to delete the 9 holes games since you always shoot worse in the morning and are counting only your afternoon games.

Now if you entered 20 afternoon rounds, its still only calculated on your best 10. Your handicap would probably be lower than if you included all your rounds, but not if you including the 9 hole "games". Including the 9 hole scores does not reflect your real handicap.

To solve your 9 holes of practice in the morning, its really simple, just don't count your strokes for the whole game.

[bbad]

Hey Thotho...you can do 1 of two things:

either move to england (5 hours ahead), or just put your watch forward.

Goes to show you that this game is played all within 6 inches....b/w the ears..

Another suggestion...why are you playing in the morning? Just play in the afternoon and save yourself the aggrevation.

["Richard"]

sometimes my friends want to ply in the mornings to get a quicker round in. Sometimes its all thats available, sometimes its to beat the weather to the course, and other times I'm flying out later and need to get it in before I leave

[nice_lag]

Well I thought that I could ignore this thread but I can't. Even now, I'm still thinking of not posting anything since some would consider this trolling but as a certified handicap official, I just can't.

If you play between 7 and 12 holes, you have to enter a score for 9 holes. If you play 13 or more holes, you have to enter a score for 18 holes. Yes there is a procedure for the remainder of the holes (most likely score, ESC, etc). The GAO has a good handbook available on their site to explain it all.

So, if prior to the first 9, you announce that this 9 is a practice round, then so be it. You can do whatever you want. If you solely announce that it is a practice round, therefore all 18 holes are practice and the score isn't allowable to be posted. Golf is based on honesty and all scores are subject to Peer Review.

Bottom line is, if you inflate your score (ie sandbagging), it is possible for your score to be adjusted. If you only enter your good rounds, or nines, (ie vanity handicap), then you do yourself , and your club a disfavour. I wouldn't want to be a teammate of someone with an ego handicap but I would gladly play a handicapped match-play event against the same person; I love to be given easy strokes like that.

And looking at this thread, I'd be interested to see some handicaps. I think I might just take a look at the GAO scoring database tonight as a matter of fact (anyone who is a member of a golf club paying dues to the GAO is in there). I will ask the question to the GAO gurus though.

["Richard"]

"So, if prior to the first 9, you announce that this 9 is a practice round, then so be it."

Thats what I've been doing. Just wanted to know if it was allowed by rules.

[nice_lag]

Sometimes I need to remind them but I've never come out and said "this is warm-up, I'm only handicapping the back nine"

"So, if prior to the first 9, you announce that this 9 is a practice round, then so be it." Thats what I've been doing. Just wanted to know if it was allowed by rules.

Man, you're confusing the heck out of me. I went back and read the whole thread again, and this story is full of contradictory statements like the ones above. I will not take back what I said but I will certainly comment on it.

For as much as "I" know, you're not breaking Rules of Golf, if you announce your intent prior to beginning your round. But it must be clearly stated: "The following 9 holes are a practice round". What you do after is your own decision. For all I care, you can get into the clubhouse, have breakfast, lunch and dinner, come out and play another nine, counting for your handicap. As I said before, golf is about honesty and if your handicap doesn't reflect reality, you're only cheating yourself; unless you enter competitions or amateur tours like the NGCT, the Mulligan Tour and the likes.

If you maintain an official handicap, you can't remove scores without the approval of your Handicapping Committee. And you better come up with outstanding reasons. The only valid one I have received at my Club is a guy coming back to playing after heart surgery.

In the end, you do what you want to do. I'm only going to care if we play each other or are paired together; even more if you're asking to dish out some greens. It is stories like that which have made me quit playing "handicapped" tours.

["Richard"]

Im' sure there have been rounds where I didn't announce it but because I do it for ALL morning rounds I didn't feel the need to announce it. The only times I'm sure to announce it is if There is a wager and I tell them that for me the /hole wager only starts on the back 9. I guess now it comes down to.. if I knew before the round started that the front 9 was only warm up... does that count? It would be like someone playing ALONE and playing a provisional ball. If he doens't state its a provisional even though he is alone is he now shooting 3? He knew he was hitting a provisional. Same thing, most of the time everyone I play with in the am know that I don't play the front 9 for hcp'ing purposes, total score bets, /hole bets and so on so there is really no point to announce it even though I do someotimes but not all the time. Now you must be even more confused.

Anyway, update for everyone.

Since this thread was started I didn't do anything to adjust my handicap. I was going to pull out the 9's but didn't see anything wrong with what I had done so I left them. I dont play early morning rounds anymore unless I warm up for a good hour (streching, running, hitting balls). The two rounds I played in the AM after the warm up were 45-45 (tips) and 44-43 (whites) both rounds were adjusted down to 85

Played 4 rounds in the afternoon where I didn't need to warm up and I shot (can't remember so I'll just give you the adjusted scores) 93, 84, 85, 87, 86 so ask you can see the handicapped full rounds are still 17 strokes over the course rating so really... nothing has changed. The cap has gone from 17.6 to 17.4

[Gary Hill]

So, if prior to the first 9, you announce that this 9 is a practice round, then so be it. You can do whatever you want. If you solely announce that it is a practice round, therefore all 18 holes are practice and the score isn't allowable to be posted.

As you are a certified handicap official, would you post the section from the handicap manual where it states that you may "announce that this is a practice round" and disregard your scores for handicap purposes.

[nice_lag]

Gary,

Here is my assumption for a practice round: It will not be played in accordance with the rules of golf, ie. playing two balls on certain holes, not taking appropriate penalties, etc. It states clearly that for a round to be valid "the majority of the holes must be played in accordance with the Rules of Golf".

Section 5, para f.
"Unacceptable Scores
Scores made under the following conditions are not acceptable for handicap purposes and shall not be entered in the player's scoring record:

(i) When fewer than seven holes are played;
(ii) When made on a golf course in an area in which an inactive season established by the authorized golf association is in effect;
(iii) When a majority of the holes are not played in accordance with the principles of the Rules of Golf;
(iv) When the length of the course is less than 3,000 yards for 18 holes;
(v) When, as a condition of the competition, the maximum number of clubs allowed is less than 14, or types of clubs are limited as, for example, in a competition that allows only iron clubs;
(vi) When scores are made on a course with no RCGA Course or Slope Rating, or equivalent.
(vii) When a player carries or uses non-conforming clubs or uses non-conforming balls;
(viii) When artificial devices (as defined under Rule 14-3) are used during the execution of a stroke."

I don't want to get into a long debates as to how people play their practice rounds. If I announce to my playing partners that I am playing a practice round, they can expect me to adjust my lie, take two stabs at a chip to see the reaction of the green etc. I am not playing within the Rules of Golf, therefore my score isn't valid for handicapping purposes. But I do not do that everyday. I will do it a couple weeks before a tournament though.

I made very clear though that golf is about honesty and the handicapping manual is also clear on that in the sense that:

Section 8-4, para b. sub-para iv
"If a player manipulates their scores to influence their RCGA Handicap Factor, the Handicap Committee shall adjust or withdraw their RCGA Handicap Factor, depending on the severity of the offense. (See Section 8-4e.) Examples of manipulating scores include:

(a) Posting erroneous scores;
(b) Stopping play after 6 holes to avoid posting scores;
(c) Repeatedly playing more than one ball to avoid posting scores;
(d) Not adjusting hole scores under Section 4;
(e) Deliberately reporting more or fewer strokes than actually scored;
(f) Deliberately taking extra strokes to inflate a score."

So to come back to our "example", the player is indeed repeatedly avoiding to post scores by playing practice rounds, therefore his handicap can be, and should be, adjusted. Furthermore, if the player plays 7 holes in accordance with the Rules of Golf, he has to post a score for 9 holes.

So does this make sense to you Gary?

["Richard"]

As you are a certified handicap official, would you post the section from the handicap manual where it states that you may "announce that this is a practice round" and disregard your scores for handicap purposes.

I couldn't find anything to say I could. I just went by some of the posts on here saying you could if you declared your friend 9 a practice prior to round. How is it any difference than going to a course.. playing 9 holes and saying this is a practice round and then going to another course and entering 9 holes that you played there?

If I did it wrong, let me know and tell me what I'm supposed to do now to fix this mess. I don't have my score cards and cant even guess as to what I had on the front nine of all the rounds I played in the AM

thanks gary

[pvs1313]

man, this is nuts,

just enter yoru scores. It takes the ones it counts, if you play in the morning, and afternoon it will average it out. at a 17+ handicap scoring 90 form the tips, well sounds high to me.

just enter what you score, be honest!

[Duff Gardens]

Ya see, there are 2 sides to this debate and I actually like ThoTho's side of the handicap bending. If you are gonna bend, bend on the side of becoming a lower handicap.
I work night shifts about half the time I work. Sometimes I go out in the morning after a night shift and I just want to hit the ball, stay sharp, practice putting and generally just have a club in my hand for a couple of hours.

Do I put those scores in? Well if I did, and I went often enough after night shifts, I could probably walk into almost any handicapped event and win it ( as long as I was not coming off a night shift). My nightshift scores would probably average 8-9 strokes above what my well-rested days off/ day shift scores would be. ( I am a 3 handicap - I can shoot an 85 after a night shift if I'm really tired)

Do I really want to put those scores in and be called a sandbagger at the next event? By law I'm supposed to put those scores in but does it do anyone any good?