Wie Wie makes Mens Cut

[Indio]

Boys boys boys... She made the cut, if that makes her happy then fine. She'll never win a mens event (unless it's an OG event or something at that level).

The SI reporter, well that was ridiculous. But he did what he thought was ethically right. And a rule was broken. The fact that the PGA has people answering these calls baffles me.

THATS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sharkhark]

I think the point here is that Wie has made a cut on in an event that is on a higher level than the event in which Se Ri Pak made a cut. No? Off I go to find a link on the heirarchies of the Asian / Austrailasian Tour(s)...

Actually I started this thread knowing their are two vocal sides. Mine was a lame attempt to state that she is criticized by many due to no proven ability to win. If she wants to make cuts on some low rung obscure tour that no-one here follows, congrats.
However, when I play friends I want to win. I like to shoot lower. I do not play just for fun, but also to win. Wie ain't going to win a mens pga event. At her rate she aint gonna win a lpga either. Some day? Probably?
But by trekking over to asia to find a 7152yd short course (for a mens event) to play against mostly people we do not, and will not, ever hear about, sets her up.
I enjoy taking satisfaction from her non-winning status as she doesn't prove herself against women first.

[Nat Williams]

Don't forget that she can't play a full LPGA schedule.

Picking up these extra spots fills her dance card.

[Indio]

Don't forget that she can't play a full LPGA schedule.

Picking up these extra spots fills her dance card.

Common Donny, go for it!

[3Jack]

7152yd short course (for a mens event)

Length does not necessarily determine difficulty. I'd still not consider 7152 short. By that logic, she'll be trying to get a sponser's exemption to this years Canadian Open at Hamilton Golf & Country Club - I think that track is about 6900 yards... likely set up a tad differently than the Sky 72 Golf Club in Seoul.

There are only a couple of chaps who I recognize as having PGA tour experience, and after two rounds, trail Wie.

23 K J CHOI (KOR) 68 72 140 -4
80 Ted OH (KOR) 74 71 145 +1

That being said, they're likely playing there as a favor to their homeland, and this is likely a tour on the level of the Canadian Tour - who, when I've gone to see the Canadian Tour players, they can swing it pretty good.

[spidey]

But by trekking over to asia to find a 7152yd short course (for a mens event) to play against mostly people we do not, and will not, ever hear about,

I'm sure your analysis impresses the Administrators of the Asian tour. They are, after all, one of the International PGA tours, and Thongchai Jaidee was given a Masters invite for his consistent showing on the Asian tour. Certainly, the Asian Tour is far more important to Asians than the American or European tours.

[fundonny]

True Spidey, but as far as the volume of talent, it's not a major player. There are some diamonds in the rough of course.

[3Jack]

Are we forgetting something here though? She's 16! 16!

[spidey]

True Spidey, but as far as the volume of talent, it's not a major player. There are some diamonds in the rough of course.

No, it's not a hotbed of budding Tigers, but that's no reason to slag them. They didn't create their tour to impress us or put the 'Murcans out of business. Still, they have some guys playing who are winners on the European PGA, and have substantial game. The diamonds are probably center cut, tho'.

[fundonny]

I think the best point that was made is that Michelle can travel the world and make some cuts and a few bucks, but is that what she really wants?

Is making the cut really 'competing'? I think competing is having a chance to win, not just place. There are many guys on the big tour that make a living by placing but you'll rarely hear anything about them and certainly never read anything about them in the history books. I think Michelle's place in history will be as an answer to a Trivial Pursuit question, that's IF she keeps trying to make cuts in men's tournaments. If she golfs the LPGA, she could go down as one of the best in history if not the best. Tiger is known as the best amateur of all time but Michelle ignored that route, which I find sad. The mighty dollar won that battle.

[3Jack]

I think the best point that was made is that Michelle can travel the world and make some cuts and a few bucks, but is that what she really wants?

Is making the cut really 'competing'? I think competing is having a chance to win, not just place. There are many guys on the big tour that make a living by placing but you'll rarely hear anything about them and certainly never read anything about them in the history books. I think Michelle's place in history will be as an answer to a Trivial Pursuit question, that's IF she keeps trying to make cuts in men's tournaments. If she golfs the LPGA, she could go down as one of the best in history if not the best. Tiger is known as the best amateur of all time but Michelle ignored that route, which I find sad. The mighty dollar won that battle.

Once again, she's 16!

The route to success that Michelle is taking is polar opposite to the route Tiger took and she continues to get ripped for it - Tiger competed against people his own age, and he went to Stanford etc, and only turned pro when he felt he was ready.

Wie is attempting to "get where she needs to be" by competing against the best fields possible - be it in men's or women's events. Competing against men in the long run will only build her skillz and her confidence, provided that she continues to have small successes like making this cut on the Asian Tour.

[spidey]

hear anything about them and certainly never read anything about them in the history books. I think Michelle's place in history will be as an answer to a Trivial Pursuit question

Perhaps, but Babe Didrickson Zaharias is a household name, and she never won a men's event. Many non-golfers have never heard of her. She made her name, not just by her athleticism vs. women, but by challenging the men.

I'm sure there will always be people who are willing to write your epitaph before you're cold. Facts aren't fact until history has written them in stone. Until then, we're just windbags. What's the success rate of forecasters, pundits and prophets? Awesome, until you count all the times they're wrong.

Did anybody else see the interview with Jack, where he admits that he probably should have won a lot more tournaments based on his sheer ability? Realization of potential is a tough one. Everybody has potential. Slagging them because we don't believe in their potential is pretty much indistinguishable from sour grapes. N'est-ce pas?

Anybody who can break par under pressure on a 7000+ yd course has the potential to win a men's event. Only history will tell us whether such a person actually does it.

[3Jack]

If she golfs the LPGA, she could go down as one of the best in history if not the best. Tiger is known as the best amateur of all time but Michelle ignored that route, which I find sad. The mighty dollar won that battle.

There's no reason why she can't or won't play both the LPGA and PGA tour someday... I'd liken it to who maintained their European Tour member status while doing the same on the PGA Tour.

Also, men's amateur golf is far more prestigous than women's amateur golf - Tiger was aware of how many US Am's Jack won, and how Jack counted them as majors. There is no such amateur carrot for the women.

[sharkhark]

I'm sure your analysis impresses the Administrators of the Asian tour. They are, after all, one of the International PGA tours, and Thongchai Jaidee was given a Masters invite for his consistent showing on the Asian tour. Certainly, the Asian Tour is far more important to Asians than the American or European tours.

I am only commenting on the best players on the best tours.
Male players the world over say the highest level of competition is the pga. Euro is very talented, but even europeans say highest level is pga.
Same said from worldwide women, that the lpga is highest.
Older guys, champions tour, again, highest.
Asia tour for men is not the highest.
So why play? To say you made a cut? To say you beat Prom MEESAWAT? who?
Jeev Milkha? ...LEE Seong-ho ?... Chapchai NIRAT? ...LEE Won-jun?... HONG Soon-sang ?... KANG Kyung-nam? ...CHOI Ho-sung ?... MO Joong-kyung? ...LU Wei-lan? ..CHOI Jin-ho? ...Harmeet KAHLON? ...HWANG In-choon ?
??who??

[spidey]

So why play?

I don't suppose it makes any difference what I say. Even if I present a sound analysis, it's unlikely you will make any effort to see it's merit. Basically, you've written her off regardless of what actually matters.

Mikey plays the Canadian Open. You expect him to. He's Canadian. See a similarity?

Michelle's heritage is Korean. She probably got an invite. She's drawing the largest crowds. The crowds all know who she is. The crowds also know all the other players. None of them care whether she beats Annika Sorenstam or Morgan Pressel or Bo Van Pelt, this week.

Tiger played regularly in an Asian tour event, can't remember the name of it. Where his mother was from. I don't remember hearing you slag him for winning that one against a bunch of 'nobodys'. He would have played it whether there were somebodys or not.

I suspect Wie is not playing in that event to prove anything to male golf aficionados. That's why I doubt you will ever get it. She's not trying to prove anything to you, or men in general. She's trying to see if she can do it. More than that, she's trying to see how much she can do. I don't think it's her responsibility to fashion her career the way 'we' think it should be done.

I personally think that Mickelson was smarter than Woods. Mickelson finished college. Woods makes more money. Who was right? Both, probably. There's not just one way to kick off a golf career. Wie is doing fine. How many years did it take Mickelson to win a major? Forget that... how many wins does Bo Van Pelt have?

[Eldred]

I don't suppose it makes any difference what I say. Even if I present a sound analysis, it's unlikely you will make any effort to see it's merit. Basically, you've written her off regardless of what actually matters.

Mikey plays the Canadian Open. You expect him to. He's Canadian. See a similarity?

Michelle's heritage is Korean. She probably got an invite. She's drawing the largest crowds. The crowds all know who she is. The crowds also know all the other players. None of them care whether she beats Annika Sorenstam or Morgan Pressel or Bo Van Pelt, this week.

Tiger played regularly in an Asian tour event, can't remember the name of it. Where his mother was from. I don't remember hearing you slag him for winning that one against a bunch of 'nobodys'. He would have played it whether there were somebodys or not.

I suspect Wie is not playing in that event to prove anything to male golf aficionados. That's why I doubt you will ever get it. She's not trying to prove anything to you, or men in general. She's trying to see if she can do it. More than that, she's trying to see how much she can do. I don't think it's her responsibility to fashion her career the way 'we' think it should be done.

I personally think that Mickelson was smarter than Woods. Mickelson finished college. Woods makes more money. Who was right? Both, probably. There's not just one way to kick off a golf career. Wie is doing fine. How many years did it take Mickelson to win a major? Forget that... how many wins does Bo Van Pelt have?

Great point....and it was the Johny Walker Classic in Bankok Thailand that Tiger played in. His mother's country. He even played in New Zealand because of Steve Williams...

[spackler]

So why play?

Probably the $700K appearance fee had something to do with it (she donated $300K of that to a Korean children's charity ). By making a cut against the men there, she will likely increase her invites from other tours as well, which is important considering the limitations imposed on her LPGA participation. Making a cut in a professional mens event probably also builds her 'brand' when it comes time to negotiate with potential sponsors.

More power to her, we all want to make the best living we can.

[sharkhark]

My simple point is I respect golfers of all ages sex etc trying to 'win a tournament'.
I don't want to see freak shows.
Does anyone here expect her to win? No. So why?
I am allowed to look in disgust at someone raking in millions, that has not proven anything. Its my perogative. Just like you can defend someone who has not won anything getting such notoriety.
If she would win something, anything, then I will respect her.
Do you think if she played her career and never won, anyone will care that she made a korean cut, that she finished lpga tourneys in second, as a first place loser?
No.

[3Jack]

Again, this time with feeling... she's six-freakin-teen!

She will win. Many times. Maybe not this week, this month, or this year. But she's got a looooonnnnng career in front of her...

[B Nation]

My simple point is I respect golfers of all ages sex etc trying to 'win a tournament'.
I don't want to see freak shows.
Does anyone here expect her to win? No. So why?
I am allowed to look in disgust at someone raking in millions, that has not proven anything. Its my perogative. Just like you can defend someone who has not won anything getting such notoriety.
If she would win something, anything, then I will respect her.
Do you think if she played her career and never won, anyone will care that she made a korean cut, that she finished lpga tourneys in second, as a first place loser?
No.

This doesn't even make a little bit of sense. The tournament isnt over yet.
How do you know she isn't trying to win, or she can't win.

Folks, we are talking about a 16 year old with immense talent, you guys consistently fail to recognize this. Lets see why we are dissing her now...

She plays in an asian tour event in Korea ( she is 1/2 korean), she is already a legend in Korea and someone that the whole country wants to see play. She is the youngest player in the field to make the cut, as a 16 year old girl, playing with a bunch of men who play professionally for a living (yes the Asian tour is a pro tour and among the top 5 worldwide... even if you can't pronounce the players' names).

Where did Michelle say she wasn't going to try to win? How is she not competitive in this event? Because she is not in the lead?

Give me a break. I have a feeling you guys are gonna hate the next 20 years of Michelle's golfing career... this is just the beginning.

[fundonny]

She could win on the Asian tour, that wouldn't surprise, maybe once in her lifetime. But anyone who thinks she can actually win a PGA Tour event is high on something. It's fine to be PC and support equality (yadda yadda yadda), but c'mon now let's get some perspective.
She's a physical specimen in Asia, not so much in North America. Here the guys are bigger and stronger, just physiologically speaking. There she is probably one of the tallest and strongest playing in that tournament.

[Colby]

Donny,

How many guys competing on the PGA Tour ever win? Some of them come close, but as long as they make enough money to stay in the top 125, they live very nicely as a journeyman. As Wei matures, this is a very good possibility.

Many years ago, non-caucasians weren't allowed to play in professional events, but times changed, and they will for this also. The PGA Tour is for the best players, it's not a male only tour. If Wei can be competative, then she has the right to be there. As a side note, Tiger never qualified to play on the PGA Tour. He was given a number of exemptions, won enough money in a year to be in the top 125, and he has been a member of the Tour since.

[fundonny]

Colby, that goes back to Shark's original point, is that how she wants to live? Those guys who are journeymen make more money on the PGA tour then they would on the Nationwide tour. Wie could win and make more money on the LPGA tour then she will on the PGA Tour. She could collect 15 to 30 grand each time she makes a cut, which when she's in her 20's could be about 10 times a year. So that's most likely a max of about $300,000 and zero wins. Or she could make almost a million on the LPGA Tour and be a winner. Women could qualify to play with the big boys (COULD), but a woman will never ever win an event. It's just not in the cards. It all depends on how she wants to live her life.

[3Jack]

She's a physical specimen in Asia, not so much in North America. Here the guys are bigger and stronger, just physiologically speaking. There she is probably one of the tallest and strongest playing in that tournament.

OMG, did you really just say that?

Have you ever seen the shoulders on KJ Choi? Who says there are no six foot tall Asians?

Do you realize how enthnically biased (I'll not use the other term for that, but you're close) what you've just said sounds?

[3Jack]

Or she could make almost a million on the LPGA Tour and be a winner. Women could qualify to play with the big boys (COULD), but a woman will never ever win an event. It's just not in the cards. It all depends on how she wants to live her life.

Again, who says she can't play both the LPGA and PGA Tour someday? Are you saying you don't want to see Wie succeed against men? If so, does that frighten you on some level? As men should we be threatened by the Wies of the world?

It's opinions like yours that motivate people like Wie. Never tell someone they can't do something.

[fundonny]

Physically speaking, are you denying the average size of North Americans and Asians is different? Good lord, is the world so bloody sensitive these days that you can't say anything? If you look at the averages, there's no denying it. It's not a negative or positive, it's just the way things evolved. Good gried jack, relax.

OMG, did you really just say that?

Have you ever seen the shoulders on KJ Choi? Who says there are no six foot tall Asians?

Do you realize how enthnically biased (I'll not use the other term for that, but you're close) what you've just said sounds?

[3Jack]

ROUND THREE CANCELLED AT SK TELECOM OPEN DUE TO BAD WEATHER

[fundonny]

She can try all she wants, and if she proves the world wrong then more power to her. My opinion, neither she nor any other woman CAN win a PGA Tour event.

Again, who says she can't play both the LPGA and PGA Tour someday? Are you saying you don't want to see Wie succeed against men? If so, does that frighten you on some level? As men should we be threatened by the Wies of the world?

It's opinions like yours that motivate people like Wie. Never tell someone they can't do something.

[fundonny]

Where's Indio, he'd be LOVING this discussion!

[fundonny]

And just to make this clear, there is a BIG difference between a racist comment and a comment on race.