From SI regarding Wie

[spidey]

a ton of hype, mostly invented by her family,

I have yet to see any quote that backs this up.

On the other hand, I have seen quotes by her high school coach that she has the potential to win a professional men's major. You do realize, I'm sure, that such a prediction can come true at any time, not just by the time she's sixteen.

[3Jack]

Fundonny hasn't found the time to provide the quotes he told me to google for him to support his contention that BJ Wie made outlandish statements about his daughter.

[Andru]

Jesus Andru, aren't you the glass is half full type guy. Trying to depress the older gentlemen??? Let's agree not to bring mortality in any other discussions, shall we?

LOL sure man. Never again. Promise.

[spackler]

Read this for example, what creamer & pressel have to put up with:

Why do you include Pressel in your argument? By your definition, Morgan Pressel has never won anything (ie., amateur titles don't count). She didn't even win medalist honours at LPGA q-school. Nothing but hype, a total failure as a professional so far.

Which is just as ridiculous as the argument against Wie.

[sharkhark]

I've heard Sergio and Mickelson whine the same way when they're asked about Tiger.

It doesn't prove that Wie shouldn't be a pro, nor that she shouldn't be playing against professional men and beating them.

Huh? Two multiple winners inc majors, talking about tiger?
What does this have to do with multiple winner creamer, and 11 AJGA title winner pressel ( including all five AJGA Invitationals : the "AJGA Slam" ) forced to talk about wie off in asia playing a non lpga, non pga, non futures event?

[Colby]

I have yet to see any quote that backs this up.

On the other hand, I have seen quotes by her high school coach that she has the potential to win a professional men's major. You do realize, I'm sure, that such a prediction can come true at any time, not just by the time she's sixteen.

I would be interested in seeing these quotes also...

[Colby]

Huh? Two multiple winners inc majors, talking about tiger?
What does this have to do with multiple winner creamer, and 11 AJGA title winner pressel ( including all five AJGA Invitationals : the "AJGA Slam" ) forced to talk about wie off in asia playing a non lpga, non pga, non futures event?

The same reason that Emery had to talk about Hasek last night after the win. Reporters are dumb...

[sharkhark]

Wie Is Setting the Wrong Goals




By Leonard Shapiro
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 6, 2005; 1:51 PM
WILLIAMSBURG, May 6 -- Someone needs to tell Michelle Wie's father to shut his yap.
The estimable Mr. Wie, a college professor in Hawaii, goes by the initials B.J., which surely must stand for Bad Judgment. How else to explain his foolish comment this week in Sports Illustrated that his now 15-year-old daughter is not all that interested in emulating the spectacular feats of Annika Sorenstam on the LPGA Tour?
"Michelle has made it clear that she wants to be a full time PGA Tour player," he told the magazine. "Her impression of Annika is that she has extraordinary concentration. But she is not interested in being another Annika Sorenstam on the LPGA Tour. She has been watching Tiger."
Well who hasn't?
We all have grand dreams for our children; my own mother wanted me to be a doctor until that ugly C-minus recorded in tenth grade biology, mostly caused by intense gagging while trying to dissect a frog.
But now it's also time for a reality check in the Wie household. Young Michelle, a nice, polite and prodigiously talented 6-foot teenager, is already a very fine golfer. She can hit the ball a ton and has shown every indication that she has the potential to be a dominant player in women's golf, emphasis on both the potential, and the women.
It's also nice that her proud papa thinks so highly of his daughter's considerable skills that he believes one day she'll also make a comfortable living and maybe even win now and then on the PGA Tour. Maybe it's the distance he lives from the mainland that has made Mr. Wie delusional, or maybe its just paternal pride in seeing his daughter regularly hit drives that travel 300 yards or longer.
But the kid is only 15 years old, and really, what has she really won except a bunch of tournaments in Hawaii and a U.S. women's Public Inks championship, arguably the weakest of all the national championships conducted by the USGA?
In her two forays on to the PGA Tour in the Hawaiian Open, she has missed the cut twice. She's played one event on the Nationwide Tour and another on the men's Canadian Tour and also missed the cut in both.
She's played in 20 LPGA events with far more success, including her best finish, second place at the SBS Open at Turtle Bay in Honolulu in February. She also has an impressive run of making the cut in 12 straight LPGA events. Last year, she finished fourth in the Kraft Nabisco, the first major of the 2004 season, and 13th in the U.S. Women's Open as a 14-year-old. Great stuff, for a school girl.
Her schedule this year is even more ambitious, as it should be for a teenager with such skills. Under some pressure exerted by the Golden Arch sponsor, the LPGA even shamefully changed the rules to allow her to compete in the McDonalds LPGA Championship to be played at Bulley Rock in Maryland June 9.
She's also entered in the British Women's Open at Royal Birkdale in July, along with sponsor's exemptions into the Evian Masters in France and the Samsung Champiponship in Palm Desert in October.
On the men's tour, she's been given a sponsor's exemption into the John Deere Classic in Illinois in early July. And with last week's announcement that the men's British Open will allow women to play if they can qualify, many stories were written implying Wie would have a chance to do that if she either wins the event, or finishes high enough to slip in because everyone ahead of her would already be exempt into the St. Andrews field.
Oh please.

Wie almost certainly won't even make the cut. If she does, no way does she get into the top 30. She's good, but just not that good yet. And if she did make the cut, the crush of media and public attention on the weekend would make it almost unbearably difficult for her to stand up to the same sort of pressure Sorenstam faced two years ago at Colonial just trying (and failing) to make the cut.
In short, it's time for B.J. Wie and his very likeable daughter to start getting real. It's also time for her to start beating women in tournaments, which she hasn't done on a national level since the Public Links victory two years ago. She has to learn how to win events against her natural competition before she even thinks about competing against the big boppers on the PGA Tour.
And by the way, the LPGA should provide her with all the fierce competition she could ever want.
Sorenstam, in case you haven't noticed, is Babe Ruth, and getting better than ever. And other multiple major championship winners like Julie Inkster and Se Ri Pak are still very much a presence on a tour filled with promising 20-somethings like Christie Kerr, Laura Ochoa and Christina Kim, among many others.
As for people her own age, she better start whipping up on teenage sensations Paula Creamer (18), Brittany Lincicome (19), Aree Song (19) and Morgan Pressel (16) before she even thinks about trying to compete against Tiger, Vijay, Ernie and Phil, among hundreds of other men.
It's nice to have dreams and goals, and no one should ever tell any athlete not to have the greatest of expectations. But dominating women's golf should be at the very top of Michelle and B.J. Wie's wish list. An occasional foray into the men's game, perhaps even being competitive once in awhile, is certainly an attainable goal.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to be like Tiger. But if she can be like Annika, or just a tad better, she'll be the greatest woman golfer ever to play the game. For father and daughter, that ought to sound like a plan.
Leonard Shapiro can be reached at Badgerlen@hotmail.com.

[spidey]

I would be interested in seeing these quotes also...

Faulty memory. It was her golf coach.

http://www.travelgolf.com/blogs/jenn..._s_major_wanna

[Colby]

Wie Is Setting the Wrong Goals




By Leonard Shapiro
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 6, 2005; 1:51 PM
WILLIAMSBURG, May 6 -- Someone needs to tell Michelle Wie's father to shut his yap.
The estimable Mr. Wie, a college professor in Hawaii, goes by the initials B.J., which surely must stand for Bad Judgment. How else to explain his foolish comment this week in Sports Illustrated that his now 15-year-old daughter is not all that interested in emulating the spectacular feats of Annika Sorenstam on the LPGA Tour?
"Michelle has made it clear that she wants to be a full time PGA Tour player," he told the magazine. "Her impression of Annika is that she has extraordinary concentration. But she is not interested in being another Annika Sorenstam on the LPGA Tour. She has been watching Tiger."
...SNIP...

That whole article is just another egotistical male who is trying to implant his beliefs into the mindset of people. Wie's father's quote, which I left above, merely states that Michelle has made it clear she wants to be a full time player on the PGA Tour, that she is not interested in being another Annika.

How is that setting unrealistic expectations? Because you believe they are unreal expectations? Because some reporter says that they are unrealistic. Give your head a shake. Also, this is a 15 year old girl telling her father these things. The only bad judgement that he showed by this quote was to repeat what Michelle probably told him in private. My daughter is almost 21. And I can still remember the flux and emotions of that age. They say one thing one week and then move onto something else. In this regard, however, it looks liek Wie is serious about trying to make a run at it.

And she should believe it. If she really didn't believe it, then she really doesn't have a chance. She would be standing on the first tee thinking "Why am I here, I don't have a chance. I'm here as a freak show". How would she ever be able to compete like that. But she is competing, and will continue to improve as the years go by. And men with low confidence and/or narrow thinking will cringe that another barrier has been broken. Kind of like when the first black was allowed to play at Augusta rather than caddy.

[spidey]

Huh? Two multiple winners inc majors, talking about tiger?
What does this have to do with multiple winner creamer, and 11 AJGA title winner pressel ( including all five AJGA Invitationals : the "AJGA Slam" ) forced to talk about wie off in asia playing a non lpga, non pga, non futures event?

You're implying that PGA Tour members have never had to comment on Tiger when he wasn't in the field? I guess you don't remember that they were having to field questions about Tiger when he wasn't even playing on the PGA Tour yet, when all he had was amateur titles. Certainly before Mickelson had any majors, definitely before Sergio had any wins. Don't you remember the ruckus?

...if Michelle doesn't have any potential to make an impact in either or both of the women's or men's games, then why are all these misogynist writers wasting so much ink on her?

[fundonny]

It was directed at Wie-mania spidey. And Morgan Pressel, to me, has a much better resume and I believe she may even be a bit younger (not sure though).

So, then why is your vitriol directed at Wie?

Turning pro doesn't mean anything more than that she now plays golf for money. It doesn't mean that she has promised to win everything she enters from the second she takes a check. Neither does it mean she is a fully developed, complete golfer. But she's good enough to finish with a handful of top 5's in LPGA majors, and to shoot 68 at a regulation PGA Tour venue. (Perhaps one should take a look at the 140+ male pros that haven't succeeded in doing that this year?)

What makes her a phenom is the fact that no 16 year old girl has ever accomplished what she has accomplished. No 16 year old girl has ever played as well in LPGA majors. No 16 year old girl has ever competed, nor made a cut on a professional men's event. So, what does that make her? A story. An interesting story that's newsworthy. Is she the next Tiger Woods, or multi-record breaker? Well, if there's going to be one, she's got enough game to have a shot. So the media have set up the story, they've called our attention. In doing so, they have probably put a lot of unnecessary pressure on her, but she's not shying away and she's not quitting. She has heart, even if she doesn't have nerves of steel yet. And even if she only has moderate success in men's events, that is a huge step for a female competitor. There are thousands of men who never even gained moderate success on the PGA Tour. If she succeeds in fulfilling her hyped potential, then it'll be unique. And we have a chance to be there for it.

...and there will always be armchair critics as well as armchair fans. But as for there being something 'wrong' about it? Highly unlikely, until you realize that the yardstick against which that is measured is 'the Rules'. No small surprise that 'the Rules' are always in need of revisement.

[fundonny]

I tried to find a site that had some US high school stats. Anyone know of one?

[spidey]

It was directed at Wie-mania spidey. And Morgan Pressel, to me, has a much better resume and I believe she may even be a bit younger.

I'm not sure that it's all that sane to attempt to deflate a juggernaut or 'mania' with logic...

Morgan Pressel will turn 18 in a few days and is fully exempt on the LPGA tour. She also has a personality that will win her a lot more enemies than friends which, of course, may never have any bearing on her success as a golfer.

[sharkhark]

That whole article.......merely states that Michelle has made it clear she wants to be a full time player on the PGA Tour...... this is a 15 year old girl telling her father these things...... And I can still remember the flux and emotions of that age. They say one thing one week ........

Kind of like when the first black was allowed to play at Augusta rather than caddy.

Merely? Is comparing a girl with below avg length for the pga really the same as breaking the color barrier? Is making a cut, not a win, her goal. Do you really believe she could ever win a pga event?
I know in theory I could win a pga event, but not likely.
ps c'mon just one wie supporter who doesn't justify her shortcomings or crazy statements with age. Just one reply, yes I know she is 16.
Wie is sixteen yrs of age. She is only 16. Man when do we stop mentioning her age?

[sharkhark]

You're implying that PGA Tour members have never had to comment on Tiger when he wasn't in the field? I guess you don't remember that they were having to field questions about Tiger when he wasn't even playing on the PGA Tour yet, when all he had was amateur titles. ?

no, i definitely think its nuts on how they have to comment on tiger agreed. but he has proven himself and so have they. pressel and creamer are forced to comment on a non winner out trying experiments.
...and no, I do not recall many comments made re tiger before pga. I remember a few times, but very infrequently. frequent once on pga, but really only remember a few occasions prior to that.

[spackler]

ps c'mon just one wie supporter who doesn't justify her shortcomings or crazy statements with age. Just one reply, yes I know she is 16.
Wie is sixteen yrs of age. She is only 16. Man when do we stop mentioning her age?

What shortcomings? Seriously, what shortcomings? She's played two LPGA events this year, one a major, and has finished 3rd both times. She has won more money in two events than celebrated rookies Song, Pressel and Lang have won in 5+.

[spidey]

Merely? Is comparing a girl with below avg length for the pga

Michelle Wie's driving avg on the PGA is 286, which would put her about 110th, which is above the median and average of the 235ish who have made cuts this year.

....and imagine. She's only 16.

[spidey]

I tried to find a site that had some US high school stats. Anyone know of one?

Good luck. It looks like it's mostly regional. There may only be a single National tournament and it doesn't have any online info. May have to do with publishing details about minors.

[fundonny]

I'm just trying to see what the high school kids are doing these days. Found a highschool freshman that shot a 64 so far.

[spidey]

I'm just trying to see what the high school kids are doing these days. Found a highschool freshman that shot a 64 so far.

If you want to check that kind of stuff, Flagstick magazine has results from the OVGA Junior events. I don't know if there are many 64s in the area, but there are certainly plenty of scores in the 60's every year.

Girls, on the other hand, it's pretty rare to see scores in the 70's for high school girls, never mind in the 60's. Ashley Bickerton from the Canadian was the last prospect out of Ottawa I think and she was shooting 70's. My daughter is in some Junior events and most of the accomplished girls are playing golf as an off-season sport. Their main sport is often hockey or basketball.

[sharkhark]

What shortcomings? Seriously, what shortcomings? She's played two LPGA events this year, one a major, and has finished 3rd both times. She has won more money in two events than celebrated rookies Song, Pressel and Lang have won in 5+.

Doesn't win. Doesn't want to win. Wants to make cuts and finish career in #1 position despite no career wins ever.
Take a look at ther putting stats. What position is she? PGA is putt for dough.

Michelle Wie's driving avg on the PGA is 286, which would put her about 110th, which is above the median and average of the 235ish who have made cuts this year.
....and imagine. She's only 16.

actually I dug up more impressive stats on her total driving in last 12 mths quote:
Everyone talks about how long Michelle Wie is, but in her few tournaments she played in this year and last, she is only averaging 273 yards.
It will be something to tell the grandkids "Hey I never won anthing but we're rich and i finished my career in top spot rank"
Wie signs reported $3 million deal
Hawai'i pro golfer Michelle Wie signed an advertising contract with a South Korean real estate developer yesterday, as she wrapped up a trip here after succeeding in making the cut in a men's tournament. See story.

[3Jack]

Doesn't win. Doesn't want to win. Wants to make cuts and finish career in #1 position despite no career wins ever.
Take a look at ther putting stats. What position is she? PGA is putt for dough.

actually I dug up more impressive stats on her total driving in last 12 mths quote:
Everyone talks about how long Michelle Wie is, but in her few tournaments she played in this year and last, she is only averaging 273 yards.
It will be something to tell the grandkids "Hey I never won anthing but we're rich and i finished my career in top spot rank"
Wie signs reported $3 million deal
Hawai'i pro golfer Michelle Wie signed an advertising contract with a South Korean real estate developer yesterday, as she wrapped up a trip here after succeeding in making the cut in a men's tournament. See story.

Doesn't want to win? Did she say that? Are you certain she has said that? Can you show us a quote of her saying that?

You do know that driving distance is only measured on two holes during any one round, right?

You do know that these holes are chosen so that one hole is with the prevailing wind and the other is against the prevailing wind, right?

And you do realize that just because it's a designated by the tour (be it the LPGA or PGA Tour) driving distance measurements are somewhat skewed by the choices a player must make on that hole based on their game - for example, players who hit it further may choose not to hit driver on a hole if they feel they don't need to based on circumstance. For example, she may hit four-wood because she doesn't want to drive it through the fairway into trouble. So, say she hits driver on one of the designated distance holes and four-wood on the other, her distances will be skewed.

Did Tiger come close to making any cuts at the LA Open when he teed it up there as a 16 year old? Not even close.

Pins are tucked tighter to the rough and to bunkers on the PGA Tour as compared to the LPGA tour. Greens are significantly quicker. Rough is significantly thicker. The setups can't really be compared. So, going from an LPGA event, even a major, to something like the John Deere Classic is night and day. You know how it is when you play Glenn Mar one day and then (if we're lucky) Royal Ottawa the next. You can't make the adjustment fast enough.

What did you want to do when you were 16? I know my asperations were more along the lines of finding out how I could buy beer and chasing 16 year old girls.

We've got to get some perspective, collectively. Yes she's a pro. Yes she's chosen to do what she's doing. Yes she gets more media attention because she's a girl trying to do things girls haven't tried to do before. Yes she's stated she'd love to play in the Master's some day. Who freakin' wouldn't? I'm sure there are thousands of great 16 year old boy players who would love to do the same thing. The only difference is that they don't have the media asking them - know why? Because they are boys and she's a girl. And foisting blame upon her for that is petty.

[jonf]

I have yet to see any quote that backs this up.

On the other hand, I have seen quotes by her high school coach that she has the potential to win a professional men's major. You do realize, I'm sure, that such a prediction can come true at any time, not just by the time she's sixteen.

This coach is clearly one of the most renowned names it golf. I know all the best and most knowledgeable pros concentrate their time on high school kids.

[sharkhark]

Doesn't want to win? Did she say that? Are you certain she has said that? Can you show us a quote of her saying that?
.

Her actions tell us that. She isn't allowed to say anything other than BJ Speak. She wants to win, but thats like me saying I want to win a tourney then spending time bungee jumping or drinking. Anything but proper prep. She ain't gonna win a mens event, just physically not gonna happen. If annika ain't done it, nobody is, never will be a better womens golfer unless she is a robot built by nasa.
Michelle even accepts mediocrity. Tiger when young spoke about anger at losing when he was younger. Kept his fire going. Listen to Michelle.
MICHELLE WIE: Well, it's kind of such a bummer that I have to qualify for next year for this event. It just happens. I feel it's just about like improving, and you know, getting better, even a top ten would be good. I don't like to focus on winning.

[fundonny]

Will Michelle Wie win a mens pro tournament?

Yes: 20%
No: 80%

Notice the question was a pro tournament, which could mean any mens tour.

Some of these 100 were women too, let's not overlook that point.

Source: This week's Golf Plus section in sports illustrated.

[Kilroy]

Since there is no such thing as a "mens pro tournament?" this is pointless.

[Colby]

Will Michelle Wie win a mens pro tournament?

Yes: 20%
No: 80%

Notice the question was a pro tournament, which could mean any mens tour.

Some of these 100 were women too, let's not overlook that point.

Source: This week's Golf Plus section in sports illustrated.

Ahhh, another SI Wie article. They've already shown their impartiality. Give us some real numbers. And as Dan mentioned there is no "Men's" Tour. The PGA is for the best golfers in the world, regardless of sex.

And why is winning the only goal? There are guys on the PGA Tour who will play on it for years, never come close to winning and make a very, very comfortable living.

[fundonny]

This wasn't written by an SI reporter, it was a poll. You know, unbias! And I have to correct myself, the question was asked to the Golf Magazine Top 100 Teachers.

Unlike those men that make a comfortable living Colby, Michelle doesn't need any more money, she's already richer then all of them. She doesn't play for money.

[fundonny]

I think we all know what they mean by that, it's not rocket science Dan.

All card carrying members of the PGA Tour are men. Same as the EPGA, the Asian Tour, the Nationwide Tour. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it is a duck. They are in essence men's tours.

Since there is no such thing as a "mens pro tournament?" this is pointless.