From SI regarding Wie

[fundonny]

I think all I said this thread though, was that she is under the microscope and isn't exempt from criticism. Non?

[Colby]

Actually your initial post in this article appeared, especially with wondering where or what Podunk was, as nothing but an attempt to belittle Wie's achievement at making a cut in a PGA golf event.

Added to your previous posts clearly showing your distaste with Wie playing in PGA events, it certainly proves to me what your sentiments are. I'm done with this.

[Indio]

I don't think most of us have a problem with the woman playing in a PGA event. I know I don'T, I found myself really pulling for that 'older' woman amateur that played in a PGA event a couple of years agon! (can't remember her name or the tournament she played in and I am too lazy to google it!)

I believe the problem is caused by all the hype that surrounds such and event. It gets blown way out of proportion byt the masses at alrge and then we get the pundits and bloggers who are polarized one way or the other, which gets everyone's juices flowing.

In my opinion if a sponsor wants MW (or anyone else for that matter) in their even, then good on them. Do I want her to do well, absolutely! Do I care that people say she takes another players 'spot' nope, don't give a rats cause there are about 10 to 12 players at every tournament that miss the cut soooooo badly that they shouldn't have been there in the first place. Now, it would be different if it were not a sponsor's exeption but the PGA of America saying 'Michele, we want you at this tournament'.... then I would go balestic!

The bottom line is everyone of us would give our left to be able to play as good as Michele Wie does! Anyone that says otherwise is only fooling themselves! She is a very talented young lady that if her manager and father don't screw up her mind, will be a force to reckon with on the LPGA and even somewhat on the PGA tour.

BUT the debate will continue on this one until the day she either does/does not become a superstar.

[fundonny]

Suzy Whaley (or something like that). She was fun, saw a story on her recently.

[sharkhark]

The only wie thing I keep harping on is her lack of winning.
I am not sure on what results her supporters are utilizing to substantiate claims of her "phenomenal" abilities?
At this stage she has won a junior (many moons ago) amateur event. Thats it.
No other amateur wins, no lpga wins, no pga wins, no eurasia wins etc.
Is driving the ball on a range 300 yards enough to justify, or is the hype got people saying "rare unbelievable talent".
Is it not possible that golf is 99% mental and she may go an entire career with little or no wins?
Have other young athletes i.e. tennis phenoms gone on to never reach their potential be it mental burn out, physical body growth as they age etc.
Based on hype, she is the next annika or better.
But is it not also possible that in 5 years we all go "oh yeah, I remember that name?"

[fundonny]

My name is Donny, and I have a problem with the Wie-mania. I would love to see Michelle win a woman's event. I don't want to see a woman regularly competing in PGA events just to make a cut here and there (does anyone really follow a guy like Tommy Armour III?). If an event wants to give an exemption to a woman to make more money, then invite the best women. I have no problem saying that a woman golfer is better then some men golfers. I couldn't care less if a woman wipes the floor with me at golf, most that play casually probably could. I hate when a person, man or woman, thinks or acts like they're bigger then the sport itself, until they prove they are. I like rooting for the underdog. Wie-mania has removed the 'underdog' label from Michelle.

My name is Donny, and I'm allowed to dislike Wie-mania. Your name is <insert name here> and you're allowed to like Wie-mania.

[Indio]

Is it just me that is missing something here or are the majority of responses to this and many other Wie thread all in agreement. It looks to me like we have all said nad basically agreed that:

1. MW is a good golfer
2. MW has the potential to be a great golfer
3. MW can have her sponsors exemptions
4. MW needs to prove herself on the LPGA tour to be recognized as what she is already being touted as by some (ie. the female version of Tiger)
5. The media is feeding off of her....
6. If MW makes a cut on the PGA tour 99% of us will be happy for her...
7 GIVE HER TIME TO MATURE!

Dunno but sounds to me like this is what is being said but I have been accuse by my darling wife of not listening very intently at times

[fundonny]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. I wish they'd give them to someone who's won something (which Michelle will soon enough, but hasn't yet)
4. YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!
5. Totally, but the Wie's started the PR parade themselves which translated to $$$, then the media went bananas!
6. I'll smile, but I'll avoid all sports pages and golf magazines for a month afterwards! It's not the same as Moses parting the Red Sea, contrary to what people will be saying.
7. Disagree. She became pro to get her millions (even if it was Dad's idea). 16, 25, 33 or 48, they're all pros. If you swim with sharks, you're gonna get eaten. She's been fair game ever since that day she signed on the dotted lines.

Indio, you trying to give Letterman competition with your lists lately?

[Shivas Irons]

My name is Donny, and I have a problem with the Wie-mania.

Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.

[Indio]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. I wish they'd give them to someone who's won something (which Michelle will soon enough, but hasn't yet)
4. YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!
5. Totally, but the Wie's started the PR parade themselves which translated to $$$, then the media went bananas!
6. I'll smile, but I'll avoid all sports pages and golf magazines for a month afterwards! It's not the same as Moses parting the Red Sea, contrary to what people will be saying.
7. Disagree. She became pro to get her millions (even if it was Dad's idea). 16, 25, 33 or 48, they're all pros. If you swim with sharks, you're gonna get eaten. She's been fair game ever since that day she signed on the dotted lines.

Indio, you trying to give Letterman competition with your lists lately?

Although it doesn't look like it, we agree on all 7 items, I am just not as 'verbose' as an official wing ding sports reporter that likes to 'play' with all the 'quirky' nuances of a fact.

As for Letterman, his are written for him.... I have to come up with these 'gems' myself and since he is making millions and I am still slaving away day in and day out to make a living, he is obviously the smarter of the two!

[Kilroy]

He has paid, smart writers. SMRT!

[fundonny]

Ya, but Indio has Mrs. Indio!

[Indio]

Ya, but Indio has Mrs. Indio!

I am going to burn in hell for saying this but..... so, whats your point? She can't be all that bright if she married me

God I hope the new couch is as comfortable as the old one used to be

[spackler]

The only wie thing I keep harping on is her lack of winning.
I am not sure on what results her supporters are utilizing to substantiate claims of her "phenomenal" abilities?
At this stage she has won a junior (many moons ago) amateur event. Thats it.
No other amateur wins, no lpga wins, no pga wins, no eurasia wins etc.

Not to divert from the main gist of thread, but I've seen the no win thing before and I wanted to correct it. She won the 03 US Womens Amateur Public Links, an actual USGA national championship. She was thirteen at the time and beat the reigning NCAA champion in the final. She also has many top 3 and top 10 results in professional women's majors, nevermind LPGA events. I think she has a fairly decent resume for a 16 year old.

[Andru]

I don't think most of us have a problem with the woman playing in a PGA event. I know I don'T, I found myself really pulling for that 'older' woman amateur that played in a PGA event a couple of years agon! (can't remember her name or the tournament she played in and I am too lazy to google it!)

I'm a huge fan of women trying their game against the best. But Suzie Whaley was a joke. She was allowed to qualify with a handicap. She's not an amateur, she's a club pro. She played in a regional final from shorter tee decks and won. That's how she got in. You could say she's done more than MW to get in.

Just an FYI. They have since changed the rule If you want the exemption you have to play the back tees, not the forward tees.

I was really happy when Annika played the colonial. It took all the thunder out of Whaley's 'qualification'.

[Golfpeasant]

I can understand not liking Wie-mania cause I hate Tiger-mania, then I realized that most of the mania is created by people OTHER than Tiger.

That said, Wie has great game, great attitude, and great potential. I'm totally more likely to jump on a mania-bandwagon for a 16 year old than for a 34 year old, simply because anyone under the age of 20 deserves as much support as possible until their ego is intact.

Shame on the haters !

[fundonny]

Who hates whom?

[sharkhark]

[quote=spackler] I think she has a fairly decent resume for a 16 year old.[/quote]

You are correct. Since winning a junior title she has won nothing in the last 3+ years including pre and post pro status.

PS Does any Wiesupporter ever not mention her age? Sounds like a disclaimer for any shortcomings.

[fundonny]

Shark, precisely a point I was trying to make too. She came out as a pro at 16. If her ego wasn't ready to handle the bad that comes with the good, as golfpeasant mentioned, then shame on her parents.

[spackler]

You are correct. Since winning a junior title she has won nothing in the last 3+ years including pre and post pro status.

PS Does any Wiesupporter ever not mention her age? Sounds like a disclaimer for any shortcomings.

Not a junior event, a USGA women's national title.

[Nat Williams]

It's true, she hasn't won much ... but as of May 1st she was still ranked #2 in women's golf ... not a bad resume indeed

[jonf]

I think she has a fairly decent resume for a 16 year old.

Yes, she does. She is the best 16 year old female golfer in the world, by a loooong shot. She is extraordinary for her age. That doesn't mean she is as good as other LPGA players, or that she is good enough to play on the PGA. If she wants to play on the LPGA and PGA tours, she cannot fall back on the crutch of "but she's only 16." As Donny has already said, once you enter the pro ranks, you are measured against your fellow pros. Her age is irrelevant. Her achievements against other 16 year old girls don't matter. If she is going to play on the big tours, she has to be ready to take all the criticism that will come her way until she can prove herself. She may be the best 16 year girl out there, but last I checked, this thread is not entitled "Michelle Wie: really good for a 16 year old." If someone starts that thread, I'll be the first one to post my agreement. Until then, Michelle Wie, compared to other golfers, is overrated and an underachiever.

[Andru]

[QUOTE=sharkhark]

I think she has a fairly decent resume for a 16 year old.[/quote]

You are correct. Since winning a junior title she has won nothing in the last 3+ years including pre and post pro status.

PS Does any Wiesupporter ever not mention her age? Sounds like a disclaimer for any shortcomings.

Actually she won the US Womens Publinx Title. Youngest to ever win a major US Amateur title male or female.

[sharkhark]

It's true, she hasn't won much ... but as of May 1st she was still ranked #2 in women's golf ... not a bad resume indeed

[quote=Andru]

Actually she won the US Womens Publinx Title. Youngest to ever win a major US Amateur title male or female.

Yes I concur once again. Wie did beat Virada Nirapathpongporn which is impressive as Virada had the yr previous been the 2002 NCAA individual champion medalist, came second to wie next, followed by 2004 win as us womens amateur champ, received the nancy lopez award, then two professional wins on the futures tour, and now trying for a lpga win against other women......

...while wie has no pro wins. oh that's right. she's sixteen.
she is 16. Yes she has been second, and even last. Just not first. She is 16. oh yeah, but she is sixteen.
Virada talking about first win as pro:
I don't like to skip a step in anything," said the native of Bangkok, Thailand. "As frustrated as I might have seemed last year, I wasn't quite ready to be there yet. Everybody was like, 'You've won on every level, so why haven't you won?' But maybe I wasn't ready. I think I needed all of that time to get ready for the next level."
Then she won the cigna for 2nd win
Hmm? She said she needed to win on every level? While wie tries out for the nextel cup...oops..sorry thats next..anything but a legit chance against fellow lady professionals. Thats just makes too much sense.

[Andru]

[QUOTE=sharkhark]

Yes I concur once again. Wie did beat Virada Nirapathpongporn which is impressive as Virada had the yr previous been the 2002 NCAA individual champion medalist, came second to wie next, followed by 2004 win as us womens amateur champ, received the nancy lopez award, then two professional wins on the futures tour, and now trying for a lpga win against other women......

...while wie has no pro wins. oh that's right. she's sixteen.
she is 16. Yes she has been second, and even last. Just not first. She is 16. oh yeah, but she is sixteen.
Virada talking about first win as pro:
I don't like to skip a step in anything," said the native of Bangkok, Thailand. "As frustrated as I might have seemed last year, I wasn't quite ready to be there yet. Everybody was like, 'You've won on every level, so why haven't you won?' But maybe I wasn't ready. I think I needed all of that time to get ready for the next level."
Then she won the cigna for 2nd win
Hmm? She said she needed to win on every level? While wie tries out for the nextel cup...oops..sorry thats next..anything but a legit chance against fellow lady professionals. Thats just makes too much sense.

this is typical. Someone makes a categorical statement which was false.

You are correct. Since winning a junior title she has won nothing in the last 3+ years including pre and post pro status.

PS Does any Wiesupporter ever not mention her age? Sounds like a disclaimer for any shortcomings.

Then realizes the statemant was false. breaks out the. "OH well look at this golfer. They're doing it the 'right' way. So take that!". Everyone can see right through you.

There's lot's of ways to handle this. "I stand corrected she has one a mjor amateur title". That's it. Introducing a new argument just extends this stupid degrading debate. The truth is you don't know what the 'right' way is. We won't know how good MW will be until her career is completed. Here's a little dose of reality, in 40 years yes that's 40 years ( longer than I've been around ) 1/2 of us won't be around to see the end of it.

[fundonny]

Jesus Andru, aren't you the glass is half full type guy. Trying to depress the older gentlemen??? Let's agree not to bring mortality in any other discussions, shall we?

[sharkhark]

[quote=Andru]

Here's a little dose of reality, in 40 years yes that's 40 years ( longer than I've been around ) 1/2 of us won't be around to see the end of it.

Hey I only have the concentration of a 4 yr old (I love shiny things) so don't depress me, that will make me 44, I'll still be around!
Warning! editor's official disclaimer: Michelle wie is only 16.

[spidey]

Shark, precisely a point I was trying to make too. She came out as a pro at 16. If her ego wasn't ready to handle the bad that comes with the good, as golfpeasant mentioned, then shame on her parents.

So, then why is your vitriol directed at Wie?

Turning pro doesn't mean anything more than that she now plays golf for money. It doesn't mean that she has promised to win everything she enters from the second she takes a check. Neither does it mean she is a fully developed, complete golfer. But she's good enough to finish with a handful of top 5's in LPGA majors, and to shoot 68 at a regulation PGA Tour venue. (Perhaps one should take a look at the 140+ male pros that haven't succeeded in doing that this year?)

What makes her a phenom is the fact that no 16 year old girl has ever accomplished what she has accomplished. No 16 year old girl has ever played as well in LPGA majors. No 16 year old girl has ever competed, nor made a cut on a professional men's event. So, what does that make her? A story. An interesting story that's newsworthy. Is she the next Tiger Woods, or multi-record breaker? Well, if there's going to be one, she's got enough game to have a shot. So the media have set up the story, they've called our attention. In doing so, they have probably put a lot of unnecessary pressure on her, but she's not shying away and she's not quitting. She has heart, even if she doesn't have nerves of steel yet. And even if she only has moderate success in men's events, that is a huge step for a female competitor. There are thousands of men who never even gained moderate success on the PGA Tour. If she succeeds in fulfilling her hyped potential, then it'll be unique. And we have a chance to be there for it.

...and there will always be armchair critics as well as armchair fans. But as for there being something 'wrong' about it? Highly unlikely, until you realize that the yardstick against which that is measured is 'the Rules'. No small surprise that 'the Rules' are always in need of revisement.

[sharkhark]

So, then why is your vitriol directed at Wie?

I don't speak for Donny, but can reiterate what I see the wie naysayer's commonly state.
She got a ton of cash, a ton of hype, mostly invented by her family,with nothing proven i.e. no wins. While other young stars ala creamer etc have to answer questions about wie while their 'winning' she's on the other side of the planet playing men (to win, yeah right).
THis puts her on a pedestal. SOme support this. Some look at it as irritating. Prove yourself first, then we will respect you.
Read this for example, what creamer & pressel have to put up with:
http://www.worldgolf.com/blogs/golf-...tsteps_too_big

[spidey]

Read this for example, what creamer & pressel have to put up with:

I've heard Sergio and Mickelson whine the same way when they're asked about Tiger.

It doesn't prove that Wie shouldn't be a pro, nor that she shouldn't be playing against professional men and beating them.