Ryder Cup

[jimrobin]

Kinda dead in here lately so here goes.

After watching the Ryder Cup, what are some people's thoughts?
Ex. Curtis Strange's decision to back load the single matches, Sam Torrance's front load, Sergio's celebrations, the crowd behavior, the 10th hole, Zinger's bunker shot, etc. Talk about whatever you like.

We all know it’s easy to 2nd guess now the competition is over.
So I'm giving the thoughts I had before Monty & Hoch teed off.

Myself, I didn't like either captain's decision. Sam took quite a gamble (although it did pay off) and Curtis was too conservative. I think you have to mix it up a little. Keeping both Tiger & Mickelson till the end was too conservative. You need some strength at the top to start to get momentum and keep one at the end in case you need him. Man, the thing might be over before you even get to those matches with the world's #1 & 2 players.

Sam I thought took too much of a gamble. He better hope Monty, Sergio, Langer wins cause if they don't, the wind certainly will be gone out of Europe's sails and you can kiss the competition good-bye.

Today's thoughts:
Sam Torrance has balls.
You can see the confidence he must of had in Monty, Sergio, & Langer to top load the line-up the way he did.
Congrats! To Europe they played well & deserve the Ryder Cup.

[golfdoc]

The fact is, even if Tiger and Phil had gone first, they might have lost anyways. Then the US would have been left with their so-called weaker players at the end and trailing Europe.

Bottom line is, it is up to the players. Europe played better and deserved to win. Mickelson lost to a so-called nobody so why do the Americans think if he was at the top of the order he would have won?

I feel bad for Curtis Strange because no matter what he decided, he would have been criticized when they lost.

Europe played better and won. That's it, that's all. And they celebrate better also. I can't picture David Duval and Davis Love and David Toms throwing back pint after pint like the Brits!!!

[NoBack]

My thoughts about the Ryder Cup?

Thought the US has always been more arragant than the Europeans.

I just dont see the US Team making this about team play and just about bragging rights. They are too singles minded that it back fired again this year. And to boot........ they want to get paid??? For what???? Playing a game they say they love???

Hats off to the Europeans....they did play better!!!

Just a few thoughts.

[Chris]

I agree, the Europeans simply played better. The US long ball hitters were unmatched against the Euro's accuracy! Monty was brilliant on the green.. and Price the unknown shutting out Mickleson!

I also think that getting the momentum going in early rounds was crucial. I also think that Europe had more spirit and exuberance than the US because of it. They played as a team! I found myself feeling pity for the US at one point watching their #1 & 2 struggle against the less rated European rookies.

As for criticizing Sergio for his celebrations. The US cannot criticize him. Look at how they re-acted in 99 when Justin Lenard made that 70 footer. The whole US team where hugging each other, jumping all over the place while Olazabal still had his putt left!

Anyway it was a nail biter and the US was taken to the mat in this year's Ryder Cup singles. They played well but Europe played better.

[GarthM]

Not only was Sergio more contained (somewhat) than the US team 3 years ago, but the fans in general were, well what they are supposed to be... golf fans, not wrestling fans (no offense intended to ANYONE out there, but golf fans are not supposed to taunt, tease and harass the "other team" ).

Cudos to the thousands of fans throughout the weekend who reacted as they should (loudly at times) yet kept their manners in check throughout.

And Congrats to Europe on their win!! I was pulling for them all the way! Nice to see them on top for a change as in my opinion they are better all-around golfers.

My 2 cents..

[PriorGuy]

It was interesting to see Davis love's reaction to Sergio running out and Congratulating Pierre Fulke. Does he forget how the whole team ran out on the green to congratulate Justin Leonard after he made that putt in the last Ryder Cup?? They walked all over the other guy's line and in that case the remaining putt still meant something. Davis was never one of my favorite golfers and this doesn't do anything for his popularity in my mind.
Way to Go Europe!!! Always good to see underdogs do well.

[NoBack]

Its great to see the Europeans work and play as a team.

Im sure after the great golf on sunday, they all had lots of beer as a team. Would love to have seen Torrance and Westwood putting them back. Even the Shtick would be proud.

Even had the Americans won I would imagine half the team would be on the way home in their private jets...........

PriorGuy....... welcome to the forum

[Andy4Par]

I too was disappointed with the American teams loss, but I think I was more angry that the players did nothing to bond as a team. It looked like most, not all, American players were not trying to win. Some(Tiger and Mickelson) looked rather bored to be there. I also beleive that Strange was not the leader that team needed in order to prevail. Strange has always been weird. He speaks before he thinks, and that could have rubbed some of the players the wrong way...when he publicly stated that his team was getting their butts whipped because they played poorly is not the best motivation or support. Strange should also have made the team wear team colours every day. I would like to see Azinger or maybe Fred Couples captain the team in 2004. One last thing, can anybody tell me why if what the media says is true that Tiger or a few others would rather not play the Ryder Cup event, Why were they asked in the first place?

[jimrobin]

Whether he wants to or not, he knows he has to play or his popularity will just fall off the earth. Not playing would mean a huge decline in appearance fees, advertising, endorsements, $$$, etc. The reason those greedy Americans don't want to play is that they are not getting paid for it. Three years ago David Duval was one of the outspoken guys claiming that they should be paid. That's one reason I think they don't want to play in it, the other is the travel. Next year the President's Cup is in South Africa (I believe) and they have already started complaining about that. They love the competition it’s the money and the travel. Look at Wood's comments about WGC vs. Ryder Cup its all about the money. One has a cash prize, the other doesn't.

Woods was never really asked to play; those guys are expected to play once they make the team. Only 2 guys are asked, they are the 2 captain's picks.

Even the RCGA is trying to bring the President's Cup to the Bue course at the Royal Montreal in the future. They are hoping this will help the Americans smile because of the short distance of not having to cross the pond.

[mr shank]

I'm not ashamed to admit I was pulling for the Americans, but they just got beaten by a team that played better that weekend.

Interestingly nobody has mentioned the putt that Tiger conceded at the end of his match. It's true the outcome didn't matter, but regardless of what you think of Tiger or the other "greedy" Americans, that was a class move.

And as far as the Euros complaining about the US team running accross the green after Leonards putt last Ryder Cup - that's just sour grapes - anyone remember how the Euros celebrated in the previous Ryder Cup? Apparently not.

[golfdoc]

If I'm not mistaken, Sergio did not run down the fairway during the match. The competition was over. The remaining matches were meaningless.

The American were outplayed and outclassed. They complained about the short course and whatever else they could.

The 10th hole is a great example of the entire week. The Europeans were playing to win. The Americans were trying not to lose. There is a huge difference. Tiger, the best player in the world, wimped out and never tried to drive the green. He was afraid of missing.

[mr shank]

The incident I am refering to is the last time the Euros won the Ryder Cup before this year. They were doing swan dives into a pond about 20 yards away from a tee box Scott Hoch was teeing off on.
The Americans did not cry & whine about that the way the Euros did when Leonard sank that 70 foot putt.

Americans were outplayed yes, but outclassed? Hardly. You want to see a golfer with no class look no further than Padraig Harrington.

When the Cup is contested on U.S. soil, and they are playing on a course that is in excess of 7000 yards, the Euros will be ready to pack their bags by Saturday night.

Golfdoc - how is it you can tell that Tiger was not playing to win? Was it the look in his eyes? I guess I wasn't watching close enough, but to me, it appeared every player out there was trying to win.

[spidey]

I think they all wanted to win. All the Americans, and All the Europeans. I was watching Mickelson, and he lost but not only because of his bad play. He knocked a lot of balls stiff for birdie... and somehow, Price managed to knock it in tight with him.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If the course was so short, then what stops the Americans from having an edge? No matter how short the course is the longer hitter still has an advantage. Examples are specifically par 5's and 3's. On a par 3 180 yds, Euros might be hitting 6 irons, Yanks might be hitting 8 irons. I'd rather be hitting the shorter club. Par 5's, drive and a 4 iron for the Euros on a short par 5, drive and an 8 iron for the americans.... either way, I'd give the advantage to the yanks on a short course.... well... advantage to anybody who hits it long.

Many years ago the cup belonged to the Americans. Part of this was because the population base of America was much larger than the population base of the British. When the British team expanded to the European team, a good part of that advantage disappeared. Now, at the highest level... especially in match play... it's more an issue of who's on for the day, than who's the best long term golfer.

Hooray for the Europeans, who value their wins not only for the significance of beating the Americans but mainly for using it as an opportunity to build cameraderie and team spirit. During the last Ryder Cup, Duval and others were challenged on their lack of team spirit, and used it as a focal point to prove themselves, and they came through. Nobody stepped up to the plate and led in that department this year for the Americans... the loss was inevitable from early on in the proceedings. I cheered for the yanks, but I'm much more impressed by the Europeans.

[golfdoc]

Mr Shank,

My point is that the Americans (not all) were playing "not to lose".
They were not aggressive enough. if you are confident and trying to win, you are aggressive and risky.

Yes the Americans wanted to win. Did they do everything they could to win? I don't think so.

I am not familiar with the celebrations you are referring to. If the Europeans dove into a pond when the result was still up in the air, then that is not fair. If Hoch was teeing off but the result was decided, then Hooray for them and they can celebrate any way they want.

I don't believe it is classy for the Americans to complain about the "short course". Both teams have to play the same course.

It sounds like the Americans would like 480 yard par 4's with fairways wider than football fields so they can do their long drive contests. By complaining about the length or lack of it, the Americasns are simply emphasizing their weaknesses.

Smart accurate golf was required and Europe won.

[jimrobin]

First I guess I owe an apology to the Americans for a comment I made earlier this week. I was corrected last night by a friend who informed me that yes the Americans do want to be paid for their Ryder Cup appearances but as they stated, it is not for themselves, but to give to their local charities. The players feel that someone is making some huge bucks over this thing through ticket sales, concessions, TV revenue, etc. and they want a piece of the pie.

I guess if they are willing to give the money to charities of their choice, I agree with them.

If it is for their own personal pockets I don’t agree. They are representing their country and it should be considered an honor not a job.

Then, I feel the two Golf Federations who I’d imagine are the ones making all this money, should give money back to charities, junior golf programs, etc.

[Kilroy]

Originally posted by jimrobin
Americans do want to be paid for their Ryder Cup appearances but as they stated, it is not for themselves, but to give to their local charities.

Sorry to burst your bubble here, but...
The Americans wanted to be paid, because as you say mega bucks are being made. The Euros and the public got very upset about that, so they did what is known as "backpedaling" and claimed that hey wanted money for charity, which they got. They certainly would have rather kept it themselves.

Some call it greed, but I agree with the US players... if corporations are making buckets o cash off their talent, they deserve some of it for themselves. Why do people get so outraged when someone wants to be paid? Is there something wrong with making some money?

I thought Sergio had really big kahonies being first to go for #10

[jimrobin]

I just feel that there is enough oppourtunity for those players to make money throughout the year, that this is something for their country. Its like the NHL players @ the Olympics or the Canada/World Cup in hockey. Do you think they should be paid for that?
I personally feel that players/golfers should take that one tournament per year and give back to their roots/charities.
At these events they should be honoured to represent their country, and do it without padding their pockets. I personnally don't think people need to get paid for something everytime they turn around.

Am I right, am I wrong? Its all a personal opinion.

But like I said earlier, if they (the golfers) are not getting paid, I don't think big corporations should be making money off these events either. And we all know that this is probably the way it is.
But that doesn't make it right!!!!

These events should be used to aid in worthy charities and junior delevopment, to make these events better in the future. I would like to see them made into charity, or junior development events.

Dan, I agree with you, if the corporations are making money off these events then yes the players should get their piece of the pie. These players are corportations themselves.

And yes before someone trys to remind me, I already know the PGA, NHL, MLB, etc. all give thousands of dollars to charties throughout the year.

Just my $0.02 and I know its wishful thinking.