Links 2003

[54Rigger]

What happened to the MS Links Forum ?

[Kilroy]

It was inactive for quite a while, so it was removed. Discuss Links here if you like

[statsfreak]

OK! I have to admit that at one time I was a big fan of this product (Links Golf). Purchased every version, had the complete library of courses, played in several online leagues, and generally got reasonably good at the game.

But a couple of things turned me off the game. First was the lack of real progress in adding to the realism of the game as a golf simulator. Sure they added the power swing as a way of trying to make play a bit more challenging and realistic, but almost no one played it and they also made the click methods easier. Then in an effort to goose up the graphics they took shadows out which reduced the overall realism of the images. They released the architect which allowed you to create your own courses (which in itself was a nice feature) but this resulted in such an explosion of courses (of varying quality as well) that it actually got in the way of online play (you couldn't find others with the same courses or the same version of the course). And finally they constantly ignored users demand for more variable weather, lies, ball types, and any number of other factors which would make it more of a challenge to "think" the game. It still was a chart and click exercise for the most part.

I downloaded the latest version to give it a try and to see if things had changed to the point where I might get back in. Played a couple of 9 hole rounds with the new swing method (not enough admittedly to get over the initial learning curve but enough to understand its characteristics). Other than having the animation synchronized with it (the value of which escapes me since I was looking at the swing bar rather than the animation while swinging) and not having to click, its just a vertical version of the power swing. Whats the big deal? Most will still play the click. The shadows are back but the graphics don't look significantly better in the latest version. And as far as I can tell there are no more variables in the game than there has been in the past.

Gee, I wonder if Links 2004 will have more luck in renewing my interest in the game?

[Kilroy]

Try it on Champ mode, no swing bar.
IMHO RTS is much more realistic than Power Stroke, no "snap" for starters. Choose your poison, they did not remove any of the existing swing types.
With RTS in Champ or elite mode, no chart will help you.
The one thing I have heard is that with RTS, you can do what is called "edging" which is to run the mouse along a straight edge, to achieve a straight shot all the time. That is not good, but you can't win at Links without shaping a few shots per round.
They do now have variable lies. "rough" can be a normal rough lie, or a flier (sitting up in the rough) or a nasty deep lie. Look at the lie indicator, and observe the results.
Ball physics is greatly improved, hit a high ball on a windy day at a tree lined course, and you will observe a drift above the treeline - very cool.
I do think that moving water and birds are needed. The Tiger Woods series has added moving trees, that look very fake, I'd prefer the static photo real course objects over the fake trees.

I think you need to give 2003 a closer look.

BTW... Textures are now 512x512 instead of 256x256. Far more detailed, but it does take a cutting edge video card and anisotropic filtering to really get the most out of it ...

[em69]

That sounds like too much mumbo jumbo....
Why can't you just play the game for what it is...a game. If you want it more realistic then go play outside.
Personnally I don't really believe the game needed improvements, I think the graphics are great just the way they are. Some of the courses which people are designing are far superior then anything Microsoft has produced...and I really don't find it difficult to find people who have similar courses. Play only top rated courses and you won't have problems. As an example, everybody picked up Ottawa's Great 18.

You use a chart??? Try playing without the chart as a start. Charts are almost cheating...how are you supposed to learn.
You can't honestly tell me that the click method is easy unless of course you are shooting -18, which I highly doubt.

In my opinion, I find Links LS is even more enjoyable than playing at the indoor golf simulators. You don't hear the wacking on the movie screen from the ball, my computer at home never crashes, I have a much better selection of courses, I'm in the comfort of my own home and I don't have to worry about driving.

Links LS is a game and in my opionion not a simulator.

[54Rigger]

Whoops, I started a Thread.

Well I bought LS2003 last week and I've been entranced ever since. RTS is fantastic especially in Champ mode, and it just might make online play fun again. I was getting a little tired of playing online and getting beat by guys who were shooting 11-15 under at Augusta National, with windy conditions and hard and fast greens no less.

Once you've developed the skills to play (i.e. a swing , a putting stroke and some specialty shots) Golf is all about risk vs. reward management. A good game of golf is one that makes you concentrate on the fundamentals while shooting, and makes you think about course management the rest of the time. I think LS 2003 can do the same thing in a simulation environment.

As for textures, graphics , and all that typically computer sim whining, I can only say this. I used to rant for hours about the inept Flight simulators, and was constantly suggesting areas for improvement to any developer that would listen. I started Flying for real about 2 years ago and now I realize that simulations will only ever be just that, there's no substitute for reality. Golf is a lot cheaper than flying so if absolute reality is what I want, I'll scoot out to the course and take in a round. I've usually had a bit too much reality after 18 holes

On my computer I can pretend I'm 2 back on Sunday afternoon at the Masters, and that's probably as close as I'll ever get to Augusta National. But it'll do

Neil

[statsfreak]

Thanks Dan. Maybe I do need to take a second look. The downloaded trial version certainly didn't have the "lie" features you were mentioning, and I have to admit that I only played in the easiest version of the new swing method (no point in punishing myself I thought). That, and your images of the textures with the anisotropic filtering, suggests that some of the points I was complaining about have been addressed.

Gee, I'll have to go back and see if I said I used charts! Fact of the matter is I didn't, but the click method simply lent itself to such an extensive use of them that online games with someone who did use them would take forever while they tried to factor in every possible variable which was included into the chart. I would find myself sitting around waiting for the opponent to play their shot. If the new swing method, without the power bar, results in more instinct being required for the shot then I am all for it.

I know its just a game, but as with all "simulator" products users are always looking for ways to model the "real thing" as closely as the 2D virtual environment will allow. In my mind that means that since the physical aspects of golf are not there, what should be required is to think through how the lie, wind, surface speed, etc. will effect the shot. Dan has indicated that more of that has been built in, so it does sound as if its worth a second look.