Who is to blame for slow play?

[fundonny]

Interested to see the results... Feel free to be honest and not politically correct.

[oneputtwonder]

mainly people who were never taught how to play "ready golf".

[DMWARREN]

RIGHT ON. Don't you just hate watching someone putt and then watch the next guy walk all around the green and then putt while the other two stand there and talk instead of getting ready

[jonf]

slow players (and no, i'm not trying to be condescending). I find most slow players are slowest around the putting greens.

A couple of my biggest problems are when I see a player lining up a putt for 5 minutes, only to blow it way wide, 5 feet past the hole, or when a player decides to mark a 1 foot putt instead of just tapping it in

[davevandyk]

I would have to say that it is a combination of a few people. Firstly, i think some courses try to squeeze tee-off times too close together to get as many people out as they can that is one of the main causes. Secondly, i think it has a lot to do with people that think they are "Tiger Woods" and play from the "tips" which slows it down because they are hitting 3/4 shots into par 4's because they simply can't get home in 2 shots. I would agree about the "ready golf" but me and my playing partners don't really play ready golf and never seem to hold people up. But i think that is due to reason #2, we are all between 3 and scratch, and therefore only take two shots to get on the green or close by it so we don't really slow down play at all.

I also have a tough time watching people search for their ball for 5+ minutes while a group is waiting on the tee behind them and has been for the last couple holes. It seems that not only do they go and look for a long period of time, but all 4 guys go look, instead of just two of them. Like was said above, if they use "ready golf", the other members of the group should only help look for the ball after they have each hit, it will help immensely.

[gbower]

I think that course layout can slow down play. Put a short par 5 as your first or second hole and everyone thinks they can get there so always waiting early in the round. It may open up after that but then noone tries to catch up. Marshals at most courses do nothing but get people ticked off. Most have no authority to ask someone to pick up and even if they did now the groups behind have lost time. I've had them on my case at a couple of courses and I'm far from a slow player. I find a lot of people in carts will often slow play down as they go to one ball instead of dropping one off and then going to their ball. How many play a provisional ball off the tee if they think it may be OB. Oh ya they just drop when they don't find it or hit it from the OB. Another thing that slows play down is at the turn to #10 when people have to go in and get something. This is definitely a problem where I play. When beverage carts are on the course there is no need to stop at the turn.

[jmr73]

You can only really blame the slow players. If everyone knew how to play ready golf then there would be no need for marshalls to enforce pace of play and 7-8 minute intervals would be no problem.

Now it is up to the marshalls (and more importantly other golfers) to teach slow players how to pick up the pace.

[BullDog]

Now it is up to the marshalls (and more importantly other golfers) to teach slow players how to pick up the pace.

I tend to agree, but I find that most marshalls have been castrated and as a result have had their real powers taken away from them. How many courses do we see "player assistance personnel" carts these days? I know of at least two golf courses where marshalls were permanently relieved from their duties because they did what I believe was their job.

The problem is that some owners think that "enforcement" diminishes the players' pleasure and if they do that, they won't come back. I ask, then, why bother having them out there.

[mberube]

I think you can’t blame slow players. If you are taught to play golf at a slow pace, it’s not you fault, it’s the way you learned. Pace of play is a big problem in America and it’s the local staff’s job to make sure that the pace is decent on the course. If every course would enforce a “two strikes your out” type of rule you would see a major improvement. Think about it. The last time you were on a course behind a very slow group. Do you see a marshal around? Rarely you’ll see any marshals enforcing the law.

I have not played SB for a few year but back then the pace of play was 4:30h or lower and if you were slower then that a marshal would give you a fair warning. If he caught you slaking again you were off the course with a weekly rain check that you could use when it was not busy. Are they still doing this?

I like what EC does. You can’t go down to the first tee until the group in front is off the first green. It’s easy then to pinpoint the slow groups.

Mike

[jonf]

i do have to agree that courses are also a big part of the problem. Played Cordova Bay on Friday morning - the starting times were 9 minutes apart, and the starter would not let you tee off until the next group was at the green. The groups were well spaced, and we didn't have to wait for more than about 2 minutes all day - finished in 4 hours and 200 minutes. Played Olympic view later that afternoon. Tee times were about 7 minutes apart - the second the group ahead had hit their second shots, the starter sent us out. I teed off at 330, and finished in the dark at 830 (we only finished because a couple groups ahead of us quit after nine and play sped up - the front 9 took 3 hours). That's the difference between a smaller operation like Cordova Bay, and a course like Olympic View that is owned by Golf BC, who doesn't really care about the quality of the round, as long as they can squeeze in as many 70$ green fees as possible.

[Kilroy]

If I could play CB and OV tomorrow and the next day I would not care if it took 5 hours each. All the better to enjoy the views. I am so jealous.

[jonf]

Yep, it was a nice treat to end the year out here (although my wallet wasn't too happy about it). Its so torturous to live out here with so many beautiful courses nearby, and not have the money or the transport to take advantage. It was just a shame about Olympic View because it is such a gorgeous course and has such an interesting layout, and they insist on bunching tee times together. I will definitely be heading back, but will be booking an earlier tee time. My first round there I had to end the round of my life after 16 as it was pitch black, and it almost happened again.

[Andru]

This debate is anecdotal venting. Untill someone sets up one day and does a study we'll never know exactly why play gets so slow.

The only time I've been involved in a really slow group, golfers losing lots of balls and spending 2-3 min. ( Time observed ) looking for each and every one of them. 10 balls is 20 minutes.

Over reading greens. Waiting to get home in 2. teeing off from the back tees is not the reason things get slow. It's what sets you off on an already slow day but not root cause.

[BullDog]

This debate is anecdotal venting. Untill someone sets up one day and does a study we'll never know exactly why play gets so slow.

...or why you can drive 160km/h as soon as you clear the Kanata hill on the westbound 417 each and every day, regardless of whether a game is on or not. What's so complicated about getting up that hill!?!

[Shivas Irons]

...or why you can drive 160km/h as soon as you clear the Kanata hill on the westbound 417 each and every day, regardless of whether a game is on or not. What's so complicated about getting up that hill!?!

there must be some kind of magnetic vortex? i think maybe the hill is much steeper than it appears, but man is it annoying!

[rancherJ]

proper t-time spacing + marshalls with authority + properly stated course policy for pace of play = 4 hr rounds (give or take 15 min)

[byerxa]

I took my 7 year old daughter to play Stonebridge one afternoon on their good parent and child deal. I figured I'd give it a shot since it would be nice to play something other than a par 3 while playing with my daughter. I was a little nervous about the greens causing her too much problem (I start her at the 150 marker except on shorter holes with elevated tees). Well, we were far from the problem! We waited so much that my daughter was sick of it after 9 holes! I was actually very peeved because what could have turned out to be a really fun time with my kid (she was dealing with the greens fine) was spoiled by people who were playing horribly slow. Now I have a hard time convincing her to come back out to a full size course for this reason. A 7 year old kid can't take the slow play - come on people! If only Stonebridge would maintain its pace of play in the afternoon...

[Law]

proper t-time spacing + marshalls with authority + properly stated course policy for pace of play = 4 hr rounds (give or take 15 min)

Agreed. Played there a few times and the rounds are never much more than 4hrs flat.

[Law]

there must be some kind of magnetic vortex? i think maybe the hill is much steeper than it appears, but man is it annoying!

a little off topic but... it's the pedal on the right people!

[Andru]

...or why you can drive 160km/h as soon as you clear the Kanata hill on the westbound 417 each and every day, regardless of whether a game is on or not. What's so complicated about getting up that hill!?!

That is the golden question. I can't figure tha out either ppl get on the hill and slow down. Really strange indeed.

[sensfan63]

In my opinion, slow play is caused by two things: the influx of golf courses that are most difficult for mid-to-high handicappers, and the reluctance of these players to play tees that are commensurate with their abilities.

For example, I had the opportunity to play a few newer golf courses in the Toronto area last year, including Eagles Nest, Osprey Valley, and Bond Head. Now, for the good golfer, these are run-of-the-mill golf courses and you have just as much chance to play well here as anywhere else. But for the below-average golfer, some of the "new-age" course design characteristics just don't benefit pace of play. Actually, these "new-age" characteristics (tons of fairway bunkers, fairways separated by dunes) are a move BACK into links-style designs, but I digress. Because there are so many new golfers (and thus so many bad golfers) that want to play these courses, it just stands to reason that guys who take more strokes and get into more trouble take longer. Stonebridge has a few holes that I would consider borderline links-style and they definitely give the bad golfer a lot more trouble in proportion to the good golfer.

[byerxa]

In my opinion, slow play is caused by two things: the influx of golf courses that are most difficult for mid-to-high handicappers, and the reluctance of these players to play tees that are commensurate with their abilities.

That is something I am finding more and more prevelant with new courses today. There is rarely a set of tees I like. I can hit the ball not bad, and on a good day I can handle a course even up to the 6800yd range. However, I will rarely play from that distance on a tough course because, frankly, I am not good enough. But I do not want to drop down to 6000 yards - I find it is too short to be fun and the tee boxes are put in stupid places to compensate for the short length. Maybe that's why I like the Marshes - 6500yds from the Blues and not too punishing - just right for me.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I say the players. I have no problem with taking the right amount of time for a shot, untill you have used up your quota for the hole. At that point just get on with it.

[Oasis]

I must say, however frustrating it is to play behind a slow group of golfers, it is equally frustrating to play with people continuously riding you up the #$%^. When me and my buddies play golf we never opt for a cart. Several reasons come to mind. 1. golf is expensive enough as it is without paying the extra for the cart. 2. I actually enjoy the walk. 3. Ever since I started playing I have rarely used a cart and I figure once you start its hard to stop. That being said, me and my friends are not slow golfers and we break 80 on a regular basis. However there is clearly a speed difference between a walker and carter. So when people from behind get angry because we are slowing them down and they are using carts it gets awfully frustrating for us.

On a side note, I played at Le Sorcier a few summers ago where they have clocks at every hole. We fell behind pace by a few minutes and the marshal followed us and chirped us for several holes! Well after paying the price they charge at that course we were in no mood to be rushed. Golf is a difficult game without the extra pressure! We told that marshal where to go pretty quick. Will never be playing there again. I really don't see how pushing people to go faster and faster actually makes them go faster. Probably leads to more duffed shots in my opinion.

Patrick

[BC MIST]

On a side note, I played at Le Sorcier a few summers ago where they have clocks at every hole. We fell behind pace by a few minutes and the marshal followed us and chirped us for several holes! Well after paying the price they charge at that course we were in no mood to be rushed. Golf is a difficult game without the extra pressure! We told that marshal where to go pretty quick. Will never be playing there again. I really don't see how pushing people to go faster and faster actually makes them go faster. Probably leads to more duffed shots in my opinion.Patrick

Since the course is a business, they have every right to expect golfers to complete their rounds in a reasonable time, let's say an average of 15 minutes per hole. (4.5 h) If a group is slower than the established pace and they are a hole behind the group in front, then they should pick it up or let faster groups go through. Because of their pace, all the groups behind obviously have to play slower than expected. If I was a course owner, I would rather lose one group as a customer, than possible losing many others from the groups behind because of the slow play that the one group has caused. Consideration for others may not be fashionable, but it is appreciated.

[PingMCS]

Poor starters letting people tee off less than 8 minutes apart!

Was down in Myrtle Beach last year.
A group of TWENTY ONE people showed up an HOUR late and were all sent to start @ the same time as us.
TWENTY FIVE people total without a starter in sight!

We end up playing with a fast twosome in front of us, are not being pushed from behind by other golfers and our foursome is told on #13 "You need to pick it up and keep up with those ahead of you".

Blasphemy!

[Steelhead]

For the most part slow play is caused by the actual golfer. My biggest complaints about slow play is poor golf etiquette and the TW syndrome. How often do you follow a slow group that speed up purposefully speeds up as you approach them to play through. Also, I often see people hit and their best drives are 210 yards yet they still wait on par 5 while they are 250 yards away. I also find that most Marshalls only drive around instead of actually doing their job. That's enough venting for today!!!

[dH]

I agree for the most part except with the drives. If you can drive 200-260 but average say 220 I'd rathr wait 2 minuts than hit that miracle drive and kill someone Both myself and a friend have had balls come dangerously close already this year. One landed 3-4 feet from my head just dropped. My friend had a drive bounce through his club and his legs!

[Nat Williams]

I am, by definition as slow player when playing seriously.

I will go through a preshot routine that involves usinga range finder, lining up the target, backing off, then approaching the ball and taking my shot. On the putting green I line up all my putts, and stand over the ball for a few extra seconds before firing.

That being said, I will keep a faster pace than almost anyone that I know.

Slow play isn't about ppl taking their time on their shots, it's about people that walk slowly, people that put their bag on the opposite side fo the green and have to walk around every hole ... people that can't leave a ball in the creek, people that stand on a tee waiting for the green to clear, and when it does then they go to the ball washer, then they pick their club etc etc ... get ready while you wait!!!

Slow play is also thanks to people that don't waive groups on, don't ring the damn bell on South 5 @ Manderley (and yes i forget aswell and I'm to blame lol).

Slow play is people that walk w/ their buddy down the left edge while their ball is 3 fairways to the right.

Now, onto the marshals. I should NEVER see back to back twosomes on a busy day. Especially when I was i nthe proshop 10 minutes earlier and saw that we were packed with 4somes. This is 2somes getting paired on the computer, then chosing to break apart on the tee, or on the 2nd hole, and the marshals do nothing...

arrrrgh!

thanks for giving me somewhere to vent LOL

[dpanco]

I can't really blame the hackers. They're new to the game and usually don't know any better.

In my experience, slow play has always been a result of Marshals. I never see them enforce quicker play, even when it's blatantly pathetic. Also, on some courses, you barely even see them at all - Chateau Cartier. Who knows, maybe management is leaning on the marshals not to do anything so that more people can play. It wouldn't be the first time that service is sacrificed for more money

The bottom line to me is that out of many of the courses I've golfed in Ottawa the message is loud and clear "We have your money, talk to someone who cares".